The Formation of the Bible Cannon

~Anastasia~

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There are bumps in any organization involving human beings. But what I mean is that even when those happen, we can all commune in each other's Churches. Jersusalem hasn't left Antioch, etc.

(Unless you mean the non-Chalcedonians, but I didn't want to over-complicate things in this thread, especially for a rabbit-trail.) :)
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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There are bumps in any organization involving human beings. But what I mean is that even when those happen, we can all commune in each other's Churches. Jersusalem hasn't left Antioch, etc.

(Unless you mean the non-Chalcedonians, but I didn't want to over-complicate things in this thread, especially for a rabbit-trail.) :)
The rabbit trail of recieving communion in each other churches is another fallacy. Jftr
 
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Ron Gurley

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The "canon" of Scripture is defined as the books of the Bible officially accepted as Holy Scripture. Written by about forty authors over the course of 1500 years, it was essential that a list be drawn up of the books which reflected the truth of God's message and were inspired by the Holy Spirit.

What is the canon of the Bible and how did we get it?

What is the canon of the Bible and how did we get it?

“Church councils” played a role in publicly recognizing the canon of Scripture, but often an individual church or groups of churches recognized a book as inspired from its writing (e.g., Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Throughout the early centuries of the church, few books were ever disputed and the list was basically settled by A.D. 303…

The Roman Catholic Apocrypha did not measure up and fell outside the definition of Scripture and has never been accepted by the Jews….

Ultimately, the church councils did not decide if a book was Scripture; that was decided when the human author was chosen by God to write. In order to accomplish the end result, including the preservation of His Word through the centuries, God guided the early church councils in their recognition of the canon.

What is the canon of Scripture?
 
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TuxAme

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The Roman Catholic Apocrypha did not measure up and fell outside the definition of Scripture and has never been accepted by the Jews….
Jews were a diverse people, and the Greek speaking ones largely accepted the Deuterocanon. So, to say that it was never accepted by them is false. It wasn't accepted by all Jews, but nor was the belief in the resurrection of the dead, so there's that.

Ultimately, the church councils did not decide if a book was Scripture; that was decided when the human author was chosen by God to write. In order to accomplish the end result, including the preservation of His Word through the centuries, God guided the early church councils in their recognition of the canon.
It took the councils to elevate the Scriptures to that level. The fact that they were divinely inspired is a separate issue, even though being divinely inspired is a prerequisite for being included in the canon. These councils were guided by God, protected from error.
 
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Ron Gurley

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The "councils" did not "elevate the Scriptures". They were simply spirit-led men who interpreted Scripture.

2 Peter 1 (NASB)
19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.
20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,
21 for no prophecy (revelation) was ever made by an act of human will,
but men moved by (God) the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
 
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TuxAme

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The "councils" did not "elevate the Scriptures". They were simply spirit-led men who interpreted Scripture.

2 Peter 1 (NASB)
19 So we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.
20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,
21 for no prophecy (revelation) was ever made by an act of human will,
but men moved by (God) the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
I never said that these men weren't moved by God to do so, so I'm not seeing your point. I made it a point to say that the Scriptures were divinely inspired.
 
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~Anastasia~

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There was no "RCC" at the time Scripture was canonized. There was only THE Church - no schisms.

Councils recognized Scripture officially, but it had been a process of local Churches (having been taught by the Apostles) recognizing Truth as delivered to them in letters and writings. The true ones were accepted and read and eventually canonized.

The Jewish texts referred to when excluding some of the OT were decided by Jews centuries after the canonization of Scripture by the early Church - and we ought to keep in mind that Jewish religious leaders were decidedly anti-Christian and might not be the most reliable sources for our beliefs.

Rather the original OT canon was based on the Septuagint, which was the common Scriptures in use at the time of Christ, and which were quoted by Christ as His Apostles.

As the saying goes, "If it was good enough for them, it's good enough for me!" ;)

More importantly, we ought not let anti-Catholic bias (especially when it was not the RCC that canonized Scripture) color our view such that we fail to accept what Christ's own Church handed down to us.
 
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Monna

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They were simply spirit-led men who interpreted Scripture.

It would be nice to know who they were and how they were selected. It would also be interesting to see the records of the meetings they had regarding the acceptance of respected writings.

Can you point to websites or references? I would appreciate it.
 
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Philip_B

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PROVE by ancient writings that God used EXCLUSIVELY the RCC to canonize Scripture!!
RCC is a meaningless term in the period we are talking about.
 
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tz620q

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Ultimately, the church councils did not decide if a book was Scripture; that was decided when the human author was chosen by God to write. In order to accomplish the end result, including the preservation of His Word through the centuries, God guided the early church councils in their recognition of the canon.

That does leave the question open as to whether you use the canon that God guided these men to proclaim.
 
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Mathetes66

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One of the amazing things about the Bible we have today that has been passed down & recognized for almost 2000 years--is this: it already gives us almost all the books of the Bible within it at the time of the apostles! It also shows when the OT canon was closed by Jesus Himself.

Jesus several times gives the Hebrew divisions of the Tenakh or Old Testament, including all the Hebrew Scriptures. They had them all in Jesus' day! Sometimes it takes awhile for the rest of mankind to realize it--we are so slow of heart to believe & dull of hearing.

The Dead Sea Scrolls are an amazing collection of all the OT books except Esther. They even have an almost 22 foot scroll of Isaiah, which is 99% accurate to the Isaiah scrolls that Jews have that were almost 1000 years older.

Jesus spoke of the 3 divisions of the Jewish OT: the Torah (Pentateuch or Law of Moses), the Nevi'im or the Prophets & the Ketuvim or the Writings.

They had ALL the Scriptures up until then, at the time of Christ! Jesus taught that Himself. And He should know. He is the living Word of God.

Luke 24:25-27 Then Jesus said to them, “O foolish ones, how slow are your hearts to believe all that THE PROPHETS have spoken. 26Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things & then to enter His glory?” 27And BEGINNING WITH MOSES then ALL THE PROPHETS, He explained to them what was WRITTEN IN ALL THE SCRIPTURES about Himself.

32 They asked one another, “Were not our hearts burning within us as He spoke with us on the road and opened the Scriptures to us?”

44Jesus said to them, “These are the words I spoke to you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about Me in THE LAW OF MOSES, THE PROPHETS & THE PSALMS.” 45Then He opened their minds to understand THE SCRIPTURES.

All the Scriptures (at that time): the Torah, the Nevi'im & the Writings (Psalms represented the Writings).

Jesus did it another time:

Matt 23:27ff Woe to you! You build tombs for the prophets, but it was your fathers who killed them. So you are witnesses who consent to the deeds of your fathers: They killed the prophets, and you build their tombs. Because of this, the Wisdom of God said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles; some of them they will kill and others they will persecute. As a result, this generation will be charged with the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the foundation of the world, from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar & the sanctuary.

Jesus covers again from the beginning (since the foundation of the world), starting with Abel in the first book of the OT Scriptures, Genesis & then ending the Tenakh with Zechariah (mentioned in the last book of the Hebrew Tenakh, 2 Chronicles). From Genesis to 2 Chronicles.

Luke 18:31 Then Jesus took the Twelve aside & said to them, "Look, we are going up to Jerusalem & everything the prophets have written about the Son of Man will be fulfilled.

Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 1:1,2 In the past God spoke to our ancestors THROUGH THE PROPHETS at many times & in various ways, but in these LAST DAYS HE HAS SPOKEN to us BY HIS SON, whom He appointed heir of all things & through whom He made the universe.

2 Pet 1:18-21 And we ourselves heard this voice from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain. We also have the word of the prophets as fully confirmed beyond doubt. And you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns & the morning star rises in your hearts.

Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own private interpretation of things. For no such prophecy was ever brought about (came) through human initiative (will of man), but men spoke from God as they were carried along (borne along, moved) by the Holy Spirit.

John 16:12-15 I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will GUIDE YOU INTO ALL THE TRUTH. For He will not speak on His own authority, but will speak whatever He hears & will tell you WHAT IS TO COME 14He will glorify Me, because He will RECEIVE FROM ME what is Mine & will tell it to you. 15Everything that the Father has is Mine; that is why I said the Spirit will receive from Me what is Mine and will tell it to you.

Matt 23:8,10, But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher & you are all brothers...for you have one Instructor, the Christ...Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your fathers. 33You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape the sentence of hell (Gehenna)? 34BECAUSE OF THIS, I am sending you PROPHETS & WISE MEN AND SCRIBES... Some of them you will kill & crucify & others you will FLOG in your synagogues & persecute in town after town.

The books of the New Testament (NT) were written a short time later:

#1 because Jesus had many more things to say to the apostles & also the apostles were not yet ready to bear them yet (16:12)

#2 because the apostles had to go through persecution & even flogging (the Apostle Paul is an example) before they & those associated with them would write down the NT books AS CHRIST'S SENT SCRIBES TO WRITE DOWN HIS SPOKEN WORDS THROUGH THE MOVING & GUIDANCE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT & NOT COMING FROM THEIR OWN PRIVATE, HUMAN SELF INTERPRETATION.

#3 Because of the danger of hell, the apostles were too busy at first preaching the gospel, seeing people saved & establishing the church.

#4 because the gospel had to be preached to the Gentiles, the nations & thus for example, the 4 gospels were written at different times & ways to reach a certain audience. Remember again how the OT was given (Heb 1:1). So it was with these last days, when Jesus would give to the Holy Spirit the words of the NT (Heb 1:2) & He would bring it to Jesus' SCRIBES (those who wrote down the Scriptures), bringing to their remembrance what Jesus said.

#5 because Jesus had at the right time revealed Himself to the Apostle Paul & used him as 'His instrument' of word & writing to see the gospel proclaimed to the nations.

#6 because the timing had to coincide with writing it in the well known trade language of Greek & with the ability to rapidly spread the written NT gospels & epistles over the large Roman empire.

Jesus does a beautiful job of tying the OT to the NT & covering the gap of the 400 years of intertestamental time. Since Malachi no prophet spoke. There was a silence. Jesus now ties His forerunner, John the Baptist, with Malachi's final prophecy of a forerunner coming in the spirit & power of Elijah--to open the way for the Messiah & the proclamation of the good news of His coming kingdom.

Thus all the OT was until John. It was closed with John being that last one of the OT type.

Thus, Jesus Christ effectively CLOSES THE OT CANON! He has that authority & in order to make the way for the New Covenant & the NT writings concerning the gospel of the the kingdom of the gracious God.

Luke 16:16,17 "THE LAW & THE PROPHETS WERE PROCLAIMED UNTIL JOHN. Since that time, the GOSPEL of the kingdom of God IS BEING PREACHED & everyone is forcing his way into it. But it is easier for heaven & earth to pass away than for a single stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law."

Listen to Rabbi Singer describe the findings of the Dead Sea Scrolls & the accuracy of the OT Tenakh.

John 1:16-18 From His fullness we have all received grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace & truth came through Jesus Christ.

Matt 11:7-15 After Jesus had finished instructing His twelve disciples, He went on from there to teach & preach in the nearby towns. 2Meanwhile, John heard in prison about the works of Christ, and he sent two of his disciples 3to ask Him, “Are You the One who was to come, or should we look for someone else?”

4Jesus replied, “Go back and report to John what you hear and see: 5The blind receive sight, the lame walk, the lepersa are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and GOOD NEWS IS PREACHED to the poor. 6Blessed is the one who does not fall away on account of Me.”

As John’s disciples were leaving, Jesus began to speak to the crowds about John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed swaying in the wind? 8Otherwise, what did you go out to see? A man dressed in fine clothes? Look, those who wear fine clothing are found in kings’ palaces. 9What then did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you & MORE THAN A PROPHET. 10This is the one about whom it is written: ‘Behold, I will send My messenger ahead of You, who will PREPARE YOUR WAY before You.’

11Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has risen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet even the least in the kingdom of heaven is GREATER than he. 12From the days of John the Baptist UNTIL NOW, the kingdom of heaven has been subject to violence & the violent lay claim to it. 13 FOR ALL THE PROPHETS & THE LAW PROPHESIED UNTIL JOHN. 14And if you are willing to accept it, he is THE ELIJAH WHO WAS TO COME. 15He who has ears, let him hear.

"Up to the period of John the Baptist," said the Master, "the old state of things may be said to have continued in force. With Him began a new era; no longer were the old privileges to be confined to Israel exclusively; gradually the kingdom of God was to be enlarged, the old wall of separation was to be taken down. See, every man is pressing into it; the new state of things has already begun; you see it in the crowds of publicans, sinners, Samaritans & others pressing round me when I speak of the kingdom of God."

Luke 16:16-18. The law & the prophets were in force until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached — The gospel dispensation takes place & humble, upright men, receive it with inexpressible earnestness.(continued)
 
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Mathetes66

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Since that time, the kingdom of God is preached; the Gospel & the mysteries of relating to the kingdom of the Messiah, His person, office & grace; and to the kingdom of grace, which lies not in outward, but in inward & spiritual things & to the kingdom of heaven, or glory hereafter & which is a superior dispensation to that of the law & the prophets & sets things in a clearer, plainer & better light.

This is one of our Lord’s clearest intimations that the aeon of the Law & the Prophets was now merging into a new dispensation, since they were only “a shadow of things to come,” Col 2:17.

Luke 16:24-28 After John’s messengers had left, Jesus began to speak to the crowds about John: “What did you go out into the wilderness to see? A reed swaying in the wind? Otherwise, what did you go out to see? A man dressed in fine clothes? Look, those who wear elegant clothing and live in luxury are found in palaces.

What then did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I tell you, and more than a prophet. 27This is the one about whom it is written: ‘Behold, I will send My messenger ahead of You, who will prepare Your way before You.’ I tell you, among those born of women there is no one greater than John, yet even the least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.”

John the Baptist was the tie to bring the OT & the NT together.

We also have the Apostle Peter's testimony that ALL of the Apostle Paul's epistles were Scripture--before Peter died. He stated they were well known at the time & all knew they were Scripture just like the rest of the Scriptures. They had rapidly been passed on from apostolic church to apostolic church, just as several of the Gospels had been. (Col 4:16; I Thess 5:27) So we see that apostolic authority is one of the keys to knowing which books are Scripture & which are not, just like the prophets confirmed those books in the OT were Scripture.

2 Pet 3:15-17 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does IN ALL HIS LETTERS, when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant & unstable twist to their own destruction, AS THEY DO THE OTHER SCRIPTURES. 17You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people & lose your own stability.

We also know that the Gospel of Luke was also recognized as Scripture by a living apostle--Paul.

I Tim 5:17,18 Elders who lead effectively are worthy of double honor, especially those who work hard at preaching & teaching. For the Scripture says, "You shall not muzzle the ox that treads out the grain & "The laborer is worthy of his wages."

The first Scripture is found in Deut 25:4 & the second Scripture is found in Luke 10:7 "Remain in the same house, eating & drinking what they offer, FOR THE LABORER IS WORTHY OF HIS WAGES. Don't move from house to house."

This is apostolic confirmation that the Gospel of Luke is Scripture. Luke traveled around with Paul & could have easily had his gospel distributed along with Paul's epistles.

Thus, 53 of the books of the Bible were ALREADY CALLED SCRIPTURE by about 60AD! Then we have the gospel of Luke's initial verses.

Luke 1:1-4 Now many have undertaken to compile an account of the things that have been FULFILLED AMONG US, LIKE THE ACCOUNTS PASSED ON TO US BY THOSE WHO WERE EYEWITNESSES & SERVANTS OF THE WORD FROM THE BEGINNING. So it seemed good to me as well, because I have followed all things carefully from the beginning, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know for certain the things you were taught.

Here we have verification that other gospel accounts had already been written & passed on--those who were eyewitnesses. We have also accounts of the things that have been fulfilled among us. This would indicate that the two gospels, Matthew & Mark had already been written by this time & had already been passed around. The gospel of John was written later than the gospel of Luke. Also that other accounts, showing fulfillment, would indicate some of the epistles of the apostle Paul.

Luke demonstrates that he also is writing an orderly gospel account, JUST LIKE THE EARLIER ONES THAT HAVE BEEN PASSED DOWN.

Luke traveled with Paul & knew his epistles had been written, were passed on & were already recognized as Scripture, just as much as the OT books were Scripture & this is verified by the Apostle Peter, as previously mentioned.

Thus, we can reasonably count 55 books of the Bible were already considered Scripture by about 60AD.

Roman historian Colin Hemer has provided powerful evidence that Acts was written between AD 60 and 62. This evidence includes these observations:

1. There is no mention in Acts of the crucial event of the fall of Jerusalem in 70.
2. There is no hint of the outbreak of the Jewish War in 66 or of serious deterioration of relations between Romans and Jews before that time.
3. There is no hint of the deterioration of Christian relations with Rome during the Neronian persecution of the late 60s.
4. There is no hint of the death of James at the hands of the Sanhedrin in ca. 62, which is recorded by Josephus in Antiquities of the Jews (20.9.1.200).
5. The significance of Gallio's judgement in Acts 18:14-17 may be seen as setting precedent to legitimize Christian teaching under the umbrella of the tolerance extended to Judaism.
6. The prominence and authority of the Sadducees in Acts reflects a pre-70 date, before the collapse of their political cooperation with Rome.
7. The relatively sympathetic attitude in Acts to Pharisees (unlike that found even in Luke's Gospel) does not fit well with in the period of Pharisaic revival that led up to the council at Jamnia. At that time a new phase of conflict began with Christianity.
8. Acts seems to antedate the arrival of Peter in Rome and implies that Peter and John were alive at the time of the writing.
9. The prominence of 'God-fearers' in the synagogues may point to a pre-70 date, after which there were few Gentile inquiries and converts to Jerusalem.
10. Luke gives insignificant details of the culture of an early, Julio-Claudian period.
11. Areas of controversy described presume that the temple was still standing.
12. Adolf Harnack contended that Paul's prophecy in Acts 20:25 (cf. 20:38) may have been contradicted by later events. If so, the book must have appeared before those events.
13. Christian terminology used in Acts reflects an earlier period. Harnack points to use of Iusous and Ho Kurios, while Ho Christos always designates 'the Messiah', and is not a proper name for Jesus.
14. The confident tone of Acts seems unlikely during the Neronian persecutions of Christians and the Jewish War with the Rome during the late 60s.
15. The action ends very early in the 60s, yet the description in Acts 27 and 28 is written with a vivid immediacy. It is also an odd place to end the book if years have passed since the pre-62 events transpired.

If Acts was written in 62 or before, and Luke was written before Acts (say 60), then Luke was written less than thirty years of the death of Jesus. This is contemporary to the generation who witnessed the events of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection. This is precisely what Luke claims in the prologue to his Gospel.

Luke presents the same information about who Jesus is, what he taught, and his death and resurrection as do the other Gospels. Thus, there is not a reason to reject their historical accuracy either.

"Of the four Gospels alone there are 19,368 citations by the church fathers from the late first century on. This includes 268 by Justin Martyr (100-165), 1038 by Irenaeus (active in the late 2nd century), 1017 by Clement of Alexandria (ca. 155-ca. 220), 9231 by Origen (ca. 185-ca. 254), 3822 by Tertullian (ca. 160s-ca. 220), (ca. 160s-ca. 220), 734 by Hippolytus (d. ca. 236), and 3258 by Eusebius (ca. 265-ca.339; Geisler, 431).

Earlier, Clement of Rome cited Matthew, John & 1 Corinthians, in 95 to 97. Ignatius referred to six Pauline epistles in about 110AD & between 110 & 150 Polycarp quotes or alludes to all 27 books of the NT in his 'Letter to the Philipians. (See: Polycarp's Letter to the Philippians )

"But Polycarp also was not only instructed by apostles & conversed with many who had seen Christ, but was also, by apostles in Asia, appointed bishop of the Church in Smyrna…ALWAYS TAUGHT THE THINGS WHICH HE HAD LEARNED FROM THE APOSTLES--AND WHICH THE CHURCH HAS HANDED DOWN & WHICH ALONE ARE TRUE. To these things all the Asiatic Churches TESTIFY, as do also those men who have succeeded Polycarp down to the present time." (Irenaeus. Adversus Haeres. Book III, Ch. 4, Verse 3 & Ch. 3, Verse 4).

Shepherd of Hermas (115-140) cited Matthew, Mark, Acts, 1 Corinthians & other books. Didache (120-150) referred to Matthew, Luke, 1 Corinthians & other books. Papias, companion of Polycarp, who was a disciple of the apostle John, quoted John. This argues powerfully that the 27 books of the NT were in existence & recognized shortly after the end of the first century, while some eyewitnesses (including John) were still alive near the end of the 1st century.
 
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Rome was the ruling power in the Mediterranean world at the time of Christ. The Romans were the conquerors and tormentors of Christians until the reign of Constantine, who subsumed the church into the Holy Roman Empire. The original churches had no affiliation with their Roman conquerors -- ever.
 
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