Not works of righteousness, but by faith;
The obedience of faith.
Do you understand that no one is saved apart from obey the Gospel?
JLB
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Obedience to the Lord = works.
“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;” Titus 3:5 (KJV 1900)
= the self righteous save themselves.
How about babies?Not works of righteousness, but by faith;
The obedience of faith.
Do you understand that no one is saved apart from obey the Gospel?
JLB
The OT Jews obeyed the Law and perished. Law cannot save.please explain how obeying the Lord is self righteousness?
You obviously have no earthly idea what you are talking about.
JLB
I understand that you don't understand.Here are some scriptures that teach us what we must do, as born again Christians in order to be fruitful followers of Christ Jesus.
The first and most important thing is to remain in Him.
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6
Notice that it is God the Father Himself that removes unfruitful branches that are “in Christ” because they are unfruitful.
- Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;
Those who are “in Christ” who do not remain “in Him”, are cast into the fire and burned.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
“They” = branches that were once “in Him” then they were no longer in Him, and were gathered up and thrown into the fire and burned.
Here is how this same Apostle John instructs us to remain “in Christ”. -
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
- he who keeps His commandments abides in Him
JLB
I understand that you don't understand.
The OT Jews obeyed the Law and perished. Law cannot save.
You must be saved to obey the gospel. It's foolishness otherwise.Law is not mentioned in my post.
Obeying the Gospel is how we are saved.
Obeying the Lord is how we remain saved.
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4
JLB
I believe God is the only one who can truly know our hearts and and the only one who truly know who is saved. He is such a forgiving God that even the thief on the cross, by acknowledging who Jesus is, was saved. The church just created a new law themselves. Its the law of, "We believe, but just in case I will do good works to keep my salvation".So you believe that a person who is in Christ, then removed from Christ is still saved?
He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 1 John 5:12
Hope this helps you to understand.
JLB
I believe God is the only one who can truly know our hearts and and the only one who truly know who is saved.
He is such a forgiving God that even the thief on the cross, by acknowledging who Jesus is, was saved.
You must be saved to obey the gospel. It's foolishness otherwise.
Keep in mind that theres a difference between fear and respect. Every christian should eventually mature from fear to respect. I first didn't do things out of fear, now I don't do them out of respect and because of the revelation I am in Him. I understand what He did on the cross for me, I understand the meaning of the sacrifice and all of its benefits. My behavior, my live for Him, for others and for myself doesn't come from fear, but from knowing His heart and who the Father is through the life of Jesus. The Bible says that fear implies punishment when you haven't experienced perfect love.To all:
The goal of my intention with this thread is to help folks to see that there are different aspects to salvation mentioned in the Scriptures. Many appear to be under the impression that salvation is more one dimensional. But the Bible does not speak that way about salvation. While even others will admit that Progessive Sanctification is a part of salvation, it is vitally important that we seek the Scriptures on how that is defined. Did Jesus and His followers warn us about how certain sins can destroy us spiritually? If so, then this needs to be factored into the equation in the Sanctification Process (I believe they fail to understand it and the other aspects of salvation). In Sanctification: The motivator is not just God's love and grace, but it is also the fear of destruction and or judgment, as well. For it is written, that "the fear of the Lord, men depart from evil." (Proverbs 16:6). In Justification: It is not a get out of hell free card with no chance of ever being thrown back in. God is holy, and just and He cannot agree with our view that we can sin and still be saved on any level. Hebrews 10:26 says that if we willfully sin after we receive the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin.
Keep in mind that theres a difference between fear and respect. Every christian should eventually mature from fear to respect. I first didn't do things out of fear, now I don't do them out of respect and because of the revelation I am in Him. I understand what He did on the cross for me, I understand the meaning of the sacrifice and all of its benefits. My behavior, my live for Him, for others and for myself doesn't come from fear, but from knowing His heart and who the Father is through the life of Jesus. The Bible says that fear implies punishment when you haven't experienced perfect love.
Such love has no fear, because perfect love expels all fear. If we are afraid, it is for fear of punishment, and this shows that we have not fully experienced his perfect love. 1 John 4:18.
But the way to perfect love and to know we are in Him is to keep His Word (See 1 John 2:5).
Also, we are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12). Why all the trembling if it is not talking about fear?[/QUOTE
People need to become and understand love to then be able to express it. People need to understand the word to be able to keep it without fear. Jesus said to keep His commandments, he did, but seek to understand why He asked you to, then you will learn to love His heart, the reason behind them and then you become who you are in Him.
You can dress like a cowboy and yet never become one. The idea is for you to learn the reason behind the commandment, the reason why He wants you to keep them, which is identity. You keep them because that's how Heaven functions.
I have a 3 year old nephew. A few months ago he was playing with his cousins hot wheel and my nephews dad noticed he was trying to hide it in one of his pockets. My brother in law didn't strike his son, he didn't yelled at him nor said, "You just sinned! You are not my son anymore!". My brother in law got to his level, and told his son that we don't keep what is not ours. His dad noticed he did something thats not aligned with his identity, so he corrected him. He didn't correct his son for Him to keep his order/decision/command, but because he knows the kind of person he is and the kind of person God wants Him to be. He is building character/identity in him.
Unfortunately many people live life without encountering God's love because what He intended was for parents to pass on righteousness to their kids, but that was broken. My nephew is too young to have a relationship with God, but he is learning who God is through his father; disciplined, a good Father, yet merciful and loving. Eventually my nephew will learn how to have a relationship with God.
I am not behaving well to get into Heaven. I behave well because that is who I am; a reflection of Jesus.
The reason Paul writes to keep your salvation with trembling is because many experienced God's mercy but they went back to the way they were before and were disregarding God. They were like the Israelites, who saw all of God's goodness and still rebelled against Him. But when you understand the Cross, when you understand the greatness of His sacrifice, you just want to know Him more.
The Bible says there are people who are weak in faith and we are not to judge them. If they need to keep certain religious acts and keep certain days, let them. What I don't agree with is when people try to drag us back into keeping commandments out of fear instead of out of respect, identity and honor.
People need to become and understand love to then be able to express it. People need to understand the word to be able to keep it without fear. Jesus said to keep His commandments, he did, but seek to understand why He asked you to, then you will learn to love His heart, the reason behind them and then you become who you are in Him.
You can dress like a cowboy and yet never become one. The idea is for you to learn the reason behind the commandment, the reason why He wants you to keep them, which is identity. You keep them because that's how Heaven functions.
You said:I have a 3 year old nephew. A few months ago he was playing with his cousins hot wheel and my nephews dad noticed he was trying to hide it in one of his pockets. My brother in law didn't strike his son, he didn't yelled at him nor said, "You just sinned! You are not my son anymore!". My brother in law got to his level, and told his son that we don't keep what is not ours. His dad noticed he did something thats not aligned with his identity, so he corrected him. He didn't correct his son for Him to keep his order/decision/command, but because he knows the kind of person he is and the kind of person God wants Him to be. He is building character/identity in him.
You said:I am not behaving well to get into Heaven.
I behave well because that is who I am; a reflection of Jesus.
You said:The reason Paul writes to keep your salvation with trembling is because many experienced God's mercy but they went back to the way they were before and were disregarding God. They were like the Israelites, who saw all of God's goodness and still rebelled against Him. But when you understand the Cross, when you understand the greatness of His sacrifice, you just want to know Him more.
You said:The Bible says there are people who are weak in faith and we are not to judge them. If they need to keep certain religious acts and keep certain days, let them. What I don't agree with is when people try to drag us back into keeping commandments out of fear instead of out of respect, identity and honor.
If you are a reflection of Jesus, then you would teach the same things He taught.
Jesus warned against how sin can destroy our souls in the afterlife.
Jesus said that if one looks upon a woman in lust, their whole body can be cast into hell fire (Matthew 5:28-30).
Jesus said if we do not forgive, we will no be forgiven by the Father (Matthew 6:15).
Please show me the Scriptures that says this.
Actually Paul was afraid for the Galatian believers in the fact that they felt that they had to keep days and years, etc.
"Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain." (Galatians 4:10-11).
Why? Because they were seeking to be justified by the Old Law (i.e. the Law of Moses, the 613 laws given to Israel, and not the commands of Jesus and His followers).
"Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace." (Galatians 5:4).
Circumcision Salvationism (the heresy that said you had to be circumcised first in order to be initially saved) was a problem for certain Galatian believers.
"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2).
Besides, Philippians 2:12 is not the only verse that talks about how we need to fear the Lord until we perfect love by obeying His Word (1 John 2:5).
"Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man." (Ecclesiastes 12:13).
“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV 1900)That is Heresy.
We believe then we are saved.
Your “gospel” is backwards which says, we are saved then we believe the Gospel.
Please show me the scripture that says we are saved then we believe.
Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12
- lest they should believe and be saved.
JLB
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