The Fear of Hell

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Presbyterian Continuist

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I wasn’t preached into the Kingdom of God by using the fear of hell but I was drawn into the Kingdom by the love of the Father.
so you are saying that your conscience was never awakened to realise your total sinfulness, and that you needed to flee from the wrath of God that will come upon you if you don't believe the gospel?
 
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Neogaia777

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You are correct. It is when the conscience is fully awakened to realise the awful and dismal state of the sinner and the real prospect of ending up in hell and the eternal wrath of God for their sinfulness, that when the gospel is presented, it is really good news to them.
It begins the really good news anyway...

God Bless!
 
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Jonaitis

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I think you have to be careful. Lord Jesus preached a great deal about the Kingdom of God. The first ever evangelistic rally made no mention of hell. 3,000 believers were added that day. By all means preach that sinners are disqualified from entering heaven. People need to be convicted of their sin and need to know that they are judged and found wanting. It's more that sinners are rejected by God than where they will end up. Luke 12:5 is followed by the exhortation not to fear. People need to know that God is far more interested in saving them than condemning them.

Jews understood the concept of punishment in the afterlife, it wasn't some novel idea that appeared out of nowhere. When Peter preached about salvation, God opened their mind to know what they needed salvation from and forgiveness for.
 
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Neogaia777

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I don't agree with that, I believe the NT gives clarity and expounds on what the Law already taught, rather than raising the bar. In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus corrects the false views of Law taken from the religious crowd and gives clarity to what it teaches. They figure that sin is only committed outside the body, and that God only cares for outward show of obedience rather than the motives of the heart. So while they don't commit adultery, they excuse sexual lust; while they don't murder, they excuse anger. Jesus corrects their misinformed understanding of the law and penetrates it deeper than the surface reading to show what the Law truly taught. I mean, you have to agree that the Law already set the highest standard of living anyways, right? I mean, the two greatest commandments originally were found in the Law of Moses, and what standard is higher than one's perfect devoted love to God with one's whole being and love for another as oneself? These two commandments go above and beyond what the Decalogue taught, and explains it too.

Well, we may have to agree to disagree on that/these points, but, yes back to subject at hand...

However, back to the subject at hand. What does the Law say about our failings? Does it not condemn us? Doesn't such condemnation lead us to Christ?

It does at first kind of condemn us and leads us to Christ that way, but not afterward, not after you are "in Christ", because after that, "There is now no condemnation (anymore) for those truly in Christ Jesus" (now or afterward) and your not supposed to let anyone take you back to that after that either...

It's not for believers IOW's, but those not believing yet...

God Bless!
 
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Neogaia777

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so you are saying that your conscience was never awakened to realise your total sinfulness, and that you needed to flee from the wrath of God that will come upon you if you don't believe the gospel?
Instead of trying to flee from the wrath of God, you better run to the feet of Jesus...

God Bless!
 
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ViaCrucis

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Romans 1:16-17 must be read with verses 18-32. "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven..."

It doesn't follow for people to understand why the gospel is good news if there is no mention for the necessity of it. When they speak about the gospel, they must include judgment and wrath.

Therein is the preaching of the Law. As I said already, the Law brings condemnation. There is no salvation in the Law.

You seem to want to argue, contrary to everything Scripture teaches, that our salvation isn't by God's grace alone; but is instead somehow also improved through our own efforts--after all, the Law is preached to say what we must do; but because we do not do it we stand condemned. Hence the preaching of the Law is for three uses:

1) To curb evil by instructing what is right and what is wrong.
2) To act as a mirror to reveal our weakness and total inability to be just according to God's commandments.
3) To establish a new way of living for the regenerate. That said, see number 2.

By all means the Law is to be preached, but it cannot and does not affect our salvation. No one has ever been saved by the preaching of the Law--for condemnation is unable to save; this should be obvious in that condemnation is condemnation.

Hence, as I've already said: Only Jesus Christ and His Gospel saves. Our salvation is by God's grace alone, through faith, on Christ's account alone.

The Law certainly drives us to our knees in grief, sorrow, and despair; and thus if we rightly know the Law and rightly dread it then the Gospel is all the more sweeter. Honey is all the more sweet when preceded by a bitter flavor.

But Jesus Christ saves. Period. His atoning work is sufficient. Period. God's grace is sufficient. Period.

By attempting to argue the way you are you are edging dreadfully near a confusion of Law and Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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If the purpose is to scare people, it would be futile because they don't believe in it.
The purpose is to awaken the conscience to realise that because of one's sinfulness they are in a state of hopelessness, and there is only a fearful expectation of the coming judgment and the prospect of an eternity in hell suffering the continuous wrath of God.

It is the same as teaching a child to be afraid of running out on a busy road without looking first to see what is coming. In a sense, to be fearful of a busy road is healthy because that fear causes a person to be careful of his personal safety. That is why a window cleaner on the side of a very tall building wears a safety harness, because without it he would be afraid of falling to his death. It is also the very real fear of being burned alive that causes a family to have smoke alarms and an evacuation plan so they can get out of the house as quickly as possible.

So, it is the healthy fear of hell that causes a person with an awakened conscience to seek God with all his heart to be shown the way to heaven.
 
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Jonaitis

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Therein is the preaching of the Law. As I said already, the Law brings condemnation. There is no salvation in the Law.

You seem to want to argue, contrary to everything Scripture teaches, that our salvation isn't by God's grace alone; but is instead somehow also improved through our own efforts--after all, the Law is preached to say what we must do; but because we do not do it we stand condemned. Hence the preaching of the Law is for three uses:

I never argued for this...
 
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Is that the Gospel Jesus spoke about?

Mark 16:15
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Mat. 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Yes it is. Jesus made more comments about judgment than anything else. It is the honest and true gospel, not the deceptive "easy believer" gospel that causes people to get religion and yet have unchanged hearts.
 
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Neogaia777

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When in doubt, always go back to the feet of Jesus...

Let him reassure you, dissuade your doubts, let you know where your really at now, etc... Proceed from there after that, etc...

Repeat whenever you need to, etc...

God Bless!
 
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ViaCrucis

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I never argued for this...

Not explicitly, but it is implicit. You are talking about preaching God's wrath (which is a matter of Law) in regard to salvation. You have said that no one is saved by only preaching the Gospel, even though it is precisely ONLY the preaching of the Gospel which is salvific; since the preaching of the Law can in no way render to sinful man any good. Condemnation is not salvation.

One is saved by the Gospel only. For Christ has died once and for all, and the word of this Gospel has sounded out.

No, preaching hell can save none.
The Law and its preaching does not aid or improve or benefit the sinner in regard to salvation.

Christ saves.
The Gospel saves.
The grace of God which is for every sinner saves.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Yes it is. Jesus made more comments about judgment than anything else.

Why do people continue to make this claim? It's not true.

The topic which Jesus spoke the most on was God's kingdom.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Neogaia777

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Not explicitly, but it is implicit. You are talking about preaching God's wrath (which is a matter of Law) in regard to salvation. You have said that no one is saved by only preaching the Gospel, even though it is precisely ONLY the preaching of the Gospel which is salvific; since the preaching of the Law can in no way render to sinful man any good. Condemnation is not salvation.

One is saved by the Gospel only. For Christ has died once and for all, and the word of this Gospel has sounded out.

No, preaching hell can save none.
The Law and its preaching does not aid or improve or benefit the sinner in regard to salvation.

Christ saves.
The Gospel saves.
The grace of God which is for every sinner saves.

-CryptoLutheran
The Law is for the unsaved, not those now truly saved, or saved after that, etc...

IOW's were not supposed to be preaching God's wrath or condemnation to "believers" anymore, or the saved already, but only the unsaved or those not saved yet...

This is where many (pastor's, preachers, etc) are making a lot of mistakes...

For us is the good news, having already been judged already, and already fully acquainted with God's wrath, but that is not for us anymore, etc, having been judged already, etc...

God Bless!
 
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I have no trouble with hell being preached. If it is hidden away then there is a problem. However not every body needs hell fire and brimstone preaching to come to God. The bible says:

Jud 1:22-23 And have mercy on those who doubt; save others by snatching them out of the fire; to others show mercy with fear, hating even the garment stained by the flesh.

Although that verse is talking about Christians, it also applies to sinners. There are many different types of people in the world. Those who are hurting, some caught in guilt, some willfully sinning. It is no good to present a God of hellfire to a hurting person, nor to one who knows their guilt.

Different people need a different message. This is why Jesus said when witnessing, "DON'T pre-mediate what you will say, for your father will speak through you". If we charge out into the world with any one message we are headed to cause more hurt than good, ultimately it will not hurt too much, but it will still hurt.

When witnessing we should be listening for the voice of our father, not just presenting facts.
The honest preaching of the gospel involves the preaching of the law to sinners to show them their failure in keeping it and the terrifying consequences involved. This is the awaken the conscience. Once the conscience is awakened, and the person cries out, "What shall I do to be saved?" rather than "What do I need to be saved from" as many with sleeping consciences will say, then the good news about Christ dying for their sins can be shared with them and the way to the narrow gate that leads to salvation in Christ can be shown to them.

Anyone can climb over the wall of religion and think they are saved by attending church, living a moral life, talking Christian jargon, having an intellectual knowledge of the Bible and even manifesting what they think are spiritual gifts, but they will not be acknowledged by Jesus and will end up in hell.
 
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Instead of trying to flee from the wrath of God, you better run to the feet of Jesus...

God Bless!
No one will really run to the feet of Jesus until they know that they have to flee from the wrath to come.
 
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ViaCrucis

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The Law is for the unsaved, not those now truly saved, or saved after that, etc...

IOW's were not supposed to be preaching God's wrath or condemnation to "believers" anymore, or the saved already, but only the unsaved or those not saved yet...

This is where many (pastor's, preachers, etc) are making a lot of mistakes...

For us is the good news, having already been judged already, and already fully acquainted with God's wrath, but that is not for us anymore, etc, having been judged already, etc...

God Bless!

The Law is for us too. Christ's commandments are binding, when He says, "Love the Lord your God...love your neighbor as yourself." That's Law. When He says, "Do not resist an evil person, if someone strikes you on the one cheek turn and offer the other as well" that is Law.

The Law remains the Law. It condemns our sin, and it instructs us in righteousness.

What is no longer applicable are the particular commandments given to the Jewish people exclusively as part of their unique covenant relationship to God.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Neogaia777

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No one will really run to the feet of Jesus until they know that they have to flee from the wrath to come.
Sometimes trying to run from God's wrath can kind of send you in the opposite direction of running to Jesus feet though, is more the point I was trying to make...?

God Bless!
 
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Therein is the preaching of the Law. As I said already, the Law brings condemnation. There is no salvation in the Law.

You seem to want to argue, contrary to everything Scripture teaches, that our salvation isn't by God's grace alone; but is instead somehow also improved through our own efforts--after all, the Law is preached to say what we must do; but because we do not do it we stand condemned. Hence the preaching of the Law is for three uses:

1) To curb evil by instructing what is right and what is wrong.
2) To act as a mirror to reveal our weakness and total inability to be just according to God's commandments.
3) To establish a new way of living for the regenerate. That said, see number 2.

By all means the Law is to be preached, but it cannot and does not affect our salvation. No one has ever been saved by the preaching of the Law--for condemnation is unable to save; this should be obvious in that condemnation is condemnation.

Hence, as I've already said: Only Jesus Christ and His Gospel saves. Our salvation is by God's grace alone, through faith, on Christ's account alone.

The Law certainly drives us to our knees in grief, sorrow, and despair; and thus if we rightly know the Law and rightly dread it then the Gospel is all the more sweeter. Honey is all the more sweet when preceded by a bitter flavor.

But Jesus Christ saves. Period. His atoning work is sufficient. Period. God's grace is sufficient. Period.

By attempting to argue the way you are you are edging dreadfully near a confusion of Law and Gospel.

-CryptoLutheran
The Law is preached by the evangelist to awaken the conscience to realise their own sinfulness before a holy God, and the horrible consequences of it. Then they are in a place where they can respond to the gospel and received Christ by grace through faith. Then the Law is no longer needed, because Christ has become their Law and they have the Holy Spirit in them to work holiness and sanctification in them.
 
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Neogaia777

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The Law is for us too. Christ's commandments are binding, when He says, "Love the Lord your God...love your neighbor as yourself." That's Law. When He says, "Do not resist an evil person, if someone strikes you on the one cheek turn and offer the other as well" that is Law.

The Law remains the Law. It condemns our sin, and it instructs us in righteousness.

What is no longer applicable are the particular commandments given to the Jewish people exclusively as part of their unique covenant relationship to God.

-CryptoLutheran
Sorry, I should have said the letter of the Law... Sorry I didn't specify...

Obeying from the heart does not come by the letter, nor by even studious observation of the commands studiously either...

It just comes from the born again heart, by the Spirit, by the renewed born again conscience...

God Bless!
 
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