The Fossil Record Proves Speciation, Not Evolution of Lifeforms Observed

[juvenissun]

Lab GM hasn't been around 100 years, so there won't be direct evidence - but we've been modifying genetics by laborious hybridization for thousands of years, and many lab GM organisms are modified by direct genetic transfer in lieu of hybridization (i.e. it's far quicker, cheaper, and more precise) the result is that the lab GM organism has only the desired gene(s), whereas in the hybrid they're typically accompanied by a bunch of transferred genes that were not required or desired (i.e. lab GM is 'cleaner', more precise).

If the hybrids can thrive for thousands of years (and not all are domesticated), there's no reason to suppose lab GM organisms should thrive any less than the imprecisely modified hybrids - unless, of course, we explicitly include modifications - at some extra expense - to prevent them thriving in the wild, as is often done.

Hybridization. What can you make?
Goat A + Goat B --> Wolf A ?

 

[Brightmoon]

Ironically you used the word goat. Goatgrass 1 And a wheat species hybridized to produce macaroni wheat by doubling the chromosomes. This is an allopolyploid species. This gets better goatgras is in a different genus than wheat. This gets even better this new species hybridized with a second goat grass species and formed our bread wheat. You silly ideas of distantly related species like goats and wolves mating or being descendants NEVER happens

 

[Brightmoon]

A second example of this GM happening in nature is our own chromosome 2. Chromosome 2 is a fusion of two small ape chromosomes . The other apes have 24 pairs and humans have 23. ( humans are classified as apes- family Hominidae) . All 4 telomeres are there and both centromeres although one is non-functional. A third example is the virus gene that human females need to produce a viable placenta during pregnancy. If that is missing or defective the woman will miscarry.

 

[Brightmoon]

As you can tell I’m not an evolution denier. I’m not an atheist either. Not that one has anything to do with the other. Evolution is the FACT that life changes over time and over geological timescales it has changed a lot. (I’m not a young earther either)

 

[Brightmoon]

Oops Didn’t finish my thought. Atheism is a belief that gods and/or goddesses don’t exist. Which has nothing to do with a directly observed phenomenon like evolution

 

[stevevw]

Most GM is about the introduction of a genetic material from another organism or bacteria that may help a crop of animal resist certain diseases or produce a particular quality. But that genetic maateril is already there and often it is about switch on and off or manipulating existing genetic material. They can even grow an ear on the back of a mouse or a create flies with extra wings or even grow eyes on their backs. This is done by tinkering the hox genes responsible for those features. They can produce those features in one go without any gradual evolution morphing the feature bit by bit. There is no new info created that would grow one creatures part on a different creature unless they purposely inserted that genetic sequence into the new creature. That is why it is called genetically modified as in modifying existing genetic info and not creating new.

So they are relying on the already produced genes and if anything it is supporting HGT more than anything. But like some have said this is playing around with nature and it can lead to having bad effects on nature such as disrupting biodiversity. We dont know of the long term consequences yet. It shows that nature does it best and that is why life is able to tap into existing genetic material within themselves or with other creatures they co-habibtate with to be able to adapt to their enviroments. Most of life have a near universeal code and there is evidence that this code was around from the beginning. So that means life already had the complex genetic info that it can tap or share that genetic info to change.

 

[Brightmoon]

That virus gene I mentioned that’s crucial for a full term pregnancy in humans .That was new information for the human genome. You have the rather odd ideas that new information means a random string of amino acids that somehow form a functional gene . This does happen but it’s rare . What happens more often is a genetic sequence becomes usable by a copying mistake. Protein synthesis is speeded up or slowed down by changing that third amino acid in the transfer rna . Having the genes turn on in another location ( for example the antifreeze protein in the blood of arctic fish is a modified digestive protein) . There are a lot of things that happen to genetic information and this doesn’t even cover the proteins and what happens to them after they’re synthesized . Then there are pseudogenes which have a regulatory effect. Etc etc etc all new information for a particular species.

 

[Brightmoon]

Basically and most people who complain about GM don’t realize this . Viruses and bacteria are notorious for swapping DNA with other organisms. And bits and pieces of DNA floating around from dead organisms gets switched into the viruses or bacteria as well. GM is based on a natural phenomena. And yes this can cause microevolution . The only GM macroevolution I know about is plant hybrids that form new species

 

[Brightmoon]

That ear on the back of a mouse was actually growing human cells cultured on a artificial collagen matrix attached to a mouse that had its immune system altered to accept human cells. Pretty cool technology for the time but poor mouse.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Hybridization. What can you make?
Goat A + Goat B --> Wolf A ?

No. Why would you even suggest that? That could never happen naturally or artificially.

Hybridization is a way of getting desired traits (genes) from one variety or closely related species to another - GMO using natural mechanisms.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

That ear on the back of a mouse was actually growing human cells cultured on a artificial collagen matrix attached to a mouse that had its immune system altered to accept human cells. Pretty cool technology for the time but poor mouse.

Welcome to the forum Brightmoon - it's good to have another Christian on board who knows their biology!

 

[juvenissun]

No. Why would you even suggest that? That could never happen naturally or artificially.

Hybridization is a way of getting desired traits (genes) from one variety or closely related species to another - GMO using natural mechanisms.

It does NOT create new species.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Hybridization. What can you make?
Goat A + Goat B --> Wolf A ?

The fact that you think that combining Goat A and Goat B will produce a wolf instead of Goat C shows that you REALLY understand nothing about evolution.

 

[Brightmoon]

It does NOT create new species.

Yes it does and quite easily at that allopolyploid and autopolyploid species are quite common especially in plants . S species of roses , the wheats I’ve already mentioned ,corn,tomatoes, just a lot of agricultural species . I have no idea how that bolded sorry

 

[Brightmoon]

In the fossil record Cerion mollusks. Two species hybridized and formed a third . I only remember the name of one of the species and don’t feel like looking it up- C. excelsior . This happened naturally

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

It does NOT create new species.

It can do; it depends on the significance of the changes.

The capitalized certainty with which you make these easily checkable errors is telling.

 

[juvenissun]

Yes it does and quite easily at that allopolyploid and autopolyploid species are quite common especially in plants . S species of roses , the wheats I’ve already mentioned ,corn,tomatoes, just a lot of agricultural species . I have no idea how that bolded sorry

Animals, not plants.

 

[juvenissun]

It can do; it depends on the significance of the changes.

It has not happen yet. You do not know.
All you have is a faith, which, according to you, is foolish.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

It has not happen yet. You do not know.
All you have is a faith, which, according to you, is foolish.

Or are you just refusing to look?

 

[Speedwell]

Animals, not plants.

Why not? Don't you care if plants evolve? What about the other kingdoms?