The full view wanted

[hopeinGod]

I've become interested in knowing what home churches are all about, how they got started, what the beef is about traditional settings, have been reading Frank Viola's writings, and now I've come across blogs and other statements that put the home church movement on the defensive.

There's accusations of there being wealthy home church writers who are making a killing selling their written perspectives. Are Viola or Barna rich?

What sort of traps exist within this movement? Probably the same things that we've all known from the traditional structures, the making of idols, the building of kingdoms and followers, a greater chance for error to take root especially if the folks who attend aren't really well studied, etc.

I'd like to find a home church in Tampa, FL, but have come across so much negativity, I've now become hesitant, as much as I am about visiting churches made by hands.

 

[Stefos]

I've become interested in knowing what home churches are all about, how they got started, what the beef is about traditional settings, have been reading Frank Viola's writings, and now I've come across blogs and other statements that put the home church movement on the defensive.

There's accusations of there being wealthy home church writers who are making a killing selling their written perspectives. Are Viola or Barna rich?

What sort of traps exist within this movement? Probably the same things that we've all known from the traditional structures, the making of idols, the building of kingdoms and followers, a greater chance for error to take root especially if the folks who attend aren't really well studied, etc.

I'd like to find a home church in Tampa, FL, but have come across so much negativity, I've now become hesitant, as much as I am about visiting churches made by hands.

Regarding Barna & Viola being rich:
Well, it could be OR it could not be that Viola & Barna are rich!
I don't know.

What I'm thankful for is that they published VERY challenging stuff that set me & others free insofar as publishing the much needed historical & scriptural proof against certain unbiblical practices.

Beyond that, Why don't you just loan you're book to another concerned & interested believer OR have them interlibrary load the books of Frank Viola/George Barna? No $$ would come out of your pockets! Right? right.

Furthermore IF you think that these 2 brothers ARE getting rich off the gospel, Why don't you call them on it? Email them or write them.
Telling me your concern is right & I'm thankful & I'll be even more thankful when I hear that you contacted them for your peace of mind's sake.

The Apostle Paul said "Some preach Christ out of a desire for gain ($$) others from a sincere motive" We need to preach Christ out of a sincere motive & let's pray for these 2 brothers that they wouldn't be tempted by gain ($$). Make Sense? Amen

Regarding "Home/House Churches":
The issue is that just because someone starts a "House Church" doesn't mean that it's patterned after what the New Testament portrays as the biblical pattern! Usually it's people who disagreed about certain denominational or non-denominational practices of churches they were involved with & decided to leave as the denominational or non-denominational denomination wouldn't budge due to profit or arrogance (usually both in my experience).

Don't lose heart, God's word is the pattern NOT these traditions of men called denominations.

Regarding "House Churches being on the defensive":
Look, If what we do is what God's word says to do, we aren't wrong!
I do NOT mean what every House Church does is right (See post above).

Your concern, brother, is to see that the right Gospel is being preached AND the correct pattern is being patterned after.....Anything else is a waste of your time & emotions.

I, for one, won't suffer for the wrong pattern or a "good idea" called a denomination.

Focus on what God's written word says in the New Testament & not what denominations OR non-denominational movements are doing for your own peace sake please.

God ALWAYS had a pattern & that isn't the denominations you see today which are largely mixture: Pagan concepts, Traditions of men & God's written word = Clustermess of American Christianity being pushed as "The Gospel"

Amen............Stay Cool in Christ

 

[1watchman]

When one is searching for the biblical path for saints of God in this age, I usually recommend they consider the ministry at the sound site: www.biblecounsel.net, which sets forth a good picture of what God intended for His testimony in the world.

 

[Stefos]

Hi HopeinGod,

I would view the site 1watchman refers to BUT it doesn't reflect New Testament Christianity in it's totality, especially when it comes to Elders giving oversight, but rather it misses the New Testament pattern. Therefore be cautious & really read what these people are saying.

Sorry but that is my view and the aforesaid website proves this.

Stick with what Viola & Barna are saying ESPECIALLY the whole of what "Pagan Christianity?" says......But view what other believers have to share too! We aren't elitists and have been wrong many times.

Stefos

 

[1watchman]

Many Bible scholars down through 180+ years have recognized the truth of that revival of 1827 AD as shown at the BibleCounsel site; but maybe you know more than they, Stefos. I don't know about your background.

Well, each can believe as they choose, but after many years of Bible study I am much convinced of that revival, and appreciate the ministry shown. Look up, friend!

 

[Stefos]

Many Bible scholars down through 180+ years have recognized the truth of that revival of 1827 AD as shown at the BibleCounsel site; but maybe you know more than they, Stefos. I don't know about your background.

Well, each can believe as they choose, but after many years of Bible study I am much convinced of that revival, and appreciate the ministry shown. Look up, friend!

I'm not here to debate but only to discuss. Sorry.

On the website you gave me, Elders (Greek for "old man") giving oversight (Episkopee in Greek) is not mentioned at all insofar as church government was concerned. Furthermore, nor are deacons/deaconesses mentioned either.

There is NO excuse for this nonsense as it seems to down "people with titles." Elders are called or "titled" that by Paul but that was used to bring clarity as to what they dide: practical workers in God's body.
Apostles, Prophets, Pastors, Teachers & Evangelists are also not just a title but an actual gift from the Holy Spirit which is the person himself.

God's word doesn't put an emphasis on the title of a person but their ministry.

Notice that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are:
gift of discerning of spirits
gift of tongues
gift of interpretation of tongues
etc.
These are all functions that the Holy Spirit does through people and not "the person" per se.

Apostles/Prophets/Teachers/Pastors/Evangelists are people gifs, in comparison. They are people gifts, per se.

Finis
Stefos

 

[ananda]

I've become interested in knowing what home churches are all about, how they got started, what the beef is about traditional settings, have been reading Frank Viola's writings, and now I've come across blogs and other statements that put the home church movement on the defensive.

There's accusations of there being wealthy home church writers who are making a killing selling their written perspectives. Are Viola or Barna rich?

What sort of traps exist within this movement? Probably the same things that we've all known from the traditional structures, the making of idols, the building of kingdoms and followers, a greater chance for error to take root especially if the folks who attend aren't really well studied, etc.

I'd like to find a home church in Tampa, FL, but have come across so much negativity, I've now become hesitant, as much as I am about visiting churches made by hands.

In my opinion, the only major difference between a "home church" and "traditional" churches is that the former expects a direct connection with Messiah and the latter expects that the "laity" must go through their "elders" in order to properly connect with Messiah.

 

[Stefos]

In my opinion, the only major difference between a "home church" and "traditional" churches is that the former expects a direct connection with Messiah and the latter expects that the "laity" must go through their "elders" in order to properly connect with Messiah.

You have a partial point there..........You've assumed WAY too much!

A "house church" is a church that meets in a house essentially.
That's it. Nothing more than that. As a matter of fact THIS accords with scripture.

"Traditional" denominations/churches can be very off doctrinally, somewhat off, or off by very little.

The point is NEW TESTAMENT CHRISTIANITY, not denominations.

As I've stated in other posts, Just because a person has a "house church" doesn't mean that they are doctrinally correct nor are they necessarily patterned after the New Testament model.

This is an obvious fact.

Stefos

 

[ananda]

You have a partial point there..........You've assumed WAY too much! A "house church" is a church that meets in a house essentially.
That's it. Nothing more than that. As a matter of fact THIS accords with scripture ... As I've stated in other posts, Just because a person has a "house church" doesn't mean that they are doctrinally correct ..

Yes, my statement was a generalization Thank you for the correction.

 

[hopeinGod]

Thanks for the input. I am continuing to read books by Viola and Barna, as well as their blogs. I do feel the Word calling us to freely give and receive, so wealth building via the Word does appear to me to be wrong. I have a website of my own on which I share what I've learned through the years, some of which has not been edited to relieve it of a more traditional view of church.

It is hard to get away from the conundrum of titles, as one place we are told to not give titles to men while at the same time it's evident God has set up ministry offices for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, until we all come to the unity of the faith, which, as I see it, refers to doctrinal agreement, which I doubt very much, we will see in my lifetime.

In fact, so much seems to be in the way of Christ's return, since the Church overall, whether it is in or out of traditionalism, is in such intense disagreement. It really would be nice to settle in with a group who speaks the same things, believes the same things. Is that possible anywhere?

I know, as I wrote previously, that I will never again be a part of a traditionalist assembly. Lots of reasons for that choice, some of which were born out of charismatic extremism. But then, I don't want to settle for mediocrity either, to be where the sharing is childlike and unchallenging. It's so sad the state of the whole church. So little knowledge of the Word exists, being saturated with lopsided, extremist views without balance or a willingness to learn.

It is easy to see why some "pastors/evangelists" I know have headed for Brazil. Donations and tithing in that country have made at least one billionaire, so even the intent of reaching out to the lost has diminished the heart of the gospel. Do home church groups reach out? Become missionaries? Go door-to-door? Or will I find that equally as wrong as everything else I once believed in?
David

 

[ananda]

...In fact, so much seems to be in the way of Christ's return, since the Church overall, whether it is in or out of traditionalism, is in such intense disagreement. It really would be nice to settle in with a group who speaks the same things, believes the same things. Is that possible anywhere?

No, I doubt it. But then again, I do not believe that Messiah called His faithful disciples to "go and believe the same things". Instead, I believe He wants us to focus on "come and diligently follow Him".

Do home church groups reach out? Become missionaries? Go door-to-door? Or will I find that equally as wrong as everything else I once believed in? David

I believe that all faithful believers are called to be evangelists/missionaries/preachers/prayer warriors/etc, not simply a select few within the "church".