The Fossils for Human Evolution

Humble_Disciple

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2021
1,121
387
38
Northwest
✟39,150.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Divorced
This article is the most stunning admission for the lack of fossil evidence for human evolution that I've ever read. The author presents his own alternative, the aquatic ape theory, which he admits cannot possibly be demonstrated by fossil evidence.

It seems really desperate that he would even present an alternative to the mainstream view, while admitting that it cannot be supported by the evidence, just to maintain his belief in human evolution.

Acclaimed fossils might not depict human evolution

Humans may have evolved relatively recently from isolated chimpanzees, without formation of any fossils. This would mean that since the time of Darwin, the missing-link fossils that people have been looking for simply do not exist...

Humans may have originated from a group of
chimpanzees that were isolated for up to 30,000 years on the island of Bioko, Africa. They lived mostly in the sea, on a marine diet with high levels of essential fatty acids for brain
growth...

No fossils would have formed along the coast of Bioko, because it was an erosional geologic environment without deposition of sediments.

After this speciation event, sea level dropped during the next ice age, and the newly evolved humans could escape to mainland Africa. Modern humans such as Homo sapiens and Homo neanderthalensis then begin appearing in the fossil record. Earlier fossils, those more than about 300,000 years old, are paltry, and do not really show evolution toward the modern human features...

There are far more paleoanthropologists than there are primate fossils or fossil localities. Only a few paleoanthropologists ever find a primate fossil themselves, and they have limited opportunity to study original fossil materials found by others. To protect the fossil evidence and encourage new discoveries, the science of paleoanthropology has adopted practices that are not very scientific. They accept discoveries and interpretations that are not testable or reproducible by impartial scientists. Skeptics and critics can be ignored.

Dealing with them would help the cause of creationism, a lobby with political influence that denies evolution and is always looking for scientific weaknesses...

Paleoanthropologists have no plausible explanation for human encephalization — the evolutionary increase of brain size. All paleoanthropologists seem to agree that human-sized brains appear suddenly in the fossil record with the first Homo sapiens.

Since brain size did not increase sufficiently before Homo sapiens, paleoanthropologists began to use bipedalism, not encephalization, to be the key feature indicating early human evolution. Many bones in the body could be used to show that an ape was bipedal. So even with scanty fossils, many paleoanthropologists could be involved in the discussions.

It should be remembered, however, that arboreal apes are often bipedal when moving on the ground...

All chimpanzees can walk on two legs when carrying something, and must do so when moving about in waist-deep water...

Lucy was an Australopithecus, about one meter tall and about 3.2 million years old. The skeleton was said to be 40% complete, which made it by far the most complete early human ancestor.

The bone fragments convinced specialists that Lucy was bipedal with an upright posture. No foot bones or hand bones were known from Lucy or from other Australopithecus. But Lucy was assumed to have had human-like feet...

An impartial geologist would have little to gain and much to risk by challenging the 3.6 m.y. ash-fall interpretation of the Laetoli layers. A debate about this would play right into the hands of creationists, who claim that fossil evidence is routinely misinterpreted...

They assembled a spectacular skeleton, popularly referred to as the Nariokotome skeleton or Turkana boy It is the most complete early human ancestor in existence, as it includes 108 of the 206 bones of the body. It is thought to be Homo erectus, or perhaps Homo ergaster. There is little agreement about species identifications, because the fossil material from other places is too scanty and varied to agree which species are the same...

The bones are said to show bipedality, and everyone assumes that the boy had human-like feet. However, the assembled skeleton has neither foot bones nor hand bones...

Did they perhaps find hand bones or foot bones that suggested an arboreal lifestyle, and therefore could not belong to this skeleton?...

When one reads paleoanthropologic descriptions with a measure of skepticism, one can find problems with all the discoveries. Most of the fossils could be fragments of unrelated apes. From genetics, it now seems that neither Java Man nor Peking Man could be ancestral to living humans.

The aquatic ape theory will never be able to point to a dramatic fossil discovery, which typically launches new evolution theories. But such fossils, although exciting, are not as certain as most people assume.
Acclaimed fossils might not depict human evolution

Those who believe in special creation aren't ignorant or stupid. They just look at the evidence without a presupposition of naturalism and reductionism, and as a result, it comes up lacking.

The fossil evidence regarding human evolution is neither reproducible nor reliable. And since paleoanthropologists cannot explain what caused humans to evolve naked skin, bipedalism, large brain, and other human features, creationists can push the non-scientific idea that this unique evolutionary path was the result of “Intelligent Design.”
Acclaimed fossils might not depict human evolution
 
Last edited:

Yttrium

Independent Centrist
May 19, 2019
3,890
4,315
Pacific NW
✟245,983.00
Country
United States
Faith
Skeptic
Marital Status
Single
Those who believe in special creation aren't ignorant or stupid. They just look at the evidence without a presupposition of naturalism and reductionism, and as a result, it comes up lacking.

Lacking in what way? We have sufficient evidence to suggest that a significant amount of human evolution occurred. We have evidence that suggests humans and other apes evolved from common ancestors.

It's true that we lack sufficient evidence for complete proof. That's okay. It's a scientific theory. No one's asking you to believe it completely. It just needs to fit the known evidence.

To get rid of the theory, you need to come up with conflicting evidence.
 
Upvote 0

Humble_Disciple

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2021
1,121
387
38
Northwest
✟39,150.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Divorced
Lacking in what way? We have sufficient evidence to suggest that a significant amount of human evolution occurred. We have evidence that suggests humans and other apes evolved from common ancestors.

It's true that we lack sufficient evidence for complete proof. That's okay. It's a scientific theory. No one's asking you to believe it completely. It just needs to fit the known evidence.

To get rid of the theory, you need to come up with conflicting evidence.

Please actually read the article before commenting. In the very last, please read the parts I quoted for you.
 
Upvote 0

Gene2memE

Newbie
Oct 22, 2013
4,130
6,348
✟275,955.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
This article is the most stunning admission for the lack of fossil evidence for human evolution that I've ever read. The author presents his own alternative, the aquatic ape theory, which he admits cannot possibly be demonstrated by fossil evidence.

The aquatic ape theory isn't the author's - it was postulated by a couple of scientists in the 1930s and then popularised by Alastair Hardy and Desmond Morris in the 1960s. It was resurrected in the 1990s by Elaine Morgan.

It seems really desperate that he would even present an alternative to the mainstream view, while admitting that it cannot be supported by the evidence, just to maintain his belief in human evolution.

That's not what he's doing though.

Those who believe in special creation aren't ignorant or stupid. They just look at the evidence without a presupposition of naturalism and reductionism, and as a result, it comes up lacking.

That's not what they're doing though. Creationists put the cart before the horse. They have an answer (humans and/or life was created) and then they rationalise all evidence based on their presupposition. It's the inverse of the actual way of doing things.
 
Upvote 0

Humble_Disciple

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2021
1,121
387
38
Northwest
✟39,150.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Divorced
For the sake of brevity, there are parts of the article I didn't quote that are just as embarrassing for human evolution as the parts I did quote. This is why the article should be read in its entirety, especially by someone who insists that common descent is true.

Acclaimed fossils might not depict human evolution
 
Upvote 0

Bradskii

Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail?
Aug 19, 2018
15,985
10,860
71
Bondi
✟255,051.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
This article is the most stunning admission for the lack of fossil evidence for human evolution that I've ever read. The author presents his own alternative, the aquatic ape theory, which he admits cannot possibly be demonstrated by fossil evidence.

So to try to disprove evolution from early hominids, you link to someone who says...we evolved from chimps. And that 'the aquatic ape theory can be demonstrated in many scientific ways.' Which means that you've now got two theories to try to dismantle.

May I point out something that might not have occurred to you. Those who try to deny evolution using science have only two options. Using the science that either creationists or IDers produce (and I didn't even put scare quotes around 'science' then) OR what we can call mainstream science. Which is everything except that produced by creationists and IDers.

The first doesn't stand up. You can do your best but it's really a waste of everyone's time even debating it. And the second invariably cuts the ground from under your feet. Because whoever you quote, to whomever you link, whatever paper you point to or whatever article you want to discuss will have within it or will reference something else that dismantles the very point you are trying to make.

This is a case in point. You are asking us to accept as a trusted scientist someone whose very theory you are asking us to consider completely dismantles your idea of how we came to be.

Well done.
 
Upvote 0

Humble_Disciple

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2021
1,121
387
38
Northwest
✟39,150.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Divorced
The fossil evidence regarding human evolution is neither reproducible nor reliable. And since paleoanthropologists cannot explain what caused humans to evolve naked skin, bipedalism, large brain, and other human features, creationists can push the non-scientific idea that this unique evolutionary path was the result of “Intelligent Design.”
Acclaimed fossils might not depict human evolution

Wow. Just wow.
 
Upvote 0

Humble_Disciple

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2021
1,121
387
38
Northwest
✟39,150.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Divorced
Which part of "The fossil evidence regarding human evolution is neither reproducible nor reliable. And since paleoanthropologists cannot explain what caused humans to evolve naked skin, bipedalism, large brain, and other human features, creationists can push the non-scientific idea that this unique evolutionary path was the result of “Intelligent Design”' is hard to understand?

Acclaimed fossils might not depict human evolution

Case closed.
 
Upvote 0

Bradskii

Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail?
Aug 19, 2018
15,985
10,860
71
Bondi
✟255,051.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
Wow. Just wow.

May I ask if this is something with which you agree? I'm just trying to get a feel for your idea of how we came to be.

"It is now proven by mitochondrial DNA and Y-chromosomal DNA, to nearly everyone’s satisfaction, that all living humans descended from a small population that lived in Africa about 200,000 years ago."
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,851,162
51,516
Guam
✟4,910,537.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
We have sufficient evidence to suggest that a significant amount of human evolution occurred.
All you need is a pig's tooth ... right?

And yes, I realize it was an honest mistake; but one thing it did show was how little an amount of evidence is required to be able to claim a whole new species of man has been found.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: ForHimbyHim
Upvote 0

Gene2memE

Newbie
Oct 22, 2013
4,130
6,348
✟275,955.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Which part of "The fossil evidence regarding human evolution is neither reproducible nor reliable. And since paleoanthropologists cannot explain what caused humans to evolve naked skin, bipedalism, large brain, and other human features, creationists can push the non-scientific idea that this unique evolutionary path was the result of “Intelligent Design”' is hard to understand?

Acclaimed fossils might not depict human evolution

Case closed.

Evolution of human skin

Evolution of bipedalism
Evolution of human brain

Case not closed?
 
  • Winner
Reactions: USincognito
Upvote 0

Bradskii

Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail?
Aug 19, 2018
15,985
10,860
71
Bondi
✟255,051.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married
I strongly recommend reading the article in its entirety before commenting. It was not written by a creationist.
Obviously not. It's written by someone who understands and accepts the evolutionary process. So do you accept what he says?

"It is now proven by mitochondrial DNA and Y-chromosomal DNA, to nearly everyone’s satisfaction, that all living humans descended from a small population that lived in Africa about 200,000 years ago."
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Hans Blaster
Upvote 0

Gene2memE

Newbie
Oct 22, 2013
4,130
6,348
✟275,955.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
I strongly recommend reading the article in its entirety before commenting. It was not written by a creationist.

I did. Did you?

It's a retread of the aquatic ape hypothesis, with some minor modifications (mostly geographic isolation and bringing forward the time period).

The author is also wildly off the mark in a few areas.

For instance, his claim that hominid fossils older than 300,000 years "do not really show evolution toward the modern human features" is pretty much flat out wrong. He seems to completely ignore the plentiful evidence of Homo erectus, Homo neanderthalis and Homo heidelbergensis fossils, which show features common with homo sapiens (bipedal locomotion, skull capacity, projecting nose) dating well back beyond 300,000 years.

He also ignores that various archaic human subspecies existed outside of Africa better than 300,000 years ago. For instance, there's evidence that Homo neanderthalis was in southern Europe and the near east up to 450,000 years ago, and Homo erectus was in Europe, South Asia, Central Asia and Eastern Asia up to 700,000 years ago.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Shemjaza

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Apr 17, 2006
6,220
3,838
45
✟926,829.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
AU-Greens
Aquatic ape theory is an alternate, less well accepted evolutionary explanation for humans evolving from basal primates... that doesn't even make sense conceptually as an argument against evolution.

Oh my goodness, there are Catholics and Baptists! Christianity must be false! (Can you see how ridiculous this argument is?)
 
Upvote 0

Frank Robert

Well-Known Member
Feb 18, 2021
2,276
1,121
KW
✟127,503.00
Country
United States
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The fossil evidence regarding human evolution is neither reproducible nor reliable. And since paleoanthropologists cannot explain what caused humans to evolve naked skin, bipedalism, large brain, and other human features, creationists can push the non-scientific idea that this unique evolutionary path was the result of “Intelligent Design.”
Personal incredulity is not evidence for "Intelligent Design," it's a fallacy.​
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Ophiolite

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
Nov 12, 2008
8,654
9,628
✟241,112.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
@Humble_Disciple I have a strong affection for aquatic ape theory and am somewhat frustrated by the condescending way in which some biologists and anthropologists have dismissed it. I suspect it is probably incorrect, yet it is based on several observations that raise questions not fully answered. I am also moved by the support for the theory offered by Sir David Attenborough.

That said, as others have pointed out:
  • Either, the evidence supports human evolution as accepted by the overwhelming majority of biologists
  • Or, the evidence supports human evolution as accepted by the author of your link and a handful of others.
In either case you note the common factor: they all think human evolution has occurred.

Moreover, the assertion that "Acclaimed fossils might not depict human evolution" is not "an admission". It is an opinion. And it is an opinion that forms an integral part of the author's argument in favour of their own preferred theory. It is also an opinion with which the bulk of relevant experts would not agree.

The bottom line is that, even if the current theory of evolution were wrong, that does not mean the Creationist explanation is correct. Science doesn't work that way. You might be able to prove I am an idiot. That wouldn't make you a genius.
 
Upvote 0