The fatal flaw of Universalism

Saint Steven · Jan 17, 2020

Charlie24 said:
I like the (duh), it adds special effects.

IN Rev. 22 all those who suffer the second death have been cast into hell.

There will be two types of people on earth, those with a glorified body and those as we are now.

The scripture says, blessed are those who take part in the first resurrection.

These will be the ones who have the glorified bodies.

There are many more than TWO types of people on earth.
The scripture below refers to the NATIONS. How many types is that?
"... every nation, tribe, language and people."

Saint Steven said: ↑
There are two more chapters in Revelation. (duh)

Revelation 22:2
down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

Saint Steven · Jan 17, 2020

Question @Charlie24
Is this the Word of God?

1 John 2:2 King James Version (KJV)
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Charlie24 · Jan 17, 2020

Saint Steven said:
There are many more than TWO types of people on earth.
The scripture below refers to the NATIONS. How many types is that?
"... every nation, tribe, language and people."

Saint Steven said: ↑
There are two more chapters in Revelation. (duh)

Revelation 22:2
down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

No Steven! The nations will be regular human beings, the gloried are those who have died in faith from Adam until the coming of Christ.

All on earth at this time are the saved.

The leaves of healing are not for the glorified, they will not need it, the leaves of healing are for the nations of the world who are regular human beings.

Life goes on forever on earth.

Charlie24 · Jan 17, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Question @Charlie24
Is this the Word of God?

1 John 2:2 King James Version (KJV)
And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Here we go!!!! Multiple topics going on at once.

Der Alte · Jan 17, 2020

Shrewd Manager said:
Heterodox nonsense lol. Der Alter, the proper context for interpretation of scripture is Christ, and he is pro-life from a to z. So you're going against the Spirit if your eschatology is damnation. It renders the gospel incoherent. Not sure why you can't or won't recognize that.

Unlike a lot of folks I have read through the Bible. I have in fact read and taught through it more than once. I'm teaching at one institution now I'm finishing Numbers for the second time.
My method is this if the words of Jesus contradict, or are contradicted by, the words of a disciple, guess which one should be reinterpreted. Nope you got it wrong. Jesus never once said that everyone would be saved righteous and unrighteous, alike, even after death.

Saint Steven · Jan 17, 2020

Charlie24 said:
No Steven! The nations will be regular human beings, the gloried are those who have died in faith from Adam until the coming of Christ.

All on earth at this time are the saved.

The leaves of healing are not for the glorified, they will not need it, the leaves of healing are for the nations of the world who are regular human beings.

Life goes on forever on earth.

Why would THOSE nations need healing?

Saint Steven · Jan 17, 2020

Charlie24 said:
Here we go!!!! Multiple topics going on at once.

Have you heard of the NOTHING box? (why your brain can't handle multiple topics)
Don't worry, the video has NOTHING to do with UR. (really)

In this entertaining film, marriage expert Mark Gungor explores the differences between men and women.

Charlie24 · Jan 17, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Why would THOSE nations need healing?

Do you remember in the garden of Eden there was the tree of Life?

Adam and Eve had to eat from that tree in order to live forever.

That was God's plan, that man live forever in the flesh.

In the end, in Rev. 22, God replaces the tree of life with the 12 fruit trees that serve the same purpose, man will love forever in the flesh.

The leaves of healing are to control disease before it can begin.

None of this will effect the glorified, they will be as Christ was when He rose form the dead. Their bodies are immortal and indestructive.

Saint Steven · Jan 17, 2020

Charlie24 said:
In the end, in Rev. 22, God replaces the tree of life with the 12 fruit trees that serve the same purpose, man will love forever in the flesh.

The leaves of healing are to control disease before it can begin.

That's ridiculous. That's preventive medicine, not healing.

Charlie24 · Jan 17, 2020

Saint Steven said:
That's ridiculous. That's preventive medicine, not healing.

You better start reading up son!!! There's a whole Bible out there that you know nothing about!

Saint Steven · Jan 17, 2020

Charlie24 said:
You better start reading up son!!! There's a whole Bible out there that you know nothing about!

Why can't you just admit it when you are wrong?
I hope you watched the NOTHING box video. Mandatory viewing for anyone planning to get married some day.

Saint Steven · Jan 17, 2020

Charlie24 said:
You better start reading up son!!! There's a whole Bible out there that you know nothing about!

I read it cover to cover.
I didn't like the ending, so I tossed it.

Der Alte · Jan 17, 2020

Oldmantook said:
That is laughable as you maintain your favorite list of cherry-picked verses to allegedly support your view. You are the one who asked me for a single verse from Revelation that states those in the LOF are saved. I simply complied with your request. Big careful what you ask for.

Big Fail! Your lack of comprehension is quite remarkable. Rev 7:14 indeed references the aorist tense. It refers to the saints who have survived the great tribulation and persevered in the faith. As a result, they are the saints who have ALREADY WASHED their robes and made them white.
Not so for those in the LOF who are situated outside the New Jerusalem (Rev 22:15). These are the ones WASHING their robes (Rev 22:14) as those in the City have already washed their robes.
Regarding Rev 22:14 from the Apostolic Bible Polyglot Interlinear.
14 Μακάριοι οἱ πλύνοντες
Blessed [are] those washing
Adj-NMP Art-NMP V-PPA-NMP
From Mounce's
Blessed are those who wash (plynontes | πλύνοντες | pres act ptcp nom pl masc) their robes, so they will have the right to the tree of life and may enter the city by its gates.
Plynontes is an active present participle appropriately translated as "washing."
The Greek in the Greek-English Lexicon (Thayer) reads as follows: plunontes tas stolas auton en to aimati arniou. T
My own hardback NASB-NIV Parallel NT in Greek and English contains the word plunontes.
From the textus receptus translation, we find the word as ποιουντες which is a present active participle translated as "doing" [his commands]....
Revelation 22:14 (KJV)
If you check Westcot & Hort's Greek NT we find the word plunontes translated as "laundering."
Revelation 22 - Interlinear Westcott & Hort WH Original Greek New Testament GNT Literal English Translation Strong's Concordance Online Parallel Bible Study
You have failed in that you have conflated the saints who have already WASHED their robes with the sinners in the LOF who are WASHING their robes. You are running out of excuses. Care to foist any more?

Wrong! I conflated nothing. I was talking about Rev 7:14 you are talking about Rev 22:14. Evidently according to Rev 22:14 some of those cast into the lake of fire and/or the dogs, sorcerers, fornicators, murderers, idolaters, and liars outside the city may be washing their robes. But nowhere does it say all. Maybe you can show me where it says everyone in the lake of fire and/or all the dogs, sorcerers etc outside the city are washing their robes.

Saint Steven · Jan 17, 2020

Question @Charlie24
Is this the Word of God?

Romans 11:32 King James Version (KJV)
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Saint Steven · Jan 17, 2020

Question @Charlie24
Is this the Word of God?

Romans 5:18-19 King James Version (KJV)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;
even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners,
so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Charlie24 · Jan 17, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Why can't you just admit it when you are wrong?
I hope you watched the NOTHING box video. Mandatory viewing for anyone planning to get married some day.

Steven, the leaves of healing are to heal all the disease in man at that point in time and keep disease from existing.

You are the hardest person I have ever tried to communicate with!

I am wrong every time I say anything because you don't believe it.

Charlie24 · Jan 17, 2020

I'm still looking for a proper response to post#522. From anybody!

Saint Steven · Jan 17, 2020

Charlie24 said:
I am wrong every time I say anything because you don't believe it.

That's not right. I liked post #557.

Saint Steven · Jan 17, 2020

Charlie24 said:
You are the hardest person I have ever tried to communicate with!

The feeling is mutual, I'm sure. (watch for the Agree ratings, I'm not alone)

Der Alte · Jan 17, 2020

Saint Steven said:
Question [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=4]@Charlie24[/SIZE][/FONT]
Is this the Word of God?

Romans 11:32 King James Version (KJV)
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

The word translated "might" is in the subjunctive mood which is "the mood of possibility and
potentiality. The action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances."
If Paul meant God will have mercy upon all he would have used the future, active, indicative as he did in Romans 9:15. What makes it possible and potential is the fact that not everyone will avail themselves of God's mercy.

The fatal flaw of Universalism

You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

Newbie

Newbie

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

Newbie

You can call me Steve

Newbie

You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

Newbie

Newbie

You can call me Steve

You can call me Steve

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president

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