The First Resurrection

[ViaCrucis]

Celestial bodies are not flesh, though.
...
Celestial bodies are spirit. God is a spirit. John 4:24. Angels are spirit. Hebrews 1:7

Angels don't have bodies at all. Because they are bodiless spirits, as you note in Hebrews 1:7.

The term "celestial bodies" is not referring to anything spiritual. Celestial bodies refers to physical things in the heavens as opposed to terrestrial things down here on earth. I.e. it's talking about the sun, moon, and stars. That's why 1 Corinthians 15:41 exists. Earthly bodies refers to stuff down here, animals, plants, etc; heavenly bodies refers to the stuff up there, the sun, moon, stars, etc.

It's all physical.

Paul's point is that even what we ourselves observe, either down here on earth or up in the sky above, has degrees of "glory". The glory of the sun is different than the glory of the moon, it's much greater (it literally shines brighter). There is a clear difference between the bodies of beasts, fish, birds, and human beings, etc.

So when talking about the contrast between the present mortal body, and the future immortal body of the resurrection, Paul is using our own observed reality to help establish analogies. The kind of flesh I have now is not exactly the same as I'll have in the resurrection. It's still flesh, it's solid. It's real solid bodily matter; but it is far more glorious than what I have now. My present body grows old, gets sick, dies, and rots in the ground; but in the resurrection my body lasts for ever, it is incorruptible and immortal.

We shall bear the same flesh that Christ has now. Remember He said, "Feel Me, see, a spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see I have". Jesus isn't a specter, He's a flesh and blood human being--glorified and risen--seated at the right hand of the Father in glory. He is the God-Man.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[CoreyD]

Angels don't have bodies at all. Because they are bodiless spirits, as you note in Hebrews 1:7.

The term "celestial bodies" is not referring to anything spiritual. Celestial bodies refers to physical things in the heavens as opposed to terrestrial things down here on earth. I.e. it's talking about the sun, moon, and stars. That's why 1 Corinthians 15:41 exists. Earthly bodies refers to stuff down here, animals, plants, etc; heavenly bodies refers to the stuff up there, the sun, moon, stars, etc.

It's all physical.

Paul's point is that even what we ourselves observe, either down here on earth or up in the sky above, has degrees of "glory". The glory of the sun is different than the glory of the moon, it's much greater (it literally shines brighter). There is a clear difference between the bodies of beasts, fish, birds, and human beings, etc.

So when talking about the contrast between the present mortal body, and the future immortal body of the resurrection, Paul is using our own observed reality to help establish analogies. The kind of flesh I have now is not exactly the same as I'll have in the resurrection. It's still flesh, it's solid. It's real solid bodily matter; but it is far more glorious than what I have now. My present body grows old, gets sick, dies, and rots in the ground; but in the resurrection my body lasts for ever, it is incorruptible and immortal.

We shall bear the same flesh that Christ has now. Remember He said, "Feel Me, see, a spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see I have". Jesus isn't a specter, He's a flesh and blood human being--glorified and risen--seated at the right hand of the Father in glory. He is the God-Man.

-CryptoLutheran

I believe 1 Corinthians 15:38, which says, But God gives it a body even as it pleased him, and to each seed a body of its own.
What about you... Do you believe what that scripture says?

 

[ViaCrucis]

I believe 1 Corinthians 15:38, which says, But God gives it a body even as it pleased him, and to each seed a body of its own.
What about you... Do you believe what that scripture says?

I do. Which is why I believe that if you plant an acorn you get an oak tree, not an orangutan. When this present mortal body dies, it is sown; and it is raised up to something glorious.

Do you believe that Jesus rose bodily from the grave?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[CoreyD]

I do. Which is why I believe that if you plant an acorn you get an oak tree, not an orangutan. When this present mortal body dies, it is sown; and it is raised up to something glorious.

The body is raised up, or the dead person?
1 Corinthians 15:12-18, 20, 29, 32, 35, 42, 45 says it is the dead person that is raised up, and given an immortal body. 1 Corinthians 15:53-55

Do you believe that Jesus rose bodily from the grave?

-CryptoLutheran

I believe 1 Peter 3:18
Jesus was raise a spirit. A spirit body.
Jesus, the person, was put to death in the flesh, and he was raised up - made alive, in the spirit.
That's scripture. Do you believe this?

Do you believe the angels have spirit bodies?
In Acts 12:7-11, the angel that touched Peter, had a body. That angel wore garments. That angel disappeared.
Did the angel have a body? Yes - a glorious body. 1 Corinthians 15:49
Do you agree with this?

 

[ViaCrucis]

The body is raised up, or the dead person?
1 Corinthians 15:12-18, 20, 29, 32, 35, 42, 45 says it is the dead person that is raised up, and given an immortal body. 1 Corinthians 15:53-55


I believe 1 Peter 3:18
Jesus was raise a spirit. A spirit body.
Jesus, the person, was put to death in the flesh, and he was raised up - made alive, in the spirit.
That's scripture. Do you believe this?

Do you believe the angels have spirit bodies?
In Acts 12:7-11, the angel that touched Peter, had a body. That angel wore garments. That angel disappeared.
Did the angel have a body? Yes - a glorious body. 1 Corinthians 15:49
Do you agree with this?

So Jesus' physical body stayed in the grave and rotted away?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[CoreyD]

So Jesus' physical body stayed in the grave and rotted away?

-CryptoLutheran

The Bible does not say what happened to the fleshly body of Jesus.
Satan would probably like to know. Perhaps you would too, but that knowledge belongs to God.

Jude 1:9
But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”​

What we do know, is, the Bible does say what happened to Jesus. It says, he was "put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit". 1 Peter 3:18
The apostle Paul says the same is true of all those who will be raised in the likeness of Jesus. 1 Corinthians 15:42, 48, 49; 2 Corinthians 5:1-5

What God did with Jesus' body, does not affect the knowledge we have that the dead who are raised as firstfruits are given an immortal spirit body, in order to live in heaven.

You didn't answer my questions though. Is there a reason you didn't?

 

[ViaCrucis]

The Bible does not say what happened to the fleshly body of Jesus.

It absolutely does say what happened to it.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[CoreyD]

It absolutely does say what happened to it.

-CryptoLutheran

You did not provide a scripture, so I take it you are stating an opinion.
Or can you provide a scripture in the Bible that says what happened to Jesus' fleshly body?

 

[Grip Docility]

You did not provide a scripture, so I take it you are stating an opinion.
Or can you provide a scripture in the Bible that says what happened to Jesus' fleshly body?

Psalm 16:10 For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol, nor will You let Your Holy One see decay.

Acts 13:35,36,37,38 Therefore he says also in another psalm, “‘You will not let your Holy One see corruption.’ For David, after he had served the purpose of God in his own generation, fell asleep and was laid with his fathers and saw corruption, but he whom God raised up did not see corruption. Let it be known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

 

[CoreyD]

Psalm 16:10 For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol, nor will You let Your Holy One see decay.

Acts 13:35,36,37,38 Therefore he says also in another psalm, “‘You will not let your Holy One see corruption.’ For David, after he had served the purpose of God in his own generation, fell asleep and was laid with his fathers and saw corruption, but he whom God raised up did not see corruption. Let it be known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you,

Where in those scriptures do you read what happened to Jesus fleshly body?
They say what did not happen to God's loyal one.
He - Jesus - was not left in Sheol/Hades.

What is the soul?

Strong's Hebrew: 5315. נָ֫פֶשׁ (nephesh) -- Soul, life, self, person, heart, creature, mind, living being

What fell asleep? The person, or the body?
What is sleeping is the person - the soul. Is that not so?

As the scriptures show, what is raised up is the person. Not the body.
Do you agree with those scriptures?

 

[Grip Docility]

Where in those scriptures do you read what happened to Jesus fleshly body?
They say what did not happen to God's loyal one.
He - Jesus - was not left in Sheol/Hades.

What is the soul?

Strong's Hebrew: 5315. נָ֫פֶשׁ (nephesh) -- Soul, life, self, person, heart, creature, mind, living being

What fell asleep? The person, or the body?
What is sleeping is the person - the soul. Is that not so?

As the scriptures show, what is raised up is the person. Not the body.
Do you agree with those scriptures?

Scripture was given.

Discussion over theological perspectives and definitions extracted by doctrines of men was not what was asked for.

Jesus is the Holy One in Psalm 16:10

I was providing scripture that you asked @ViaCrucis for, which reaffirmed his statement about Jesus.

You stated the following;

You did not provide a scripture, so I take it you are stating an opinion.
Or can you provide a scripture in the Bible that says what happened to Jesus' fleshly body?

We have further evidence about Psalm 16:10 in the words of the Apostle exegeting it for us in a manner that affirms ViaCrucis’s stance.

Acts 13:37 But God raised Jesus from death, and his body did not decay.

The question asked by yourself in exact fashion is answered by the scripture as if directly answering your question. It is not only direct scripture, but it is exegesis performed by the Apostle.

In my opinion, no following questions on that specific matter should be necessary.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you, Sibling in Him

 

[CoreyD]

Scripture was given.

Discussion over theological perspectives and definitions extracted by doctrines of men was not was asked for.

Jesus is the Holy One in Psalm 16:10

I was providing scripture that you asked @ViaCrucis for, which reaffirmed his statement about Jesus.

You stated the following;


We have further evidence about Psalm 16:10 in the words of the Apostle exegeting it’s for us in a manner that affirms ViaCrucis’s stance.

Acts 13:37 But God raised Jesus from death, and his body did not decay.

The question asked by yourself in exact fashion is answered by the scripture as if directly answering your question. It is not only direct scripture, but it is exegesis performed by the Apostle.

In my opinion, no following questions on that specific matter should be necessary.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you, Sibling in Him

Thanks, but the scriptures you provided did not say what happened to Jesus' fleshly body.
"The body did not decay, therefore..." is to add theological arguments, such as "it was raised up... it was discarded of by God...."
Since theological arguments are unacceptable, you did not answer the question. Thank you.

 

[Grip Docility]

Thanks, but the scriptures you provided did not say what happened to Jesus' fleshly body.
"The body did not decay, therefore..." is to add theological arguments, such as "it was raised up... it was discarded of by God...."
Since theological arguments are unacceptable, you did not answer the question. Thank you.

You asked for scripture proving that Jesus’ flesh did not decay. It was provided and exegeted by the Apostle in scripture.

To insinuate that the scripture provided is anything other than what the Apostle said is between the Apostle and you, in my opinion.

He, the Apostle, is alive with Jesus in Heaven per Hebrews 11.

This is my opinion, respectfully.

 

[CoreyD]

You asked for scripture proving that Jesus’ flesh did not decay.

No I did not.
Please speak the truth.
My question was, and is ...can you provide a scripture in the Bible that says what happened to Jesus' fleshly body?

It was provided and exegeted by the Apostle in scripture.

To insinuate that the scripture provided is anything other than what the Apostle said is between the Apostle and you, in my opinion.

He, the Apostle, is alive with Jesus in Heaven per Hebrews 11.

This is my opinion, respectfully.

Thank you for your opinion.
I take the scriptures to be in harmony.
Your opinion does not harmonize the scriptures.
Thank you.

 

[Grip Docility]

No I did not.
Please speak the truth.
My question was, and is ...can you provide a scripture in the Bible that says what happened to Jesus' fleshly body?


Thank you for your opinion.
I take the scriptures to be in harmony.
Your opinion does not harmonize the scriptures.
Thank you.

Jesus’ Body was placed in the Tomb. Per the Apostle it did not decay. Jesus rose on the 3rd day. The Tomb was empty.

I’m not understanding the difficulty of this.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you, Brother in Him

 

[CoreyD]

Jesus’ Body was placed in the Tomb. Per the Apostle it did not decay. Jesus rose on the 3rd day. The Tomb was empty.

I’m not understanding the difficulty of this.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you, Brother in Him

Thank you. I have no problem with that. It's the theology of it.
However, you aren't getting into the theology, right. So that's cool.

 

[ViaCrucis]

You did not provide a scripture, so I take it you are stating an opinion.
Or can you provide a scripture in the Bible that says what happened to Jesus' fleshly body?

"But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they went to the tomb, taking the spices they had prepared. And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they went in they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. While they were perplexed about this, behold, two men stood by them in dazzling apparel. And as they were frightened and bowed their faces to the ground, then men said to them, 'Why do you seek the living among the dead? He is not here, but has risen! Remember how He told you, while He was still in Galilee, that the Son of Man must be delivered in the hands of sinful men and be crucified and on the third day rise.'" - Luke 24:1-7

"See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." - Luke 24:39

Is this enough or would you prefer more biblical testimony?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

What we do know, is, the Bible does say what happened to Jesus. It says, he was "put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit". 1 Peter 3:18

What do you think that means?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

scripture in the Bible that says what happened to Jesus' fleshly body?

Resurrection. How many passages of Scripture do you need that says Jesus was resurrected?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[CoreyD]

"But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they went to the tomb, taking the spices they had prepared. And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they went in they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus. While they were perplexed about this, behold, two men stood by them in dazzling apparel. And as they were frightened and bowed their faces to the ground, then men said to them, 'Why do you seek the living among the dead? He is not here, but has risen! Remember how He told you, while He was still in Galilee, that the Son of Man must be delivered in the hands of sinful men and be crucified and on the third day rise.'" - Luke 24:1-7

"See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have." - Luke 24:39

Is this enough or would you prefer more biblical testimony?

-CryptoLutheran

So you believe Jesus is not spirit?
Okay. That would explain why you did not answer the question on 1 Peter 3:18
If one does not understand the sayings of spirit, which Jesus spoke, they might believe that Jesus was flesh.
Similarly, when Jesus said the young girl did not die, but is sleeping, they might think people do not die.
Jesus did not contradict Peter. Jesus was raised spirit.

I would ask myself this question, if I were you. How did Jesus face and body look after the beating he got? Why then did no one recognize him? Was he wearing a mask, or did he put on makeup?
I'd be really interested in how People answer that, who think Jesus was raised with the body he was put to death with.
I'd also like to hear how they view Peter's words... if they are willing to answer.

What do you think that means?

-CryptoLutheran

What it means?
You think it has a meaning, and it's not an explanation?
I'd be interested in hearing what scripture explains that meaning, rather than what meaning you give it.
Please quote the scripture that gives the meaning.

In Post #46, I said this.
What we do know, is, the Bible does say what happened to Jesus. It says, he was "put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit". 1 Peter 3:18
The apostle Paul says the same is true of all those who will be raised in the likeness of Jesus. 1 Corinthians 15:42, 48, 49; 2 Corinthians 5:1-5

The Bible states a fact about Jesus' death and resurrection.
I do not adopt the idea that every scripture in the Bible has a meaning that people can give it... and whatever meaning is given, that's what it is.
To me, that renders every scripture in the Bible subject to multiple interpretations, all equally valid, and thus suggests the Bible is useless - not as defined at 2 Timothy 3:16, 17

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

The Bible explains itself, and gives the correct understanding.
I accept that understanding.

Resurrection. How many passages of Scripture do you need that says Jesus was resurrected?

-CryptoLutheran