the fig tree.. explanation please.

[Catherineanne]

I know that the fig tree is thought by most to be a symbol of latter-day Israel, but why? The olive tree is the usual symbol for historic Israel. So why do most think the fig tree is such? I wonder because of when Jesus talked about the fig tree putting forth leaves, and knowing that as a sign for the coming of the kingdom.
I tend to think also that the fig tree is modern Israel, but I'd like to get some more opinions on the matter.

In my view the Lord never has just one meaning to what he says; it is multi-layered. But the first layer is always the most intimate; the most personal. Our God is a personal God.

Therefore, the fig tree is each one of us; the Lord comes to us, and seeks the fruit of the Spirit. We may think it is the wrong time, or the wrong situation or that we cannot be expected to be joyful or loving in our own particular circumstances. We give all kinds of excuses for not being what we ought to be. He seeks fruit, whether we think it is the right time or not.

This level of meaning is sufficient, imo. Whether the parable can apply on a larger scale is not really all that relevant. It applies to me, here and now, as a follower of the Lord. If the Lord came to me, hungry for the fruit of the Spirit, would he find only leaves; only promises, or would he find actual fruit?

Is the fig tree modern Israel? No. I don't think it is. The message of the Christian Bible is to believers; to Christians. God addresses Israel and the Jewish people through their own Scriptures, and through their own Rabbis' interpretation of those Scriptures. He does not address Israel through the New Testament. The Bible is addressed to Christians; not Jews, not Buddhists, not Moslems, not atheists; Christians.

The fig tree is us as individuals, our churches, and the whole Church collectively; the message is simple enough; where is the fruit?

 

[Interplanner]

Cath,
most of the appeal of the NT is to Israel to be what Christ said the OT prophecy means for it to be: a light to the nations by declaring the Gospel, Acts 13:47

 

[bibletruth469]

The fig tree is associated with Israel in scripture . A few passages to look at are listed: Jer 8:13, Jer 29:17, Hosea 9:10,16, Joel 1:7, Naham 3:12. One should look at these verses and passages in detail to see how they are all related to Israel.

Also look at Matthew 21:18-22, vs 19 reads" And when he saw a fig tree in the way , he came to it , and found nothing therein , but leaves only, and said unto it , Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever.And presently the fig tree withered away". The barren tree represents Israel's spiritual condition of unbelief . Also look at Matthew 3:10"And now also the axe is laid unto the root if the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire".

A characteristic of a fig tree is fruitfulness . It can bear fruit all seasons. The cursed tree was supposed to bear fruit, but it did not. However , God can restore Israel again by performing a miracle . In the gospel of Luke 3:9 , speaks about the same thing as proclaimed by John the Baptist . Also look at Luke 13:6-10 . God will restore israel again.

The main fig tree verse that everyone mentions is the parable Matthew 24:32. This also speaks prophecy concerning the nation of Israel .

Look also at Hosea 2:9-12. And Hab 3:17"Although the fig tree shall not blossom , neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labor of the olive tree shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; and the flock shall be cut from the fold , and there shall be no head in the stalls: vs18" Yet I will rejoice in The Lord , I will joy in the God of my salvation ".

One can tie all these scripture verses together among many others ; they prove that the fig tree represents Israel .

 

[Catherineanne]

Cath,
most of the appeal of the NT is to Israel to be what Christ said the OT prophecy means for it to be: a light to the nations by declaring the Gospel, Acts 13:47

That is Christianity, not Judaism.

Jews are addressed through the Torah, not the New Testament. The New Testament is addressed to those who believe in Christ, and follow him; we are called Israel in the New Testament, but this is Christianity.

 

[Catherineanne]

One can tie all these scripture verses together among many others ; they prove that the fig tree represents Israel.

Once again, that is Israel denoting Christianity.

The New Testament is written to believers in Christ, not to unbelievers.

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

The fig tree is associated with Israel in scripture . A few passages to look at are listed: Jer 8:13, Jer 29:17, Hosea 9:10,16, Joel 1:7, Naham 3:12. One should look at these verses and passages in detail to see how they are all related to Israel.

Also look at Matthew 21:18-22, vs 19 reads" And when he saw a fig tree in the way , he came to it , and found nothing therein , but leaves only, and said unto it , Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever.And presently the fig tree withered away". The barren tree represents Israel's spiritual condition of unbelief . Also look at Matthew 3:10"And now also the axe is laid unto the root if the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire".

A characteristic of a fig tree is fruitfulness . It can bear fruit all seasons. The cursed tree was supposed to bear fruit, but it did not. However , God can restore Israel again by performing a miracle . In the gospel of Luke 3:9 , speaks about the same thing as proclaimed by John the Baptist . Also look at Luke 13:6-10 . God will restore israel again.

The main fig tree verse that everyone mentions is the parable Matthew 24:32. This also speaks prophecy concerning the nation of Israel .

Look also at Hosea 2:9-12. And Hab 3:17"Although the fig tree shall not blossom , neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labor of the olive tree shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; and the flock shall be cut from the fold , and there shall be no head in the stalls: vs18" Yet I will rejoice in The Lord , I will joy in the God of my salvation ".

One can tie all these scripture verses together among many others ; they prove that the fig tree represents Israel .

I agree with that.

 

[bibletruth469]

Once again, that is Israel denoting Christianity.

The New Testament is written to believers in Christ, not to unbelievers.

You are replacing Israel with the church. You are using replacement theology. It simply is not true. Israel and the church are two separate identities and always will be.

 

[ebedmelech]

The fig tree is associated with Israel in scripture . A few passages to look at are listed: Jer 8:13, Jer 29:17, Hosea 9:10,16, Joel 1:7, Naham 3:12. One should look at these verses and passages in detail to see how they are all related to Israel.

Also look at Matthew 21:18-22, vs 19 reads" And when he saw a fig tree in the way , he came to it , and found nothing therein , but leaves only, and said unto it , Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever.And presently the fig tree withered away". The barren tree represents Israel's spiritual condition of unbelief . Also look at Matthew 3:10"And now also the axe is laid unto the root if the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire".

A characteristic of a fig tree is fruitfulness . It can bear fruit all seasons. The cursed tree was supposed to bear fruit, but it did not. However , God can restore Israel again by performing a miracle . In the gospel of Luke 3:9 , speaks about the same thing as proclaimed by John the Baptist . Also look at Luke 13:6-10 . God will restore israel again.

The main fig tree verse that everyone mentions is the parable Matthew 24:32. This also speaks prophecy concerning the nation of Israel .

Look also at Hosea 2:9-12. And Hab 3:17"Although the fig tree shall not blossom , neither shall fruit be in the vines; the labor of the olive tree shall fail, and the fields shall yield no meat; and the flock shall be cut from the fold , and there shall be no head in the stalls: vs18" Yet I will rejoice in The Lord , I will joy in the God of my salvation ".

One can tie all these scripture verses together among many others ; they prove that the fig tree represents Israel .

There's a huge difference in these prophecies where it's obvious that Israel is the fig tree and what Jesus is doing in Matthew 24:32-35.

All one has to do is read them and compare them within their context...and in the parable of the fig tree Jesus is not prophesying about Israel...He has told the disciples that Jerusalem and the temple are going to be destroyed...so He doesn't need to typify Israel as the fig tree because He has clearly told the disciples this is Jerusalem's destruction.

Jesus is summing up to the disciples that all that He has told them of this event (Matthew 24), can be realized by paying attention to all the things He has told them. He said "you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door.".

Read the prophecies bibletruth469 have cited...then read "the parable of the fig tree".

It's not about Israel...it was about paying attention to the signs He gave them. So when you read them you have hold them in context or you go astray from what's really going on.

 

[mog144]

I know that the fig tree is thought by most to be a symbol of latter-day Israel, but why? The olive tree is the usual symbol for historic Israel. So why do most think the fig tree is such? I wonder because of when Jesus talked about the fig tree putting forth leaves, and knowing that as a sign for the coming of the kingdom.
I tend to think also that the fig tree is modern Israel, but I'd like to get some more opinions on the matter.

Hello, If I may offer a few coins, the Fig is the main object in this Imagery and of course the source from where it comes. We also know that there are good fruits and bad fruits. All trees in scripture usually have dual applications and I've noticed that around 240 references are symbolic.

The Fig tree has always stood for Israel whether it point to the literal earth or a spiritual, and these references always have a spiritual interpretation behind the plain text, such as reading into a metaphoric phrase. An example is the word 'Touch', and we address this word in Genesis when Eve spoke to the serpent. It's a long stretch to give all of the links to make this a better connection between the First Seed and the Last, so to make this as simple as possible... just look at the beginning to find what the ending will be.

At this present moment, the geographical Israel is playing out her natural role in this battle because she gave away her spiritual inheritance. The spiritual role is played out by the Gentile nation, us, the USA. Now, this also has a broader application role, and it covers the entire world, because all Jews in every sense have been scattered and God first uses a HIGH-powered magnet to drag through the sands to attract the larger Metallic (elect/sword blades) particles, and He throws back the unwanted residue, like wiping the metallic dust from a magnet.

This is where they get the story of Excalibur from because it pulls the Sword out of the stone; this occurs in the mind of every Knight who comes forth to serve the Lord, and He will be Crowned, and receive the armor and shall have Great Valor in the coming battle of the demons, dragons, sorcerers and witches. The stone is your mind and He, the Excalibur Knight pulls the Sword out of your mind that once had your mind in spiritual death. Then he raises you up to be one like himself. These are the 144,000 elect, they have the authentic Two Witnesses, it's on either side of their Sword's.

Then we have another parallel to the Jim Bowie Knife blade. Study the story of how he came about this knife and note that he first meets an old friend with poor vision and the old man forges the Knife for Jim. The same parallel is the Zorro theme story where he is trained by a Master swordsman. The blade had to be of a certain grade steel, a certain temperance and the blade had a back rib that was smaller and designed for specific usages. All of the features signify the same things in my Two Witnesses thread. The parallels are in everything around us and in the Cross, emphatically.

This also involves the Two Genders of the Seed where the First Two Witnesses Originated and continue on throughout the entire Universe throughout every dimension and parallel in natural and supernatural realms. There must be and be maintained a proper balance between the male and female gender just like the two blades on the Jim Bowie Knife blade was designed. Jim Bowie is a brainwash among everything you touch, see, hear, smell, feel, experience, etc. It's incredible to say it least.

We see this in a parallel where the fishermen pull up large baskets but they pick only a few the large fish and throw back the rest into the sea. This is played out in our mental realm in the last-day as well as in the natural.

Where ever there is a war in high places there is war on earth, and visa verse, and there are wars in both right now. They don't match up and make any sense because of the Time-shift between the Prophetic and Natural timelines. This is how God allowed the sealing and unsealing of Prophecy, it's spiritual and mental and natural.

It's a matter of God shaking the tree to cause all of the ripe fruits to fall to the ground, and this has great significance in that it shows the elect falling to the lowest level of their faith as if they were slain, and then they are resurrected to a new mind of intelligence as they were enlightened by the truth that they were gifted and willingly received without a fuss.

There are Two harvests to consider the least and all of the links of the picture must be considered to see why we can't go home just yet until this split in the vortex of time is repaired in the spiritual dimension.

Only the real man of steel knows how to do this, and what is going on. The end scene is when every flock of every realm in both natural and spiritual sense will return to their original homelands. The natural Jews will return to theirs, but they are those whom God has spared from their entire gathering in the end. Then there is a Gentile nation that God starts with first because that is where He raises up His Apostles for the Last-day fulfillment so that the separations may take place and the world is Judged by the appearance of the tree after it was shaken.

The caring for the tree is done by the elect, and they groom the Tree to where She is producing XLNT Fruits so when the Father comes and tastes a Fig, He will know that His Sons did the good works while He was gone.

The Harvest is then ready, says the Father and the Sons go through in a rush to save the good fruits before they perish on the branches. This must be done to get the fruits to the market place for sale.

That harvest is the multitude. It has a beautiful story if you look at it from perspectives that your mind may relate for our present-day, and this is the present-day truth.

God bless

Edit: I forgot a scene, in the beginning, this one man picks two good figs from the present-day Israel-Fig Tree in the Gentile nation where he starts first because that is where he raises the House of Jacob/Judah as a spark of the remnant, then from these two figs, real men who receive the Two Witnesses which are written in them by education, just the same as Daniel's students, then from the two imaged Figs he prepares the ripe fruits and plants the seeds, which are multiple, into good soils, and he waters them well, and they grow and produce a good measure of the multitude. God needs field workers because the harvest is ready and we must rush before they rot on the branches.




...

 

[Catherineanne]

You are replacing Israel with the church. You are using replacement theology. It simply is not true. Israel and the church are two separate identities and always will be.

Thank you for your opinion, but I am afraid you are mistaken.

Israel in the New Testament is a term used to denote the Way; what we would call Christianity.

Judaism is certainly separate from Christianity, and has its own honourable traditions and Scriptures. When Israel is addressed in the New Testament, it is NOT Judaism that is being addressed. It is the Way.

 

[bibletruth469]

All those verses in my response to the opening question was to prove through the scripture that the fig tree represents Israel. One can look through all the verses for oneself and realize that this is true.

I wasn't going into the detail about Matthew 24 in my opening response. In this fig tree parable, scripture uses the nation of Israel as a 'timer' for signs that will soon take place. Example, Matt 24:33," So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors". It is a very complex parable but in my opinion, what is going on in Israel has a direct impact on bible prophecy on the world scene. In other words, We can look what's going on now in the nation of Israel and use that as a barometer for the times in which we live.

Furthermore, look at Zechariah 12:1-3. It says, I will make Jerusalem a burdensome stone and all the nations of the world will be gathered against it. This is happening today in the headline news! Many nations are against Israel from being a nation or for them even being in existence. However, the scripture makes it very clear that God will protect Israel. Reading on in verse 8" In that day shall the lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem;..." This is bible prophecy happening right before our eyes. So the parable spoken in Matthew 24 is about the signs of the times that uses the nation of Israel as a clock or barometer on the world scene .

 

[Interplanner]

Cath, the sermon in Acts 13, which is a sample of what Paul did everywhere, is an appeal to those in synagogos Judaism to believe the new message. Do you have another explanation for the source of conflict between the two, other than the conclusion of this sermon, which is that the promises to the fathers were actually about the resurrection, which is the proof of justification from our sins for those who believe?

If there were footnotes about that conclusion, by Paul himself, I believe you would find them in Gal 3-4 or Eph 2-3.

My point: for the NT to speak only to its believers would be the clichesque 'preaching to the choir.' Paul worked, and finally was very frustrated by the failure of his work, to see Israel become missionaries like him (Acts 26:29).

 

[bibletruth469]

Cath, the sermon in Acts 13, which is a sample of what Paul did everywhere, is an appeal to those in synagogos Judaism to believe the new message. Do you have another explanation for the source of conflict between the two, other than the conclusion of this sermon, which is that the promises to the fathers were actually about the resurrection, which is the proof of justification from our sins for those who believe?

If there were footnotes about that conclusion, by Paul himself, I believe you would find them in Gal 3-4 or Eph 2-3.

My point: for the NT to speak only to its believers would be the clichesque 'preaching to the choir.' Paul worked, and finally was very frustrated by the failure of his work, to see Israel become missionaries like him (Acts 26:29).

What does this have to do with the subject?

 

[Interplanner]

You would have to read what Catherinemarie is posting.

 

[Interplanner]

BT469,
to make your position more clear, you could narrow down your claim to "Israel when it _____" or "Israel in _____ (a place or year or episode)."

 

[Bible2]

bibletruth469 said in post 27:

Israel and the church are two separate identities and always will be.

Note that that isn't the case, because all genetic Jews in the church remain members of whichever tribe of Israel they were born into (Romans 11:1, Acts 4:36). And all genetic Gentiles in the church have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29), and so have been grafted into its various tribes (cf. Ezekiel 47:21-23). So the entire church is the 12 tribes of Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10). This is necessary, for all those in the church are saved only by the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6, Hebrews 9:15), and the New Covenant is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34, John 4:22b). John 10:16 refers to the "other sheep" of believers who are Gentiles being brought into "this fold" of Israel, which is the same as the "one fold" of the church (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6, Revelation 21:9,12). A genetic Gentile believer can pray and ask which tribe of Israel he has been grafted into, and he will receive an answer from God, if he asks in faith (cf. Matthew 21:22), without any wavering (cf. James 1:6-7).

Also, all those in the church, no matter whether they're genetic Jews (Acts 22:3) or genetic Gentiles (Romans 16:4b), have become spiritually-circumcised Jews if they've undergone the spiritual circumcision of water-immersion (burial) baptism into Jesus (Romans 2:29, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:11-13).

bibletruth469 said in post 27:

You are replacing Israel with the church. You are using replacement theology.

Even though the church is Israel (Revelation 21:9,12; 1 Peter 2:9-10), the church doesn't "replace" Israel, because Gentiles in the church are grafted in to become only parts of an already-existing Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29, John 10:16), which also includes the genetic Jews in the church (Romans 11:1).

*******

bibletruth469 said in post 31:

Furthermore, look at Zechariah 12:1-3. It says, I will make Jerusalem a burdensome stone and all the nations of the world will be gathered against it. This is happening today in the headline news! Many nations are against Israel from being a nation or for them even being in existence. However, the scripture makes it very clear that God will protect Israel. Reading on in verse 8" In that day shall the lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem;..."

Zechariah 12:1-9 will happen at Jesus' 2nd coming (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:11-21), just as Zechariah 12:10-14 will happen at his 2nd coming (Romans 11:26). A few years before the 2nd coming, Israel could be defeated and occupied during the horrible future war of Revelation 6:4-8 and Daniel 11:15-17.

One way this war could happen is that the U.S. could build up the Iraqi Army until it's huge enough and well-equipped enough to serve as a proxy army, for the U.S. and Israel, for an all-out ground invasion of Iran, in order to end Iran's nuclear weapons program and extremist regime. As part of the buildup of the Iraqi Army, the U.S. could reinstall some of the former Baathist military hierarchy to run the Iraqi Army more efficiently and ruthlessly. And if the current Shiite-dominated government of Iraq balks at any invasion of fellow-Shiite Iran, this could lead the CIA, the Mossad, and possibly also (Sunni Arab) Saudi Intelligence, to bring about a Baathist coup d'etat in Iraq. For all three of these intelligence agencies would love for Iraq to attack their common mortal foe Iran, and the Iraqi Baathists could agree to do this, for they see non-Arab Iran as a great enemy of Arab autonomy.

To help get the Iraqi masses and the world behind the idea of an all-out Iraqi invasion of Iran, false-flag operations could be managed by the CIA and the Mossad by which it will be made to seem that (non-Arab, Persian) Iran is attacking the Iraqi Sunni Arabs and their little children terroristically with "dirty bombs" made from Iranian-enriched uranium, so that the Iraqi Arab masses will become enraged and begin to call for all-out retaliation against (what they could call) "the vile Persians". And the world could see an Iraqi invasion of Iran as being completely justified by self-defense.

But then, right when Iraq is all ready to invade Iran, the ultra-Orthodox Jews in Israel (who by that time could be led by a false Messiah) could destroy the Muslim Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque (the 3rd-holiest sites in Islam) on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, to prepare the site for the building of a 3rd Jewish temple (Revelation 11:1-2, Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31,36; 2 Thessalonians 2:4). This could so enrage Muslims worldwide, including the (Muslim) Iraqi Army, that the Iraqi Baathist Generals could see it as a perfect excuse to abandon the plan to invade huge Iran, and instead (pretending that they're doing so in the name of Islam) turn and send their vast army against the little territory of Israel, completely defeating it (Daniel 11:15-17; in verse 17, the original Hebrew word translated as "daughter" is "bath").

But this wouldn't be the ultimate reason for the Baathist attack, which could continue on south to also defeat and occupy Egypt (Daniel 11:15). For even though there has been some ostensible change in Egypt, the U.S.-supported Egyptian Army remains in ultimate control, so that the Baathists could see the Egyptian regime as still being a puppet of the U.S., just as they could see Israel as being a colony of the U.S. Baathism's ultimate aim is to unite all Arab lands from Oman to Morocco into one massive, powerful United Arab States free of all foreign hegemony.

The all-out Iraqi attack on Israel could be joined by the entire (Baathist) Syrian Army (with all of its missiles, many tipped with nerve agents), as well as by all of Iran's long-range missiles and all of Hezbollah's and Hamas' missiles and guerrillas. Israel could find itself suddenly attacked from three directions at the same time, with tens of thousands of missiles raining down on its cities and military bases, and tens of thousands of Iraqi tanks (meant to defeat and occupy huge Iran) pouring across its borders. As Israel starts to see its little sliver of land completely overrun, and sees that its total defeat is imminent and assured, in retaliation it could drop nuclear bombs on Baghdad, Damascus (Isaiah 17:1), Tehran, and other major cities of Iraq, Syria, and Iran.

There could be so many nuclear explosions sending so much radioactive dust and ash so high into the atmosphere that it could be blown eastward and fall on hugely-populated South Asia, ruining so many crop fields and immune systems there with radiation that 1/4 of the world's population could end up dying from the war and its aftermath of famines and epidemics. This could fulfill the horrible war which will begin the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which war will, with its aftermath of famines and epidemics, end up killing 1/4 of the world (Revelation 6:4-8). The "great sword" of this war (Revelation 6:4) could be Israel's nuclear weapons. This war could be blamed not only on the "religious fundamentalism" of Islam and Judaism, but also on religious fundamentalism in general, and so could lead to a worldwide crusade against all forms of religious fundamentalism, including Christian fundamentalism, that is, the (correct) idea that the Bible is wholly true (2 Timothy 3:16, Matthew 4:4) and that all other religions are cursed (Galatians 1:8-9, John 14:6, John 3:36, Acts 4:12).

 

[Interplanner]

Bible2,
the Heb. for daughter is Beth, from numerous examples.

your scenarios have sense but are not prophecy per se. They are known and discussed by the parties involved who are hesitant because of the prospect of melt down.

Christianity is not a fundamentalism. Paul used to be obsessed in Judaism (Acts 22) but did not have that mentality in C'ity, mainly because 'you don't make laws about these things (the fruit of the Spirit).' A fundamentalist tries, but as a misunderstanding. If people go fundamentalist (even about secularism) that is their problem.

none of your scenarios are predetermined. The C'ian answer to all of it is Eph 2-3, which you mentioned but don't seem to grasp as an answer. We are not here watch fireworks happen, but to help these people see that there is no theocracy or fundamentalism to fight for, because Christ's resurection is God's fulfillment of Israel's promises (Acts 13's sermon), so that whoever believes can be justified from their sin debts.

Your saying that C'ity is the correct fundamentalism is the most destructive thing I have read.

 

[Bible2]

Interplanner said in post 37:

the Heb. for daughter is Beth, from numerous examples.

Note that, per Strong's Concordance and Hebrew Dictionary, the original Hebrew word in Daniel 11:17 translated as "daughter" is "bath" (H1323).

The Hebrew word "bath" (daughter) in Daniel 11:17 could include a pun on "Baath", like how God employs a pun in Jeremiah 1:11-12 between "shaqed" (almond tree) and "shaqad" (hasten).

Interplanner said in post 37:

They are known and discussed by the parties involved who are hesitant because of the prospect of melt down.

What are they hesitant about? And what do you mean by "melt down"?

Interplanner said in post 37:

Paul used to be obsessed in Judaism (Acts 22) but did not have that mentality in C'ity, mainly because 'you don't make laws about these things (the fruit of the Spirit).'

Note that Biblical Christianity isn't lawless, but teaches that initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only "if" they continue in the faith to the end (Hebrews 3:6,12,14, Colossians 1:23). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to depart from the faith, to no longer believe, to commit apostasy (Luke 8:13; 1 Timothy 4:1; 2 Timothy 4:3-4; 2 Thessalonians 2:3, Hebrews 3:12, Matthew 13:21), to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Hebrews 6:4-8, John 15:6; 2 Timothy 2:12b, Mark 8:35-38, Hebrews 10:38-39, Matthew 24:9-13).

Also, even if they do continue in the faith, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they also patiently continue to the end in obedience and good works (Romans 2:6-8, James 2:24, Matthew 7:21, Philippians 2:12b; 2 Corinthians 5:9, Hebrews 5:9; 2 Peter 1:10-11, Hebrews 6:10-12, Philippians 3:11-14; 1 John 2:17b), as in works of faith (1 Thessalonians 1:3, Galatians 5:6b, Titus 3:8) (not works of the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to become utterly lazy without repentance, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Matthew 25:26,30, John 15:2a).

Also, even if they do continue in faith and good works of faith, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they also continue to repent from every sin that they might commit, to the end (Hebrews 10:26-29, 1 Corinthians 9:27, Matthew 7:22-23, Galatians 5:19-21). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that, instead of wrongly employing their free will to commit unrepentant sin, to the ultimate loss of their salvation (Luke 12:45-46; 2 Peter 2:20-22, Romans 8:13; 1 John 5:16, James 5:19-20).

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they get water-immersion (burial) baptized into Jesus' death for our sins (Mark 16:16; 1 Peter 3:21, Romans 6:3-11, Colossians 2:12, Galatians 3:27, Acts 2:38). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (cf. Acts22:16a).

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they partake of the divine flesh and blood of communion (John 6:53, Matthew 26:26-28; 1 Corinthians 10:16; 1 Corinthians 11:27-30). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (cf. John 6:60,66).

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they forgive everyone for every wrong (Matthew 6:14-15). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (Matthew 18:21-35).

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they do all that they can (Romans 12:18) to make reparations to and peace with everyone whom they've ever wronged (Matthew 5:23-26, cf. Acts 24:16). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that.

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they help Christians in need (Matthew 25:34-46). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (3 John 1:10b).

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they provide for their families (1 Timothy 5:8). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that.

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they don't commit the unforgivable sin, which is blaspheming the Holy Spirit (Mark 3:29). An example of blaspheming the Holy Spirit is saying that an act performed by the power of the Holy Spirit (e.g. Matthew 12:28) is performed by Satan (Mark 3:22-30). There's no assurance that initially saved people will never choose to say that (cf. 1 Corinthians 14:39b; 1 Thessalonians 5:19).

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they don't remove words from the text of the book of Revelation, and then publish the altered text as if it were the original, without repentance (Revelation 22:19). There's no assurance that they will never choose to do that (cf. 2 Corinthians 4:2).

Also, initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they don't worship the future Antichrist and his image, and willingly receive his mark on their right hand or forehead (Revelation 14:9-12, Revelation 13:16-18). There's no assurance that they won't choose to do that (1 Timothy 4:1).

Initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they continue in God's goodness to the end (Romans 11:20-22). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (Luke 12:45-46).

Initially saved people will obtain ultimate salvation only if they overcome to the end (Revelation 3:5, Revelation 2:26). And there's no assurance that they will choose to do that (Revelation 21:7-8).

All this is said not to engender any unhealthy fear in believers, but the healthy fear which all believers are supposed to have (e.g. Romans 11:20-22).

 

[hiscosmicgoldfish]

Just a note on trees and fruit.. I am sort of 'fundy, but I think the trees in the Garden of Eden are symbolic as is the fruit, symbols for something else, and various trees and fruit represent different nations and things, like perhaps the pomegranate represents the Ishmaelite's? And the palm tree? And the apple tree the Greeks.
If you study the Genesis account of the Garden, you'll notice that it is not describing any literal fruit.. (off topic).
Jesus talks about good and bad fruit.

 

[bibletruth469]

To bible 2- ok you believe in replacement theology; I do not . God will keep physical Israeli people a different group than the gentile nations. The bible shows that through many passages throughout scripture . Yes, we are grafted in, but as a group of people of the church who believe in Christ death burial and reserection . An unbeliever can not be part of the church.however, , he can become part of the church of Jesus Christ once he is born again . God doesn't change one group of people into another .

As for the passage I mentioned in Zechariah , I was making a point that the future war is coming. The nations of the world are lined up. Zechariah 12 shows that it is getting ready to be fulfilled soon. I believe this is a different war than the 2nd coming.