The gift of tongues

DeborahG.

Member
Mar 24, 2019
15
24
55
Tri-Cities
✟8,675.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
The gift of tongues is different than a prayer language. The gift of tongues always is followed by an interpretation. They actually do sound quiet different as well. This is one of those gifts that many religious people disregard. However, it’s quite real...just a real as the gift of healing.
What are your thoughts on the gift of tongues?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dave-W

salt-n-light

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 8, 2017
2,607
2,526
32
Rosedale
✟165,859.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Celibate
The gift of tongues is different than a prayer language. The gift of tongues always is followed by an interpretation. They actually do sound quiet different as well. This is one of those gifts that many religious people disregard. However, it’s quite real...just a real as the gift of healing.
What are your thoughts on the gift of tongues?

gift of tongues=linguist
they can speak multiple languages, which is why you would need a translator.
Its like speaking french in front of cubans, you need to have someone translate so that people understand what you are saying.
 
Upvote 0

Dave-W

Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner!
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2014
30,521
16,866
Maryland - just north of D.C.
Visit site
✟771,800.00
Country
United States
Faith
Messianic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
gift of tongues=linguist
they can speak multiple languages, which is why you would need a translator.
Its like speaking french in front of cubans, you need to have someone translate so that people understand what you are saying.
That is a human skill, not a supernatural gift.

The gift of tongues is a supernatural empowerment from the Holy Spirit and has nothing to do with human skills.
 
Upvote 0

salt-n-light

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 8, 2017
2,607
2,526
32
Rosedale
✟165,859.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Celibate
That is a human skill, not a supernatural gift.

The gift of tongues is a supernatural empowerment from the Holy Spirit and has nothing to do with human skills.

Being mindful that the rules of this forum doesn’t encourage debates, we will agree to disagree.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DeborahG.
Upvote 0

Ttalkkugjil

Social Pastor
Mar 6, 2019
1,680
908
Suwon
✟34,572.00
Country
Korea, Republic Of
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
CA-Others
The gift of tongues is of secondary value. The speaker's fruit"s found in the hearer's profit.

If a person gets up in service and prays with the utterance of this gift, their own spirit has the benefit of feeling itself the Spirit's instrument, but all the other people present have no benefit whatsoever from their praying, because there's no contact point between them, they can't grasp the speaker, unless they also interpret their utterances.

The utterances which were given to the apostle to articulate he wanted to make accessible also to his hearers, whether they were in prayer or in chants. To do this, it was needed that he bring out the content of the speaking with tongues in common speech.

The hearer can't be reached without interpretation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DeborahG.
Upvote 0

1stcenturylady

Spirit-filled follower of Christ
Site Supporter
Feb 13, 2017
11,189
4,193
76
Tennessee
✟431,122.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-Republican
The gift of tongues is different than a prayer language. The gift of tongues always is followed by an interpretation. They actually do sound quiet different as well. This is one of those gifts that many religious people disregard. However, it’s quite real...just a real as the gift of healing.
What are your thoughts on the gift of tongues?

Yes, I agree. Whereas our prayer language is given to ALL who believe and are baptized during the New Covenant, the gift of tongues of 1 Corinthians 12 are given only to a few in a congregation to receive messages from God as in 1 Corinthians 14:6, but must remain quiet if the known person that gives interpretations is not present. The gifts are like "offices" in a church with a certain amount of extra authority.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DeborahG.
Upvote 0

Mathetes66

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 24, 2019
1,031
867
Pacifc Northwest
✟90,217.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
"The gift of tongues is different than a prayer language. The gift of tongues always is followed by an interpretation. They actually do sound quiet different as well. This is one of those gifts that many religious people disregard. However, it’s quite real...just a real as the gift of healing. What are your thoughts on the gift of tongues?"

I Cor 12:1ff Now about spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be UNINFORMED. There are different gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different ministries, but the same Lord.

There are different ways of working, but the same God works all things in all men. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.

TO ONE there is given through the Spirit the word of wisdom, TO ANOTHER the word of knowledge by the same Spirit, to another...to another...All these are the work of one & the same Spirit, who apportions them TO EACH ONE AS HE DETERMINES.

But in fact, God has arranged the members of the body, every one of them, according to His design. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

Now you are the body of Christ & each of you is a member of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, and those with gifts of healing, helping, administration, and various tongues.

Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? But eagerly desire the better gifts. I will yet show you a still more excellent (far more excelling) way.

"Do all speak in tongues?" It is rhetorical in nature & the answer is: no, not all members of the body speak in tongues. Notice Scripture does not say 'gift of tongues' but it specifically says 'speak in tongues', whether out loud or in private to God in prayer while SEATED in the assembly of saints; they are still SPEAKING. That is the point the Apostle Paul is making.

'If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would NOT make it any less a part of the body.'

'The eye CANNOT say to the hand, “I do not need you.'

'If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be?...

"If they were all one part, where would the body be?" As it is, there are many parts, but one body...

Now if the whole church GATHERS in the same place & everyone is speaking in other tongues (foreign languages or dialects), when uneducated people or unbelievers COME IN, will they not say you are mad (crazy)?"

The rhetorical questions in I Cor 12 & 14 above answer themselves. It is evident that if a member of the body does not have a certain gift based on the Spirit's DETERMINATION & utterance, that doesn't make them a LESSER part of the body, less spiritual somehow.

Or that they are not part of the body at all, that they are not saved if they don't speak in tongues when baptized in the Spirit or speak in a private prayer language.

The one speaking in tongues cannot say to the member not speaking in tongues that we have no need of you or you are not part of the body of Christ.

I have been castigated by some Charismatics that I am not spiritual if I don't speak in tongues or pray in a prayer language; or that I am not saved if I don't evidence the baptism of the Spirit by speaking in tongues; or that I am missing out on a 'second' blessing, when God promised only one blessing in the Abrahamic covenant, not two; and some I won't even mention.

When this occurs, schisms are formed, divisiveness is in the body & love & concern are gone. The fruit of the Spirit is LOVE... Where these occur the Spirit is being grieved & quenched & not actively involved. Thus what is occurring is not Spirit generated or determined but man determined.

To balance this, I have wonderful MATURE Charismatic close relatives & brethren, who do none of the above & we love each other in Christ & have ministered together. We are equal members in the body of Christ & family.

Also there are brethren on the other side of the aisle, that would castigate me for thinking all the gifts are available today as the Spirit gives the utterance. Again those who are mature loving Christians don't do that.

“In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.” Rupertus Meldenius

I Cor 1:20-22 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the THE SAME THING (agree with one another in what you say) & that there be NO divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined (knit) together in the SAME MIND & {perfectly joined together} in the SAME JUDGMENT (discernment).

'But God has composed the body & has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no schism (division) in the body, but that its members should have the SAME concern for one another.'

You ask, "What are my thoughts on the gift of tongues?"

My thoughts are on the Scriptural passages that mention speaking in tongues: Acts 2, 10,19; Mark 16:17; I Cor 12-14.

In the other passages where spiritual gifts are mentioned & exercised in the assembly of believers (I Pet 4; Romans 12; I Cor 7:7), there is no mention of the gift of tongues nor interpretation of tongues. These epistles, other than I Cor 7:7 on the gift of celibacy, were written later in time than I Corinthians.

Rom 12:3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. For as in one body we have many members & the members do not all have the same function, so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

I Pet 4:10,11 As each has received a gift, use it to serve one another, as good stewards of God’s varied grace.

Thus, as I understand Scripture in its plainness, not all members have this particular gift. Tongues is in the plural, meaning that there are more than one language as part of this gift, not just one, like is seen in Acts 2:7-11. There is not one private prayer language in the singular; it does not match what Scripture says.

This is also shown in I Cor 14:27,28.

If anyone speaks in a tongue, two, or at most three, should speak IN TURN & someone MUST interpret. But if there is no interpreter, he should remain silent IN THE CHURCH & speak only to himself & God.

To have no confusion in the assembly, up to three were to speak in tongues & they must be interpreted. Here is where I agree with you on your initial posting. Must is in the emphatic in the Greek. And by the way, the verb interpret is the Greek word, 'hermeneian' from which we get hermeneutics in the English.

But the question naturally arises: how do the ones speaking in tongues KNOW that there is people there who can interpret them?

In other words, if they do speak in tongues & there is no interpreter, then they are out of order & creating confusion since God is not the author of confusion. They are not edifying or building up the church, the members of the Christian assembly. So how does one know?

One doesn't. Why? Because when they speak in tongues, this is something that the Spirit of God does through them. It is not something they arbitrarily decide to do or manufacture; it is determined by the Holy Spirit as 'He gives utterance.'

The Spirit KNOWS there are interpreters in the Christian assembly, because He had gifted them & determined ahead of time that they will give utterance as He leads them. Therefore if He chooses to have someone speak in tongues in the assembly, He knows that He will also choose those to interpret those tongues.

I have talked to someone before who interpreted someone speaking in tongues. They were visiting in that Christian assembly that I was in & He verified the language spoken because he knew it & gave the interpretation of what was spoken. But he didn't know ahead of time that speaking in tongues was to occur nor that he would be the interpreter. The same thing occurred at Pentecost in Acts 2.

There is another vitally important reason why no tongues are to be spoken out loud if there is no interpreter. That is one of the MUSTS. Yet there is another 'must' that is also in the emphatic.

I Cor 14:26 What then shall we say, brethren? When you COME TOGETHER (ASSEMBLE), each one has a psalm or a teaching, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. All of these MUST BE DONE TO BUILD UP (EDIFY) THE CHURCH ('ekklesia' the assembly).

In other words, all those things listed, including speaking in tongues & interpreting them, must be done to edify & build up the church assembled. When assembled, speaking in tongues must be interpreted so the body of Christ can be edified.

That is another reason why someone remains silent, because there is no one to interpret the foreign language & what it means. Thus no one in the assembly gets built up because they can't understand it, to give an amen.

Since Acts 2 is one of the passages that talks about speaking in tongues, I would like to examine closely what is actually said there.

'began to speak with OTHER tongues': other languages that were not native to them nor were learned; different from their own native tongue. They were recognized as Galileans but were certainly not speaking at all like a Galilean!

'as the Spirit gave them utterance': this was NOT something they were looking for or expecting or had practiced until it suddenly flowed from their mouth. It was suddenly done as the Spirit determined & at that ideal time & location. Jesus told them to wait until power on high would come.

'from every nation (ethnos) under heaven': these were the scattered Jews of the Diaspora--God had scattered them to all the Gentile nations, such as James & Peter wrote to in their epistles.

Josephus, the Jewish historian wrote: (Bell., Acts 2:16,) “there was not a people upon earth who had not Jews inhabiting among them..."

These tongues, as most Greek scholars attest, were languages that weren't native to the speakers; i.e, they were not learned languages. And most recognized the speakers were Galilean.

Yet what was coming out of their mouths was not Galilean Aramaic but their actual native dialect of their own nation, as if they were speaking like a native born resident. Not wonder they were confounded & confused. How could this be?

'now when this was NOISED (sounded) abroad (rang out)': the Greek word here is 'phones' where we get phonetic. These native speakers were hearing their native dialect ringing out loudly.

No WONDER they came running to see what was going on, as a native born speaker was telling them in their own dialect, of the mighty acts of God. And as the crowd gathered, this would be amazing & astounding. One would expect someone to speak in Greek or Aramaic & one speaker at a time, which was the normal thing expected.

'the multitude...were confounded {confused, bewildered}, because every man heard them speak in HIS OWN LANGUAGE': here the Greek word is not 'glossa', tongue, but the Greek word 'dialekto', literally dialect. That would get my attention quickly!

And the other amazing thing is the word 'speak' is in the middle voice in the Greek, meaning that this was something that they were acting upon themselves. (I--myself) In other words, the subject is both the cause & the focus, the agent & experiencer, of a verbal action.

You can imagine people in the crowd talking to each other in the vernacular common language of Aramaic, the very dialect & accent that they expected those at Pentecost to speak in.

I can see them saying that this was bewildering because we are hearing them speak in our own native born peculiar dialect, sounding just like us who were born learning our dialect & yet they are Galilean! How in the world is this possible?

And to make it more stunning, the verb 'speak' in the Greek is in the imperfect tense, meaning the action happened & continued to happen for awhile. In other words, this kept on going for awhile; it wasn't a short burst of speech & then stopped.

'In his own language or dialect' stands as an equivalent for the "tongue" in Acts 2:11; it was used for a dialect, in the modern sense of the term, as well as for a distinct language. The same word is used in Acts 1:19.

YLT "...And it {Judas' hanging) became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem, insomuch that that place is called, in THEIR PROPER DIALECT (own language), 'Aceldama', that is, field of blood." (to be continued)
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

MariaJLM

Crazy Cat Lady
Aug 1, 2018
1,117
1,475
33
Calgary
✟50,815.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
CA-Others
gift of tongues=linguist
they can speak multiple languages, which is why you would need a translator.
Its like speaking french in front of cubans, you need to have someone translate so that people understand what you are saying.

Exactly. Speaking in tongues is not gibberish, but being able to speak multiple languages. This was granted to the Apostles so they could preach to people everywhere.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: salt-n-light
Upvote 0

DeborahG.

Member
Mar 24, 2019
15
24
55
Tri-Cities
✟8,675.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
I Cor 12:1ff Now about spiritual gifts, brethren, I do not want you to be UNINFORMED. There are different gifts, but the same Spirit. There are different ministries, but the same Lord.

There are different ways of working, but the same God works all things in all men. Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good.

TO ONE there is given through the Spirit the word of wisdom, TO ANOTHER the word of knowledge by the same Spirit, to another...to another...All these are the work of one & the same Spirit, who apportions them TO EACH ONE AS HE DETERMINES.

But in fact, God has arranged the members of the body, every one of them, according to His design. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body.

Now you are the body of Christ & each of you is a member of it. And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, and those with gifts of healing, helping, administration, and various tongues.

Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? But eagerly desire the better gifts. I will yet show you a still more excellent (far more excelling) way.

"Do all speak in tongues?" It is rhetorical in nature & the answer is: no, not all members of the body speak in tongues, whether out loud or in private to God in prayer while seated in the assembly of saints; they are still SPEAKING. That is the point the Apostle Paul is making.

'If the foot should say, “Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,” that would NOT make it any less a part of the body.'

'The eye CANNOT say to the hand, “I do not need you.'

'If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be?...

"If they were all one part, where would the body be?" As it is, there are many parts, but one body...

Now if the whole church GATHERS in the same place & everyone is speaking in other tongues (foreign languages), when uneducated people or unbelievers COME IN, will they not say you're mad?"

The rhetorical questions in I Cor 12 & 14 answer themselves. It is evident that if a member of the body does not have a certain gift based on the Spirit's DETERMINATION & utterance, that doesn't make them a LESSER part of the body, less spiritual somehow. Or that they are not part of the body at all, that they are not saved if they don't speak in tongues or speak in a private prayer language.

The one speaking in tongues cannot say to the member not speaking in tongues that we have no need of you or you are not part of the body of Christ.

I have been castigated by some Charismatics that I am not spiritual if I don't speak in tongues or pray in a prayer language; or that I am not saved if I don't evidence the baptism of the Spirit by speaking in tongues; or that I am missing out on a 'second' blessing, when God promised only one blessing in the Abrahamic covenant, not two; and some I won't even mention.

When this occurs, schisms are formed, divisiveness is in the body & love & concern are gone. The fruit of the Spirit is LOVE... Where these occur the Spirit is being grieved & quenched & not actively involved. Thus what is occurring is not Spirit generated or determined but man determined.

To balance this, I have wonderful MATURE Charismatic close relatives & brethren, who do none of the above & we love each other in Christ & have ministered together. We are equal members in the body of Christ & family.

Also there are brethren on the other side of the aisle, that would castigate me for thinking all the gifts are available today as the Spirit gives the utterance. Again those who are mature loving Christians don't do that.

“In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, charity.” Rupertus Meldenius

I Cor 1:20-22 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the THE SAME THING (agree with one another in what you say) & that there be NO divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined (knit) together in the SAME MIND & {perfectly joined together} in the SAME JUDGMENT (discernment).

'But God has composed the body & has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no schism (division) in the body, but that its members should have the SAME concern for one another.'



My thoughts are on the Scriptural passages that mention speaking in tongues: Acts 2, 10,19; Mark 16:17; I Cor 12-14.

In the other passages where spiritual gifts are mentioned & exercised in the assembly of believers (I Pet 4; Romans 12; I Cor 7:7), there is no mention of the gift of tongues nor interpretation of tongues. These epistles, other than I Cor 7:7 on the gift of celibacy, were written later in time than I Corinthians.

Rom 12:3 For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. For as in one body we have many members & the members do not all have the same function, so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

I Pet 4:10,11 As each has received a gift, use it to serve one another, as good stewards of God’s varied grace.

Thus, as I understand Scripture in its plainness, not all members have this particular gift. Tongues is in the plural, meaning that there are more than one language as part of this gift, not just one, like is seen in Acts 2:7-11. There is not one private prayer language in the singular; it does not match what Scripture says.

This is also shown in I Cor 14:27,28.

If anyone speaks in a tongue, two, or at most three, should speak IN TURN & someone MUST interpret. But if there is no interpreter, he should remain silent IN THE CHURCH & speak only to himself & God.

To have no confusion in the assembly, up to three were to speak in tongues & they must be interpreted. Here is where I agree with you on your initial posting. Must is in the emphatic in the Greek. And by the way, the verb interpret is the Greek word, 'hermeneian' from which we get hermeneutics in the English.

But the question naturally arises: how do the ones speaking in tongues KNOW that there is people there who can interpret them?

In other words, if they do speak in tongues & there is no interpreter, then they are out of order & creating confusion since God is not the author of confusion. They are not edifying or building up the church, the members of the Christian assembly. So how does one know?

One doesn't. Why? Because when they speak in tongues, this is something that the Spirit of God does through them. It is not something they arbitrarily decide to do or manufacture; it is determined by the Holy Spirit as 'He gives utterance.'

The Spirit KNOWS there are interpreters in the Christian assembly, because He had gifted them & determined ahead of time that they will give utterance as He leads them. Therefore if He chooses to have someone speak in tongues in the assembly, He knows that He will also choose those to interpret those tongues.

I have talked to someone before who interpreted someone speaking in tongues. They were visiting in that Christian assembly that I was in & He verified the language spoken because he knew it & gave the interpretation of what was spoken. But he didn't know ahead of time that speaking in tongues was to occur nor that he would be the interpreter. The same thing occurred at Pentecost in Acts 2.

There is another vitally important reason why no tongues are to be spoken out loud if there is no interpreter. That is one of the MUSTS. Yet there is another 'must' that is also in the emphatic.

I Cor 14:26 What then shall we say, brethren? When you COME TOGETHER (ASSEMBLE), each one has a psalm or a teaching, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. All of these MUST BE DONE TO BUILD UP (EDIFY) THE CHURCH ('ekklesia' the assembly).

In other words, all those things listed, including speaking in tongues & interpreting them, must be done to edify & build up the church assembled. When assembled, speaking in tongues must be interpreted so the body of Christ can be edified.

That is another reason why someone remains silent, because there is no one to interpret the foreign language & what it means. Thus no one in the assembly gets built up because they can't understand it, to give an amen.

Since Acts 2 is one of the passages that talks about speaking in tongues, I would like to examine closely what is actually said there.

'began to speak with OTHER tongues': other languages that were not native to them nor were learned; different from their own native tongue. They were recognized as Galileans but were certainly not speaking at all like a Galilean!

'as the Spirit gave them utterance': this was NOT something they were looking for or expecting or had practiced until it suddenly flowed from their mouth. It was suddenly done as the Spirit determined & at that ideal time & location. Jesus told them to wait until power on high would come.

'from every nation (ethnos) under heaven': these were the scattered Jews of the Diaspora--God had scattered them to all the Gentile nations, such as James & Peter wrote to in their epistles.

Josephus, the Jewish historian wrote: (Bell., Acts 2:16,) “there was not a people upon earth who had not Jews inhabiting among them..."

These tongues, as most Greek scholars attest, were languages that weren't native to the speakers; i.e, they were not learned languages. And most recognized the speakers were Galilean.

Yet what was coming out of their mouths was not Galilean Aramaic but their actual native dialect of their own nation, as if they were speaking like a native born resident. Not wonder they were confounded & confused. How could this be?

'now when this was NOISED (sounded) abroad (rang out)': the Greek word here is 'phones' where we get phonetic. These native speakers were hearing their native dialect ringing out loudly.

No WONDER they came running to see what was going on, as a native born speaker was telling them in their own dialect, of the mighty acts of God. And as the crowd gathered, this would be amazing & astounding. One would expect someone to speak in Greek or Aramaic & one speaker at a time, which was the normal thing expected.

'the multitude...were confounded {confused, bewildered}, because every man heard them speak in HIS OWN LANGUAGE': here the Greek word is not 'glossa', tongue, but the Greek word 'dialekto', literally dialect. That would get my attention quickly!

And the other amazing thing is the word 'speak' is in the middle voice in the Greek, meaning that this was something that they were acting upon themselves. (I--myself) In other words, the subject is both the cause & the focus, the agent & experiencer, of a verbal action.

You can imagine people in the crowd talking to each other in the vernacular common language of Aramaic, the very dialect & accent that they expected those at Pentecost to speak in.

I can see them saying that this was bewildering because we are hearing them speak in our own native born peculiar dialect, sounding just like us who were born learning our dialect & yet they are Galilean! How in the world is this possible?

And to make it more stunning, the verb 'speak' in the Greek is in the imperfect tense, meaning the action happened & continued to happen for awhile. In other words, this kept on going for awhile; it wasn't a short burst of speech & then stopped.

'In his own language or dialect' stands as an equivalent for the "tongue" in Acts 2:11; it was used for a dialect, in the modern sense of the term, as well as for a distinct language. The same word is used in Acts 1:19.

YLT "...And it {Judas' hanging) became known to all those dwelling in Jerusalem, insomuch that that place is called, in THEIR PROPER DIALECT (own language), 'Aceldama', that is, field of blood." (to be continued)
Wow...that was a lot. Lol.
 
Upvote 0

Mathetes66

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 24, 2019
1,031
867
Pacifc Northwest
✟90,217.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Yes, when I am seeking to understand the Scriptures by the illumination of the Spirit, I am amazed what I discover in the study of the Word & in the revelation the Spirit gives & can get so excited.

I am humbled by what He shows that I often find myself saying who am I that I should have God show me these things. Usually I am like the disciples, who are slow of heart to believe the prophets & all that is said. The longer I study the more I see that I have only scratched the surface.

I am blessed to be retired now and single, so I more time to do what I have always enjoyed--hearing from the Lord in His Word, understanding not only what is said but the ways God operates in Scripture & my life & others.

I can relate to the Psalmist: 'Oh how I love They law, it is my meditation all the day (and night lol). Open my eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of Thy law.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Mathetes66

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 24, 2019
1,031
867
Pacifc Northwest
✟90,217.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Continuing again, looking at Acts 2 & what happened there.

'how is it we each hear them in our own language (dialect again) to which we were BORN?'

It was not that they spoke one language & different languages were heard, but the apostles spoke with different languages with different dialects; for otherwise the miracle would have been in the hearers, whereas it is really in the speakers.

There is no description here of any jargon or incoherent speech, we are told of utterances tested by the ears of those who had spoken these languages & different dialects from their youth upwards.

*Parthians: PAHLAVI is the standard spoken & written form descended from a DIALECT of Parthian. The Parthians drove their Greek overlords out of what is now northeastern Iran in 247 or 246 bc & dominated the region for the next five centuries. However, Greek remained the 'official' language of Parthia until the 1st century AD.

*Medes: spoke the Median language & who inhabited an area known as Media between western & northern Iran.

*Elamites: Elamite cuneiform, adapted from Akkadian cuneiform, was used from c. 2500 to 331 BC. it was largely a syllabary of some 130 glyphs at any one time & retained only a few logograms from Akkadian but, over time, the number of logograms increased.

*Residents of Mesopotamia: Sumerian & Akkadian languages (also knew Aramaic)

*Judea: rabbinic literature shows Galilean's spoke a somewhat different dialect of Hebrew than those in Judea so they would notice the difference.

*Cappadocia: ancient Cappadocian language & a dialect of Greek
Pontus: Pontic Greek is considered a DIALECT of the same language as modern Greek, although reportedly, the speakers of each do not fully understand each other. Also Cyrillic.

*Asia: the Sinitic languages; various dialects of Aramaic were spoken as well as spoken varieties or dialects of Chinese (Hokkian & Minnan) that were mutually unintelligible to their respective speakers.

*Phrygia: spoke Phrygian (now a part of Turkey)

*Pamphylia: Pamphylian is a little-attested & isolated dialect of Ancient Greek that was spoken in Pamphylia.

*Egypt: Egyptian dialects

*Parts & districts of Libya around Cyrene: in these parts they spoke various dialects such as Punic (a Semitic dialect) & various Hilalian dialects of Berber & Bedouin & ancient Arabic; also Maltesian & Hasaitic dialect; Greek was the trade language & some Latin.

*Visitors (strangers) from Rome, both Jews & proselytes:
The Romanesco dialect was singled out by poet Dante as the ugliest in all of Italy--the letter “j” is pronounced as “i“, whereas in the other dialects it’s not. Also Milanese dialect (Gallo-Italic sub-group; Milanese uses two additional vowels “ö” and “y” & subject pronouns are doubled in the 2nd & 3rd person), Venetian dialect (derives from Latin & Greek--in Venetian the word “Farmacia” (pharmacy) is replaced with “Apoteca.”

There is also a Florentian dialect--the further south you travel, the more heavy & harsh the dialect becomes. Another is Neapolitan dialect--a lot of vowels & endings are dropped. Another is Sicilian dialect--has such a thick accent that people often mistake the dialect as a completely different foreign language–it doesn’t derive from standard Latin/Italian but has linguistic elements from Greek, Latin, Arabic, French, Spanish & more. What’s unique about this dialect is that plural endings of nouns end in “i“, no matter what the gender.

*Cretans: They spoke the Dorian or western dialect of Greek. There were four major dialects in ancient Greece: Aeolic, Doric, Koine & Ionic.

Arabs: Arabic dialects. Just like the Spanish spoken in Latin America, each country has its own flavor of the language with local slang and even different verb conjugations sometimes. Countries that share a border tend to have similar dialects at least along the border simply due to the constant exchange that goes on there.

Peninsular dialects: the Arabic spoken there does not share very much with Classical Arabic.

Maghrebi dialects. Maghrebi dialects are spoken in Morocco, Tunisia, Libya & Algeria. They show Berber, Punic, Spanish, French, Italian, Turkish, and English influences.

Sudanese dialects: Chadic, Juba & Sudanese dialects. The dialects in this group are considered by some to be the most archaic but purest forms of Arabic, and many accents of Sudanese Arabic speakers are similar to those of Saudi Arabian Arabic speakers.

Egyptian dialects: Egyptian Arabic dialects are spoken in Egypt. They include Egyptian Arabic as well as Sa’idi Arabic, which is spoken mostly around the Egyptian border with Sudan. Speakers of Egyptian Arabic don’t always understand Sa’idi Arabic speakers if they speak a more conservative type of the dialect.

Mesopotamian dialects: This Arabic group includes Mesopotamian Arabic and North Mesopotamian Arabic. Since the lingua franca of Mesopotamia was Aramaic, the varieties from that area show some Aramaic influences.

Levantine dialects: It has 8 different ones. All Levantine Arabic dialects have a unique stress pattern that most other dialects do not have.

One has to remember that thousands of Jews from these various countries & speaking these various dialects were in Jerusalem at that time. Of this great multitude, 3000 of them became Christians at Pentecost! So the crowd that gathered was very large.

This phenomenon was amazingly unique & truly bewildered the large crowd. It was all done by the power of the Holy Spirit & utterance was given as He decided & distributed. I am amazed at doing this study of what truly happened that day! Praise the Lord! (to be continued)
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Hidden In Him
Upvote 0

Mathetes66

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 24, 2019
1,031
867
Pacifc Northwest
✟90,217.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Continuing to look at Acts 2 carries us to verse 14:

'But Peter, standing with the eleven, lifted up HIS VOICE & addressed them.'

Luke makes a distinction here by the Holy Spirit. For awhile the very large crowd listened to the gathered disciples speak various distinct languages, many in specific dialects of that language that people had learned since they were born, in the very accents as if a native born speaker was speaking.

They were speaking of the wonderful acts of God! Then after this display of the Holy Spirit enabling others with this gift of speaking in tongues had died down, Peter & the other 11 apostles all stood up together. No longer were they speaking in tongues. Now the text says that Peter LIFTED UP HIS VOICE.

Voice is once again the Greek word, 'phonen': a tone; by implication, an address, saying or language. This was Peter's normal tonal or Galilean inflection & accent now of Aramaic. Now he sounded like a true Galilean to the crowd.

Addressed comes from the Greek word, 'apephthenxato': To speak out, declare. From apo and phtheggomai; to enunciate plainly. Peter was specifically declaring the gospel message in his own dialect of Aramaic from the region of Galilee & his enunciation was plain to all.

This was not the special gift of speaking in another language, even a different dialect, but of speaking Aramaic as a native born Galilean!

I continue to be amazed at how PRECISE God is to reveal the truth of His Word to us. (to be continued)
 
Upvote 0

Saint JOHN

Active Member
May 5, 2017
183
71
58
Adelaide
✟20,848.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
1 Corinth. 14 v 2 : For he that speaketh in an UNKNOWN TONGUE speaketh NOT UNTO MEN but UNTO GOD

Paul..1 Corinth 14 v 18 I thank my God I SPEAK IN TONGUES MORE THAN YOU “ALL” (they all can )

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation,

All recieve the Holy Spirit with the Bible evidence of speaking in tonguse !
mark 16 v 16 + its a package deal..thats how you tell a true believer from non... dont debate just do what he commands !
 
Upvote 0

Mathetes66

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 24, 2019
1,031
867
Pacifc Northwest
✟90,217.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Continuing in Acts 2, again in 2:14, the word 'addressed' is the same word used in Acts 2:4 for 'utterance.'

Act 2:4 AndG2532 they were allG537 filledG4130 with the HolyG40 Ghost,G4151 andG2532 beganG756 to speakG2980 with otherG2087 tongues,G1100 asG2531 theG3588 SpiritG4151 gaveG1325 themG846 utterance.G669

Before Peter was speaking in tongues: AS THE SPIRIT GAVE HIM UTTERANCE. He was speaking & enunciating plainly in other dialects of a known language. The interpreters were already there, those in the large crowd. The newly assembled church were gathered together there.

Now Peter is once again giving utterance by the Holy Spirit, only this time it is not the gift of tongues, but the gift of prophecy! John Ellicott, in his commentary says it very well:

Peter's mind had been opened by his Lord's teaching to understand the Scriptures {of the OT & the prophets} (Luke 24:45) & then he had been endued, by the gift of the Holy Spirit, with power from on high. That which he now speaks is the first utterance of the new gift of prophecy IN THE ASSEMBLED SAINTS or early church.

And said unto them (addressed).--The verb is not the word commonly so rendered, but that which is translated "utterance," or "to utter," in Acts 2:4. The unusual word was probably repeated here to indicate that what follows was just as much an "utterance" of the Holy Spirit, working in & through the spiritual powers of man, as the marvel of the "tongues" had been.

This is shown by Peter's quoting of OT Scriptures & showing fulfillment in explaining what was going on with the assembled saints & the gospel message.

These are examples of the operation of the different gifts of the Spirit & the different administrations by the Lord & the different operations or workings of God the Father--WITHIN the Body of Christ WHEN they are assembled together.

The Spirit gave utterance to both the gift of tongues & the gift of prophecy. The Lord was working through the diversity of administrations by having the 12 apostles stand up, as Christ's administers.

God the Father operated different manifestations or activities or workings like the SOUND like a mighty rushing wind & the flames of fire on top of the disciples gathered together. The Triune God is at work here. The preciseness of the language is again amazing in its clarity & plain teaching. (to be continued)
 
Upvote 0

Romans 8

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 16, 2019
1,410
1,151
Canada
✟137,253.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Very simple. There are 3 types of speaking in tongues.

One is personal, for edifying one's spirit. This is done in private.

Two is done for prophecy in the church. This requires a translator with the gift of translation.

Three is for reaching beyond the boundaries of human language. The person speaking in tongues can speak in another's language and dialect through the power of the Holy Spirit. This is not linguistics. It's the power of God.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Joined2krist
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

mister rogers

Active Member
Apr 4, 2019
99
65
44
South Bend
✟13,848.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
My view is that it is an actual human language the person never learned. The word "tongue" is just Old English for "language". In the modern vernacular, we honestly should be saying "the gift of languages".
As for my experience, I was led to practice ecstatic speech, which is what many claim the gift is. The problem with this is the fact that anyone can do it. Anyone can act like they're speaking another language and work up emotions doing it. It's just convincing people to do it that is the trick. Even non-Christian religions do it. That is not miraculous, and definitely not a sign for the exclusive truth of Christianity. If even an atheist can do it, clearly it is not a sign of the Holy Spirit. However, if one were to begin speaking another language they've never learned, and someone nearby speaks that language and verifies it, that is miraculous!
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Mathetes66
Upvote 0

Saint JOHN

Active Member
May 5, 2017
183
71
58
Adelaide
✟20,848.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an [unknown] tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth [him]; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

tongues..automatic upon recieving the Holy Ghost..as through the book of acts..same for true believers today..

Jesus warned his disciples how to tell true believers..not just religious/superstitious..

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
 
Upvote 0

mister rogers

Active Member
Apr 4, 2019
99
65
44
South Bend
✟13,848.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
As for the verses from Paul you quote, they come from the same segment where he says not everyone has the gift of languages. Ch. 12. So, whatever speaking in other languages is, and everything about it, that much is clear. Not every person born of the Spirit speaks in other languages. What you see in Acts is the accompanying gift upon being baptized with the Spirit (What I believe is the initial experience of being filled with the Spirit) God determined to happen in those particular situations, but not to be expected for every time one is baptized/filled with the Spirit.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Mathetes66
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Saint JOHN

Active Member
May 5, 2017
183
71
58
Adelaide
✟20,848.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Single
Lots to address here. I'll start with the last passage. Based on how you cite it, by the same logic EVERY believer also has to be exorcists and healers.

well whatever YOU THINK,..Jesus said you would have them..just do what he says.

ps..once filled with Gods Spirit there is no room for the enemy..
 
Upvote 0