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The Fossil Record Proves Speciation, Not Evolution of Lifeforms Observed

stevevw

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-_- it's not blind, traits which favor survival and reproduction are more prone to persisting than traits that don't. All natural processes are mindless, but that doesn't make them entirely random and nonsensical. Purpose is subjective; I view natural processes as more of a consequence than purposeful events, but someone could equally view the purpose of evolution as "to produce organisms better able to survive in their environments" if they wanted to. That is, after all, what it does to populations of organisms. But even if you want to view it as purposeless, that doesn't mean it can't have consistent or useful outcomes.
It is the assumption that it is natural selection that preserves traits that favor survival and reproduction that are more prone to persist that is the issue. There is no evidence for this apart from the assumption that natural selection being an all powerful creative mechanism based on some simple examples. In reality there are limintations. The idea that a blind and random process can reproduce consistently the same outcomes right down to the genetic level regardles of the relationship between creatures or their environmental circumstances calls for massive coincidence and odds.

It is better explained by mechanisms that are designed to produce certain forms over and over again and are self organising and predictable through processes like development and self directed change. There are certain genes which program for certain features that are the same for all living things such as eyes. The variation is just a matter of those genes being switched on or off. This genetic info was already there to produce these features.
 
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Speedwell

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That is what has been determined by the scientific revolution. It was a response to the Churches position that everything was the result of a creator God. It brought a new way of thinking that explained everything in scientific materialism (naturalism). First was the Copernican Revolution and then the Darwinian revolution. Darwins theory of Evolution is a part of this revolution in thinking where naturalistic, random and spontaneous causes can explain how life evolved without a creator God, "design without a designer". Dawkins is just a modern day proponent of this continued revolution in thinking.

Darwin's greatest discovery: Design without designer
Darwin's greatest contribution to science is that he completed the Copernican Revolution by drawing out for biology the notion of nature as a system of matter in motion governed by natural laws. With Darwin's discovery of natural selection, the origin and adaptations of organisms were brought into the realm of science. The adaptive features of organisms could now be explained, like the phenomena of the inanimate world, as the result of natural processes, without recourse to an Intelligent Designer.
http://www.pnas.org/content/104/suppl_1/8567
LOL! I take it you must be a Protestant. :wave:

You have my condolences, of course, but I am unlikely to be able to convince you that Dawkin's "design without a designer" poses no real problem for faith in a creator God. Good luck!
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Your claims have been refuted scientifically ad nauseum yet you plough on regardless, ignoring any evidence that runs contrary to your ideas.

No one takes you seriously at this point so why bother?

My claims are one and all supported by science. It's your PR distortion of science it doesn't fit, and rightly so....

Has any ‘evolutionist’ ever disagreed with the findings of that paper?

No, the disagreement is with your strange and illogical insistence that hybridisation is the only mechanism for evolutionary change.

Yah, need we go to the old post on finches were you spent page after page arguing against it???? Oh, did you forget about that already in your zeal to spout your propaganda????

And I believe I have said before that mutation may affect a small change - once in a blue moon....
 
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VirOptimus

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My claims are one and all supported by science. It's your PR distortion of science it doesn't fit, and rightly so....



Yah, need we go to the old post on finches were you spent page after page arguing against it???? Oh, did you forget about that already in your zeal to spout your propaganda????

And I believe I have said before that mutation may affect a small change - once in a blue moon....

If you want to challenge accepted science, write an article for peer-review. If you cant then your ideas dont matter.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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VirOptimus

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Nobody's opinions here matter, including yours....

Your's even less since you can't support your claims with any science at all.

But at least I am in good company when it comes to thoughts on peer review.....

http://theconversation.com/hate-the-peer-review-process-einstein-did-too-27405

As I accept the established science I dont need to support my views.

Its you who make wild unsupported claims that need to step up to the challenge. As you cant, you loose.
 
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PsychoSarah

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It is the assumption that it is natural selection that preserves traits that favor survival and reproduction that are more prone to persist that is the issue.
-_- tell me, in what universe do the individuals in a population better at surviving in a desert die more frequently and reproduce less than organisms less suited to that environment when the whole population lives in a desert? True, the reproduction aspect matters more, hence why traits which benefit reproduction at the cost of reducing survival chances persist, but the pattern remains nevertheless. In order for this "assumption" to be wrong, organisms which have a harder time surviving and reproducing should have their traits persist equally well or better than organisms that reproduce and survive easily. You might be able to find individual examples of that happening, but you'll never see that as a general trend in nature.


There is no evidence for this apart from the assumption that natural selection being an all powerful creative mechanism based on some simple examples.
It's far from all powerful; for example, as long as a trait doesn't outright prevent survival/reproduction, it has the capacity to persist even if it is detrimental. Especially if the detrimental effect begins after the organism has already reproduced (an example of this in humans is Huntington's disease).

Furthermore, natural selection can only act on traits that appear within a population, it cannot force mutations to go in a specific direction. As a result, what usually persists amounts to "good enough", not ideal traits for survival. This is why the majority of species have gone extinct.


In reality there are limintations.
-_- many creationists have suggested as much, but no actual limitations on how much mutations can change a genome have ever been presented. The closest you can get to that is knowing that specific mutations on specific genes will result in death or infertility if they occur by themselves in a specific species.

The idea that a blind and random process can reproduce consistently the same outcomes right down to the genetic level regardles of the relationship between creatures or their environmental circumstances calls for massive coincidence and odds.
-_- I've mentioned before that it isn't random. Even mutations, the most random aspect of evolution, are not truly random, because certain segments of DNA are far more prone to mutation than others, and true randomness demands that all possibilities be equally probable. For example, one of the most mutation prone segments of DNA in humans is a region related to brain development, while the HOX genes almost never mutate by comparison.

What mutations do not do, however, is ensure a population will end up with genes that will benefit survival well enough to prevent eventual extinction. Which is why most species have ended up going extinct.

It is better explained by mechanisms that are designed to produce certain forms over and over again and are self organising and predictable through processes like development and self directed change.
Such a mechanism would not explain genetic defects and extinction outside of human interference very well. Plus, the "repeating forms" can very easily be explained by the fact that despite environmental changes over time, many traits which are beneficial for specific niches remain as such (for example, body shapes that reduce drag in water in aquatic organisms). If there was really such a framework as you imply, then why aren't identical genes the result of these reappearing traits? Why are the genes that shape a dolphin so dissimilar to the ones that shape a shark despite the immense similarities in their bodily shapes and the environment in which they live?


There are certain genes which program for certain features that are the same for all living things such as eyes.
This isn't true. All vertebrates have great similarity in terms of the eye relevant genes, but this is not the case with invertebrates. Certain traits are so beneficial for survival that they will appear multiple times in a very similar fashion despite having entirely different genes contribute to them. Last I checked, it was estimated that eyes evolved independently more than 1000 times.

The variation is just a matter of those genes being switched on or off. This genetic info was already there to produce these features.
-_- by that logic, all humans have genes for all eye colors, and which one you end up with is a matter of chance and environment. This is not the case. Gene activation and inactivation is not sufficient to explain variety in phenotype in populations completely. Furthermore, we have sequenced the genomes of large populations of our own species and thus know for a fact that many of the variations within our species are a matter of genetic differences, not differences in genetic expression.

Consider identical twins, including ones that were separated at birth. Exactly how different do those people end up being, even if they end up in entirely different environments? Usually not very different at all. All differences between such twins would have to be the result of environmental influence and differences in genetic expression, yet, how they develop is mostly the same no matter what, generally amounting to making them just different enough that you could tell them apart and little more.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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As I accept the established science I dont need to support my views.

Its you who make wild unsupported claims that need to step up to the challenge. As you cant, you loose.

Hmm, Ptolemy's followers said the exact same thing as you when it was the accepted science of the day. Imagine that.... Too bad they all turned out to be wrong.

I've supported every one of mine.

Asian mates with Asian and produce only Asian. African mate with African and produce only African. Only when Asian and African mate is variation seen in the species. Neither the Asian nor African evolve into the Afro-Asian. The Afro-Asian appears suddenly in the record without transitory forms.

Just as in the fossil record. All creatures for each type remain the same from the oldest to the youngest found for that type. New forms appear suddenly without transitory forms. You just can't observe mating from a pile of bones.

You have yet to counter a single fact, because facts can't be countered.

I believe it is you that asks everyone to put faith in that it takes millions of years of mutation to affect a change, when that has never once been observed...... But contrary to your assertions we see variation occur every day from mating. Granted, they incorrectly classify half of them, but hey, people do weird things in the name of their beliefs.
 
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VirOptimus

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Hmm, Ptolemy's followers said the exact same thing as you when it was the accepted science of the day. Imagine that.... Too bad they all turned out to be wrong.

I've supported every one of mine.

Asian mates with Asian and produce only Asian. African mate with African and produce only African. Only when Asian and African mate is variation seen in the species. Neither the Asian nor African evolve into the Afro-Asian. The Afro-Asian appears suddenly in the record without transitory forms.

Just as in the fossil record. All creatures for each type remain the same from the oldest to the youngest found for that type. New forms appear suddenly without transitory forms. You just can't observe mating from a pile of bones.

You have yet to counter a single fact, because facts can't be countered.

I believe it is you that asks everyone to put faith in that it takes millions of years of mutation to affect a change, when that has never once been observed...... But contrary to your assertions we see variation occur every day from mating. Granted, they incorrectly classify half of them, but hey, people do weird things in the name of their beliefs.

You dont even understand the difference between belief and science. Hilarious.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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You dont even understand the difference between belief and science. Hilarious.
Hmm. Ptolemy thought his belief was science...... Just like you think your belief is..... Imagine that.
 
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drjean

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I’ve found God, says man who cracked the genome
Steven Swinford


June 11 2006, 1:00am, The Sunday Times

THE scientist who led the team that cracked the human genome is to publish a book explaining why he now believes in the existence of God and is convinced that miracles are real.

Francis Collins, the director of the US National Human Genome Research Institute, claims there is a rational basis for a creator and that scientific discoveries bring man "closer to God".

His book, The Language of God, to be published in September, will reopen the age-old debate about the relationship between science and faith. "One of the great tragedies of our time is this impression that has been created that science and religion have to be at war," said Collins, 56.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ive-found-god-says-man-who-cracked-the-genome-qxlhgwjvb0z

Is God Real?
Science gives ample reason to believe in God. Why is DNA important?
British philosopher, Dr. Antony Flew, was a leading spokesperson for atheism, actively involved in debate after debate. However, scientific discoveries within the last 30 years brought him to a conclusion he could not avoid. In a video interview in December 2004 he stated, "Super-intelligence is the only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature."1 Prominent in his conclusion were the discoveries of DNA.
https://www.everystudent.com/wires/Godreal.html

Dr. Francis Collins, director of the Human Genome Project (that mapped the human DNA structure) said that one can "think of DNA as an instructional script, a software program, sitting in the nucleus of the cell."5

Perry Marshall, an information specialist, comments on the implications of this. "There has never existed a computer program that wasn't designed...[whether it is] a code, or a program, or a message given through a language, there is always an intelligent mind behind it."

When looking at the DNA structure within the human body, we cannot escape the presence of intelligent (incredibly intelligent) design.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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I’ve found God, says man who cracked the genome
Steven Swinford


June 11 2006, 1:00am, The Sunday Times

THE scientist who led the team that cracked the human genome is to publish a book explaining why he now believes in the existence of God and is convinced that miracles are real.

Francis Collins, the director of the US National Human Genome Research Institute, claims there is a rational basis for a creator and that scientific discoveries bring man "closer to God".

His book, The Language of God, to be published in September, will reopen the age-old debate about the relationship between science and faith. "One of the great tragedies of our time is this impression that has been created that science and religion have to be at war," said Collins, 56.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ive-found-god-says-man-who-cracked-the-genome-qxlhgwjvb0z

Is God Real?
Science gives ample reason to believe in God. Why is DNA important?
British philosopher, Dr. Antony Flew, was a leading spokesperson for atheism, actively involved in debate after debate. However, scientific discoveries within the last 30 years brought him to a conclusion he could not avoid. In a video interview in December 2004 he stated, "Super-intelligence is the only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature."1 Prominent in his conclusion were the discoveries of DNA.
https://www.everystudent.com/wires/Godreal.html

Dr. Francis Collins, director of the Human Genome Project (that mapped the human DNA structure) said that one can "think of DNA as an instructional script, a software program, sitting in the nucleus of the cell."5

Perry Marshall, an information specialist, comments on the implications of this. "There has never existed a computer program that wasn't designed...[whether it is] a code, or a program, or a message given through a language, there is always an intelligent mind behind it."

When looking at the DNA structure within the human body, we cannot escape the presence of intelligent (incredibly intelligent) design.

This has zero relevance to the OP.
 
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Jimmy D

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My claims are one and all supported by science. It's your PR distortion of science it doesn't fit, and rightly so....

How does my post show a distortion of science?

Yah, need we go to the old post on finches were you spent page after page arguing against it???? Oh, did you forget about that already in your zeal to spout your propaganda????

Please show any post of mine that shows any disagreement with the Grant's research or retract your accusation.

And I believe I have said before that mutation may affect a small change - once in a blue moon....

Nice one!

I seem to remember you claiming recently that it's impossible for a mutation to become fixed win a population, it's good to see you're coming round.
 
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stevevw

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I have already adressed your misconceptions. Your articles does not support your claims. Write the authors.
You have said this several times now and so out of interest I thought I would go back and take a look at whether you have addressed what I have said. Out of 80 plus posts you have made to various people in this thread you have only once elaborated on anything I or anyone else has said. The stock standard reply is “you don’t understand” and “learn the science” without any elaboration on how. It is like a dismissal without explanation. There is only one time on this thread where you elaborated which was here

#830 -VirOptimus
No, you haven’t. And the science does not support your ideas. All scientists agree that the overwhelmingly strongest force in evolution is natural selection. The papers you quote says that there are other minor processes also and there are ...

I think I have more than shown that you are wrong on this with what I have posted. First to say that 100% of scientists agree with Neo-Darwinism cannot be a claim that is upheld because it is not and cannot be correct. Secondly to say they think natural selection is “overwhelmingly” the strongest force in evolution is another extreme statement that is easily disproved in that it only takes one or two to say it is not overwhelming the strongest. That I beleive has been shown adequately by the following


Among other consequences, the extended framework overcomes many of the limitations of traditional gene-centric explanation and entails a revised understanding of the role of natural selection in the evolutionary process.

the diversity of organismal form is only partly a consequence of natural selection—the particular evolutionary trajectories taken also depend on features of development.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4632619/

Natural selection, the cornerstone of the MS theory so intimately linked to both gradualism and adaptationism, has itself been the subject of a fair share of critical debate. In this case, it is not so much the principle itself that is contested, but the uniqueness of the causal agency that has been ascribed to it.

Numerous authors have challenged the pervasiveness of natural selection as a unique ‘force’ of evolution, whereas others have questioned whether the individual is the sole and appropriate ‘target’ of selection or whether other levels of selection at supra- and infra-individual levels also need to be included in selectionist scenarios [4244].

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5566817/

The researchers also argue that natural selection isn't necessarily the primary force in evolution - the limitations of development and the environments organisms live in can also play a role.


This new hypothesis of evolution is called the extended evolutionary synthesis, and it's been outlined in a paper in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B by researchers led by Kevin Laland, an evolutionary biologist from the University of St Andrews in Scotland.


"It’s not simply bolting more mechanisms on what we already have," Laland explained to Zimmer. "It requires you to think of causation in a different way."

https://www.sciencealert.com/the-wo...to-discuss-whether-we-should-update-evolution

While much of the evolutionary biology community resists the notion of an evolutionary framework that begins to consider the role of determinants beyond the gene, as the Extended Synthesis does, the momentum of the new synthesis is undeniable (see Google for "the Altenberg 16"). And there are other scientists and philosophers of science--avowed non-creationists--who say the Extended Synthesis does not go far enough in relegating natural selection to a reduced role.
https://archive.archaeology.org/online/interviews/newman.html
 
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VirOptimus

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You have said this several times now and so out of interest I thought I would go back and take a look at whether you have addressed what I have said. Out of 80 plus posts you have made to various people in this thread you have only once elaborated on anything I or anyone else has said. The stock standard reply is “you don’t understand” and “learn the science” without any elaboration on how. It is like a dismissal without explanation. There is only one time on this thread where you elaborated which was here

#830 -VirOptimus
No, you haven’t. And the science does not support your ideas. All scientists agree that the overwhelmingly strongest force in evolution is natural selection. The papers you quote says that there are other minor processes also and there are ...

I think I have more than shown that you are wrong on this with what I have posted. First to say that 100% of scientists agree with Neo-Darwinism cannot be a claim that is upheld because it is not and cannot be correct. Secondly to say they think natural selection is “overwhelmingly” the strongest force in evolution is another extreme statement that is easily disproved in that it only takes one or two to say it is not overwhelming the strongest. That I beleive has been shown adequately by the following


Among other consequences, the extended framework overcomes many of the limitations of traditional gene-centric explanation and entails a revised understanding of the role of natural selection in the evolutionary process.

the diversity of organismal form is only partly a consequence of natural selection—the particular evolutionary trajectories taken also depend on features of development.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4632619/

Natural selection, the cornerstone of the MS theory so intimately linked to both gradualism and adaptationism, has itself been the subject of a fair share of critical debate. In this case, it is not so much the principle itself that is contested, but the uniqueness of the causal agency that has been ascribed to it.

Numerous authors have challenged the pervasiveness of natural selection as a unique ‘force’ of evolution, whereas others have questioned whether the individual is the sole and appropriate ‘target’ of selection or whether other levels of selection at supra- and infra-individual levels also need to be included in selectionist scenarios [4244].

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5566817/

The researchers also argue that natural selection isn't necessarily the primary force in evolution - the limitations of development and the environments organisms live in can also play a role.


This new hypothesis of evolution is called the extended evolutionary synthesis, and it's been outlined in a paper in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B by researchers led by Kevin Laland, an evolutionary biologist from the University of St Andrews in Scotland.


"It’s not simply bolting more mechanisms on what we already have," Laland explained to Zimmer. "It requires you to think of causation in a different way."

https://www.sciencealert.com/the-wo...to-discuss-whether-we-should-update-evolution

While much of the evolutionary biology community resists the notion of an evolutionary framework that begins to consider the role of determinants beyond the gene, as the Extended Synthesis does, the momentum of the new synthesis is undeniable (see Google for "the Altenberg 16"). And there are other scientists and philosophers of science--avowed non-creationists--who say the Extended Synthesis does not go far enough in relegating natural selection to a reduced role.
https://archive.archaeology.org/online/interviews/newman.html

No, you havent shown that I’m wrong. You have however shown that you dont understand the science.

Natural selection is the strongest force in evolution, that isnt even debateble. Your articles does not claim that natural selection isnt the strongest force in the ToE.
 
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stevevw

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-_- tell me, in what universe do the individuals in a population better at surviving in a desert die more frequently and reproduce less than organisms less suited to that environment when the whole population lives in a desert? True, the reproduction aspect matters more, hence why traits which benefit reproduction at the cost of reducing survival chances persist, but the pattern remains nevertheless. In order for this "assumption" to be wrong, organisms which have a harder time surviving and reproducing should have their traits persist equally well or better than organisms that reproduce and survive easily. You might be able to find individual examples of that happening, but you'll never see that as a general trend in nature.
I am not disputing that the creatures with the best features for surviving in a desert are not the ones that will survive and reproduce. The point is that you are assuming that it is natural selection that selects these features in the first place. That is what scientists who support the EES are saying that development processes like development bias, plasticity and inclusive inheritence and self-organising abilities with niche construction can produce suitable and well-integrated features that allow living things to adapt and survive in their environments. The issue is some think in adaptive terms for everything and make natural selection an all powerful force when it is not.

Because these features are well suited and integrated natural selection plays a minor role or is bypassed altogether. The enviromental pressures can trigger a creatures development system to produce the type of change they need becuase their biological systems are in tune with the environment. Living things can also change their enviroment to help them survive such as change soil composition, build nests, live underground, etc. These processes do not stem from random mutations to produce the variation or natural selection to select them. Selection may play a smaller role in cementing the feature but it has been primarily produced as a well suited and integrated change, to begin with.

It's far from all powerful; for example, as long as a trait doesn't outright prevent survival/reproduction, it has the capacity to persist even if it is detrimental. Especially if the detrimental effect begins after the organism has already reproduced (an example of this in humans is Huntington's disease).
That may be the case but the point is becuase Neo-Darwinism takes an adaptive and gene centred view it then gives natural selection the dominant role in how creatures adapt to their environment to survive. Many evolutionists make natural selection all powerful. Dawkins comes to mind.

It has long been known that natural selection is just one of several mechanisms of evolutionary change, but the myth that all of evolution can be explained by adaptation continues to be perpetuated by our continued homage to Darwin's treatise (6) in the popular literature. For example, Dawkins' (79) agenda to spread the word on the awesome power of natural selection has been quite successful, but it has come at the expense of reference to any other mechanisms, a view that is in some ways profoundly misleading.
http://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/104/suppl_1/8597.full.pdf


Furthermore, natural selection can only act on traits that appear within a population, it cannot force mutations to go in a specific direction. As a result, what usually persists amounts to "good enough", not ideal traits for survival. This is why the majority of species have gone extinct.
As mentioned above the EES mentions other processes that do produce variation that is biased towards a certain form over others. So in that sense, it gives direction to evolutionary change.

-_- many creationists have suggested as much, but no actual limitations on how much mutations can change a genome have ever been presented. The closest you can get to that is knowing that specific mutations on specific genes will result in death or infertility if they occur by themselves in a specific species.
This has been demonstrated and not be creationists but mainstream scientists.

The waiting time problem in a model hominin population

We show that the waiting time problem becomes very severe when more than one mutation is required to establish a new function. On a practical level, the waiting time problem greatly inhibits the establishment of any new function that requires any string or set of specific linked co-dependent mutations. For nucleotide strings of moderate length (eight or above), waiting times will typically exceed the estimated age of the universe – even when using highly favourable settings.
The waiting time problem in a model hominin population

Simulating evolution by gene duplication of protein features that require multiple amino acid residues.
We conclude that, in general, to be fixed in 10(8) generations, the production of novel protein features that require the participation of two or more amino acid residues simply by multiple point mutations in duplicated genes would entail population sizes of no less than 10(9).
Simulating evolution by gene duplication of protein features that require multiple amino acid residues. - PubMed - NCB
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Nice one!

I seem to remember you claiming recently that it's impossible for a mutation to become fixed win a population, it's good to see you're coming round.

You could at least report it accurately. In a large population a mutation will never become fixed in the general population..... That a mutation might have an effect once in a blue moon.... and it becoming fized in a population are two different things.

Which is why the only paper presented by a fellow evolutionary compadre of yours required we calculate for a "static" population..... of "finite" size.....

I'll freely admit that a mutation in one of your descendants may one day (a blue moon) make a beneficial change, that will never fix itself in the general population unless the rest of the population dies off, so that your descendants are the entire population... perhaps because of a flood maybe.....
 
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Jimmy D

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You could at least report it accurately. In a large population a mutation will never become fixed in the general population..... That a mutation might have an effect once in a blue moon.... and it becoming fized in a population are two different things.

Thanks for clarifying your views.

Which is why the only paper presented by a fellow evolutionary compadre of yours required we calculate for a "static" population..... of "finite" size.....

I'm not sure which paper or compadre you're referring to exactly. What's wrong with calculating for a ""static" population..... of "finite" size....." though? Do you not believe such things exist?

I'll freely admit that a mutation in one of your descendants may one day (a blue moon) make a beneficial change, that will never fix itself in the general population unless the rest of the population dies off, so that your descendants are the entire population... perhaps because of a flood maybe.....

You're welcome to your beliefs, let's not pretend that they don't run counter to the scientific consensus though.

One more thing...

Yah, need we go to the old post on finches were you spent page after page arguing against it???? Oh, did you forget about that already in your zeal to spout your propaganda????

I will ask for a second time where I argued against the Grant's research, it's not the first time you've made unsubstantiated accusations against me then ignored my response or failed to retract them. Show a bit of decency for a change.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Some of us appose it because the science doesn't live up to the propaganda.

Asian mates with Asian and produces ONLY Asian. African mates with African and produces ONLY African. Only when Asian mates with African is variation seen within the species. neither the Asian nor the African evolves into the Afro-Asian.

In fact the Asian remains Asian, the African remains African and the Afro-Asian appears suddenly in the record where it never existed before.

Just like in the fossil record where every creature found remains the same from the oldest one found for that type to the youngest one found for that type. then just as we observe in real life, new forms appear suddenly where they never existed before. You just cant tell what mated with what from a pile of bones.

We can apply this to all life on this planet. Minus the incorrect species classifications.

Lions mate with Lions and produce only Lions. Tigers mate with Tigers and produce only Tigers. only when Lions mate with Tigers does variation occur in the species - the Liger.

Grizzly mates with Grizzly and produces only Grizzly. Polar bear mates with Polar bear and produces only Polar bear. Only when Grizzly mates with Polar bear does variation occur in the species - Grolar.

They have simply incorrectly classified them as separate species. Both in the here and now and in the past.

And finches. You don't even want to get into finches, that's an evolutionists worst nightmare....

2 things are apparant to me from this post...


1. you don't seem to have the courage/honesty to admit that your objection to mainstream biology is religiously motivated

2. you don't actually understand the science that you are trying to argue against.
 
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