The First Commandment

[Lulav]

Most people that come to MJ do so because they don't agree with following everything the church teaches, so you can't hardly expect them to believe in a like manner. These same people believe that G-d comes first and that they should obey G-d over man, every time.

 

[ContraMundum]

Most people that come to MJ do so because they don't agree with following everything the church teaches, so you can't hardly expect them to believe in a like manner. These same people believe that G-d comes first and that they should obey G-d over man, every time.

That's almost a non sequitur. I think you'll find that almost everyone on every sub-forum on CF believes God comes first and that they should obey God over men, "every time". I think it is an exercise in prejudice and stereotype to think that people in the "church" are too stupid to think for themselves. They translated your Bibles, wrote your lexicons, concordances and preserved the teaching of two dead languages for you. I'm shocked that after all these years you still posit the point that people in the "church" are basically half-wits without a clue about the world or God almost every week.

While you may consider this "finger pointing" I have to tell you that I think it's high time someone spoke out against the prejudice and sniping on the forum's host faith (Christianity) that goes on here. How about just pulling back from the old "the church is full of morons" line and just show a bit of gratitude for the Bible it gave you and the poor it feeds every moment of every day.

 

[ContraMundum]

Thank you Contra. This is wisdom from on High!

Thanks ani. And I agree, and as such thank God for His wisdom gracefully shared with us. It's good to see someone actually paying attention.

 

[ContraMundum]

Contra,

I am not looking for a fight or an argument. I was just sharing my thought. However I appreciate your thought.

It is interesting though that with just one thought how many people can go off on a tangent that had nothing to do with the thought that was shared. And so easy for others to point the finger at others. I will not be a part of this.

MR777, nor am I. I gave you the orthodox answer. I don't think the other answers got there. I made it a task to point that out. It was not directed at you.

 

[Lulav]

That's almost a non sequitur. I think you'll find that almost everyone on every sub-forum on CF believes God comes first and that they should obey God over men, "every time". I think it is an exercise in prejudice and stereotype to think that people in the "church" are too stupid to think for themselves. They translated your Bibles, wrote your lexicons, concordances and preserved the teaching of two dead languages for you. I'm shocked that after all these years you still posit the point that people in the "church" are basically half-wits without a clue about the world or God almost every week.

While you may consider this "finger pointing" I have to tell you that I think it's high time someone spoke out against the prejudice and sniping on the forum's host faith (Christianity) that goes on here. How about just pulling back from the old "the church is full of morons" line and just show a bit of gratitude for the Bible it gave you and the poor it feeds every moment of every day.

Excuse me? Please show me where I've ever said that, you are making unfounded accusations.

 

[Lulav]

MR777, nor am I. I gave you the orthodox answer. I don't think the other answers got there. I made it a task to point that out. It was not directed at you.

No, but it is apparent that you are directing it at me and that is called slander my friend.

 

[ContraMundum]

Excuse me? Please show me where I've ever said that, you are making unfounded accusations.

Speaketh the Lulav: "Most people that come to MJ do so because they don't agree with following everything the church teaches, so you can't hardly expect them to believe in a like manner. These same people believe that G-d comes first and that they should obey G-d over man, every time."

Is this not saying that the Church is filled with people who are blind followers of man's word- or not? Looks like it to me.

You have always been anti-church. If I had the time and the skills I could probably compile a long, long list of quotes to prove it- but why on earth are you denying it? I thought you were bold about it and proud? Why get coy about it now?

 

[ContraMundum]

No, but it is apparent that you are directing it at me and that is called slander my friend.

It's not all about you, Lulav. Yes, you do not believe in the whole NT. You and at least two others. How is pointing that out slanderous? You should be proud of and open about your beliefs.

 

[anisavta]

That's almost a non sequitur. I think you'll find that almost everyone on every sub-forum on CF believes God comes first and that they should obey God over men, "every time". I think it is an exercise in prejudice and stereotype to think that people in the "church" are too stupid to think for themselves. They translated your Bibles, wrote your lexicons, concordances and preserved the teaching of two dead languages for you. I'm shocked that after all these years you still posit the point that people in the "church" are basically half-wits without a clue about the world or God almost every week.

While you may consider this "finger pointing" I have to tell you that I think it's high time someone spoke out against the prejudice and sniping on the forum's host faith (Christianity) that goes on here. How about just pulling back from the old "the church is full of morons" line and just show a bit of gratitude for the Bible it gave you and the poor it feeds every moment of every day.

My husband and I left the church around 6 years ago to connect with Messianic Judaism. We shook the dust off our feet and said we'd never return to a church again nor it's doctrinal errors. And we knew we were home. Finally we were hearing the truth...until the rabbi passed and a young immature idealistic man took his place. Doctrinal errors flew once again and we felt we were back at church. Fast forward a few years - we were kicked out of the congregation because we "challenged" his authority by disagreeing with him on several areas.
And now we find ourselves in exile. No other MJ congregations for miles around. So what does the L~rd do? Seems to be sending us to a Christian small group lead by our son-in-love.
My heart breaks when I hear Christianese again and I have to resist the urge to run, or worse, point out all the errors and faulty statements. But then again, if people would have done that to us when we were being drawn to MJ, how would we have dealt with it. No one wants to hear that they are stupid, dull of spirit, following false doctrine.
As much as Hubster and I hate having to go back into the Christian world, maybe...just maybe we were pulled out of our comfy womb to love Christians and show them the joys of Torah obedience. Yes, Hubster and I are the token Jews, but they are like sponges. Its like they want to grab hold of our tzitzit as we lead them to the House of the L~rd.
And BTW, some of the things they say, are wisdom and truth and far superior to some of the stuff we heard in MJ. G~d is no respecter of persons or religions when it comes to speaking to His creation. He gets His Word out, and changes lives in spite of us and our two cents on the matter.
Slight aside... a dear friend of mine is Mormon, but I KNOW (yes that was a raised voice) she knows Messiah and He knows her.

 

[HannibalFlavius]

..

 

[HannibalFlavius]

..

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

If You Want To Argue Who Is Right Or Wrong Please Do It In Pm Not On My Thread. Thank You.

 

[Moriah Ruth 777]

This is for everyone.

 

[ContraMundum]

My husband and I left the church around 6 years ago to connect with Messianic Judaism. We shook the dust off our feet and said we'd never return to a church again nor it's doctrinal errors. And we knew we were home. Finally we were hearing the truth...until the rabbi passed and a young immature idealistic man took his place. Doctrinal errors flew once again and we felt we were back at church. Fast forward a few years - we were kicked out of the congregation because we "challenged" his authority by disagreeing with him on several areas.
And now we find ourselves in exile. No other MJ congregations for miles around. So what does the L~rd do? Seems to be sending us to a Christian small group lead by our son-in-love.
My heart breaks when I hear Christianese again and I have to resist the urge to run, or worse, point out all the errors and faulty statements. But then again, if people would have done that to us when we were being drawn to MJ, how would we have dealt with it. No one wants to hear that they are stupid, dull of spirit, following false doctrine.
As much as Hubster and I hate having to go back into the Christian world, maybe...just maybe we were pulled out of our comfy womb to love Christians and show them the joys of Torah obedience. Yes, Hubster and I are the token Jews, but they are like sponges. Its like they want to grab hold of our tzitzit as we lead them to the House of the L~rd.
And BTW, some of the things they say, are wisdom and truth and far superior to some of the stuff we heard in MJ. G~d is no respecter of persons or religions when it comes to speaking to His creation. He gets His Word out, and changes lives in spite of us and our two cents on the matter.
Slight aside... a dear friend of mine is Mormon, but I KNOW (yes that was a raised voice) she knows Messiah and He knows her.

Good word to share, and very interesting. It seems that the journey is never as straight-forward as we would like it or imagine it to be. The highlighted bit is pure gold, and I couldn't agree more.

I find many things both in MJ and in the churches that annoy me, but I stopped letting it get to me ages ago. I realize that the walk in Messiah is just not that complicated- you do what you can, pray, repent, love and serve your neighbour more and more and stand by your convictions. I stay in the service of where I am called because it is that place that frees me to follow. Nothing more, nothing less. If God called me out to a new service (as He has done a few years ago) then I go. I think it's pretty simple.

 

[ContraMundum]

If You Want To Argue Who Is Right Or Wrong Please Do It In Pm Not On My Thread. Thank You.

MR777, has tour question been answered yet? Are you satisfied with the answers? That's all that matters from my perspective.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Simply put, in Judaism, there is a teaching that the Torah was before creation. Note that this is nowhere explicit in scripture, but comes by way of interpretation. Some Jewish teachers even say that this is eisegetical. Some say it is a good way of explaning certain mysteries. I don't take a position either way.

The real problem and the insufficiency of the previous answers to your post is that there is a presumption that all the laws are the same and that all apply to all at all times. This is simply not Jewish. The Law has an eternal nature, but its application is bound in time, place and person.

Sin came into the world because of one man breaking one law, then laws increased as a result of sin. This is the most simple chronology that even a three year old can understand. Where people get confused is when Paul writes in Rom. 5 that sin was in the world before the law was given. But the context makes it clear that Paul is referring to the written and codified (completed) law given through Moses.

Good points....

 

[David Ben Yosef]

Simply put, in Judaism, there is a teaching that the Torah was before creation. Note that this is nowhere explicit in scripture, but comes by way of interpretation.

That depends on what one considers to be scripture.