THE FALSE TEACHINGS OF UNIVERSALISM - BEWARE!

[JacksBratt]

So everyone who tells the same joke more than two times is morally obligated to state after the 3rd time..."but you guys know i was joking, right"?

If I have to tell a joke twice, to the same audience... I don't usually go for a third.....

"Sure, what is wrong with letting a person live happily forever in “Sin City”, as opposed to being nonexistent or being roasted alive for endless ages. I know what my choice would be. And, morally speaking, I’d think a Loving Being would agree with that choice.

Actually, a "Loving Being" does let us live forever in a place that is far better than "Lost Wages"... how did you say "whoring" and other things..

Heaven is infinitely better than that. Heaven is described as being so wonderful that a human mind cannot even imagine that....

So, you think that after Christ endured the most torturous death that a human can endure... for you... that you should then spend eternity in a place like "lost wages"?

When simply acknowledging that you needed a savior and that Christ paid your debt... is all you have to do?

The thing is, if that person still had a conscience, how happy could they be in light of what i assume would be sinful selfish life? Would God turn off their conscience or memory of their life in the past? Would that put them on the level with being a mere animal? Would observing this person’s endless life in Vegas be a sweet smelling incense in God’s nostrils? Surely He has something better to offer and give, something far sweeter & more satisfying to both mankind, the angels & Himself.

Makes sense?"

Sorry, no offense but I'm missing your point here.

 

[JacksBratt]

Is there a point to posting that Scripture & the enlarged letters portion?

For emphasis....

 

[a-lily-of-peace]

Also for emphasis:

“No one, when he has lit a lamp, covers it with a vessel or puts it under a bed, but sets it on a lampstand, that those who enter may see the light. For nothing is secret that will not be revealed, nor anything hidden that will not be known and come to light. (Luke 8:16-17, NKJV)

 

[agapelove]

Simply because the others have a choice.. They are fully cognitive of their sinfulness, their rejection of Christ and their denial of a God.

Therefore, they are fully responsible for their choice.

Those who are ignorant of their sins for reasons of being an infant, mentally incapable, or just plain too young to comprehend it enough to have their eternal destiny held to their choices.... will be judged by a wonderfully loving, just and righteous Creator.

I would argue that there is no such thing as a person who is "fully cognitive of their sinfulness, their rejection of Christ and their denial of a God."

1 John 3:6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

What does this verse mean to you?

To me, it means that the wicked that go into the LOF are ignorant of their sins and ignorant of Christ, just like the infants and mentally incapable. Just because you have heard of Jesus Christ does not mean you KNOW him intimately like Christians do.

If I believe that God is fair, then I must believe that He will give all these "ignorant wicked people" the patience and forbearance to accept Him.

Paul says "I am persuaded that NEITHER DEATH, nor life shall separate us from the love of God." (Romans 8) The LOF is not an appeal directed at God to change His mind about the wicked but rather an appeal FROM God TO the wicked to change their mind about HIM.

 

[JacksBratt]

I would argue that there is no such thing as a person who is "fully cognitive of their sinfulness, their rejection of Christ and their denial of a God."

Well, I disagree..

Even so... it doesn't change the explanation at the end of my post.

Nobody will argue their judgement or sentence.

1 John 3:6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

What does this verse mean to you?

Taking one verse and asking "what does that mean to you... is never an argument.

How about this one? What does this verse mean to you?

Ecclesiastes 10:19 King James Version (KJV)

19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.

Or... this...

Deut. 23:1

No man whose testicles have been crushed or whose organ has been cut off may become a member of the Assembly of God.

To me, it means that the wicked that go into the LOF are ignorant of their sins and ignorant of Christ, just like the infants and mentally incapable. Just because you have heard of Jesus Christ does not mean you KNOW him intimately like Christians do.

What is "LOF"

If I believe that God is fair, then I must believe that He will give all these "ignorant wicked people" the patience and forbearance to accept Him.

That's your prerogative... But, God's ways are not mans ways and God tells us He will do things differently....

 

[agapelove]

Taking one verse and asking "what does that mean to you... is never an argument.

How about this one? What does this verse mean to you?

Ecclesiastes 10:19 King James Version (KJV)

19 A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things.
Or... this...
Deut. 23:1
No man whose testicles have been crushed or whose organ has been cut off may become a member of the Assembly of God.

It was not an argument it was a question, which you decided not to answer for some reason.

I will attempt to answer yours even though I do not see the relevance in them? Ecclesiastes is an observation on what humans naturally regard as important. Deuteronomy is in reference to the Mosaic law in which the Israelites used to differentiate themselves from the gentiles. The Assembly of God is not referring to the New Heaven and the New Earth but rather who the Israelites believed were descendants of Abraham.

Those passages reveal nothing about what we are talking about so I'm confused as to what point you are trying to make by citing them.

What is "LOF"

Lake of Fire.

That's your prerogative... But, God's ways are not mans ways and God tells us He will do things differently....

Exactly. Man believes in death penalty and life sentencing in prison with no parole.

 

[James A]

Thank you for the recommendation!

I still maintain that there are many things that can never be proven within the Bible, but accepted as true through faith alone.

That is what I thought for a long time but I was amazed to learn that there are historical proofs for many claims - including Resurrection.

 

[agapelove]

That is what I thought for a long time but I was amazed to learn that there are historical proofs for many claims - including Resurrection.

If you are referring to the empty tomb or the sightings of Jesus then I would say that is not necessarily concrete historical proof. (If there is more then I apologize for me not being aware of it)

If a coffin is empty my first thought is not that the person has resurrected. And it is not unusual for people to have visions of loved ones who have died.

Please do not get me wrong I am not arguing that the resurrection did not literally happen. I am just saying it is not all that important to prove that it did. If the resurrection (among other things in the Bible) could be PROVEN then I would hardly call Christianity a faith tradition.

To treat the resurrection as a historical/scientific inquiry is missing the bigger opportunity to exercise faith that is outside of these things. Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

 

[ClementofA]

If it takes 51 pages to get to “no comment” maybe 51 more will come to a response.

My apologies, i didn't wish to waste your time or realize a one word answer was preferred & there was no interest in the Scriptures used to support the viewpoint. I guess my first few words didn't give a hint regarding my personal answer to you. Though i'm not sure why you would really care. Universalism, all men will be saved, does not address the matter.


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One thing God has spoken, two things I have heard: “Power belongs to you, God, and with you, Lord, is unfailing love”; Psalm 62:11b-12a

"The simplest way to know if someone is preaching the gospel of grace is to evaluate whether the teaching glorifies our Lord Jesus."

Love Omnipotent loves you more than you can imagine!

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/unique_proof_for_universalism.html

 

[James A]

If you are referring to the empty tomb or the sightings of Jesus then I would say that is not necessarily concrete historical proof. (If there is more then I apologize for me not being aware of it)

If a coffin is empty my first thought is not that the person has resurrected. And it is not unusual for people to have visions of loved ones who have died.

Please do not get me wrong I am not arguing that the resurrection did not literally happen. I am just saying it is not all that important to prove that it did. If the resurrection (among other things in the Bible) could be PROVEN then I would hardly call Christianity a faith tradition.

To treat the resurrection as a historical/scientific inquiry is missing the bigger opportunity to exercise faith that is outside of these things. Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Trust me, "The case for Easter" presents undisputable evidence that Resurrection happened. I have not had a chance to read this book myself but my friends say "Cold case Christianity" is also worth reading.

For us believers, yes, the historical proof should not matter much because we must experience Him spiritually nonetheless, it made me a lot more confident when I learned about the historical accuracy of the NT claims.

 

[agapelove]

Trust me, "The case for Easter" presents undisputable evidence that Resurrection happened. I have not had a chance to read this book myself but my friends say "Cold case Christianity" is also worth reading.

For us believers, yes, the historical proof should not matter much because we must experience Him spiritually nonetheless, it made me a lot more confident when I learned about the historical accuracy of the NT claims.

Okay thank you I will check it out.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

I have given that dualism/bifurcation some thought - the concept of making a decision for or against Jesus the Christ before the instant of your death - leading to eternal results. I think it makes about as much sense as the position of the planets in the sky at the moment of your birth having a lasting effect on your life ever after...

Nice one, it's like the lottery in Babylon.

 

[a-lily-of-peace]

My apologies, i didn't wish to waste your time or realize a one word answer was preferred & there was no interest in the Scriptures used to support the viewpoint. I guess my first few words didn't give a hint regarding my personal answer to you. Though i'm not sure why you would really care. Universalism, all men will be saved, does not address the matter.


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I’m not sure there’s much left to say about the rest.

 

[Shrewd Manager]

Okay thank you I will check it out.

If you want some 'proofs' for the historicity of the Biblical account, you might like Chuck Missler's take. This vid is quite long, but contains many amusing and erudite insights imho.

 

[mmksparbud]

I have given that dualism/bifurcation some thought - the concept of making a decision for or against Jesus the Christ before the instant of your death - leading to eternal results. I think it makes about as much sense as the position of the planets in the sky at the moment of your birth having a lasting effect on your life ever after...

You have a problem with the thief on the cross making His decision before His death and Jesus accepting it?

 

[FineLinen]

The true basis of redemption

“God says He will reconcile all; the whole creation shall ultimately be delivered, and every created thing shall finally praise God (Revelation 5:13).

The point to note is that the final accomplishment of this purpose of God depends on Himself, and not on man.

The creature may fail, the Creator never fails; and no amount of blunders, mistakes, failures or perversions of the creature shall disarrange or thwart the plans of the Creator. This is the true basis of redemption.” -A.P. Adams-

 

[FineLinen]

Help, help, I’m drowning!

Dear drowning person, fear not. There is a potential saviour standing by. He wishes to save you if you will help assist him in the effort.

OR

God is the Saviour all mankind, He will reach you.

 

[JacksBratt]

It was not an argument it was a question, which you decided not to answer for some reason.

I will attempt to answer yours even though I do not see the relevance in them? Ecclesiastes is an observation on what humans naturally regard as important. Deuteronomy is in reference to the Mosaic law in which the Israelites used to differentiate themselves from the gentiles. The Assembly of God is not referring to the New Heaven and the New Earth but rather who the Israelites believed were descendants of Abraham.

Those passages reveal nothing about what we are talking about so I'm confused as to what point you are trying to make by citing them.



Lake of Fire.



Exactly. Man believes in death penalty and life sentencing in prison with no parole.

I wish man believed in the death penalty... in Canada... and much of the US.. they don't.

And, the reason that I did not respond to your one single verse.. is because it is never a good idea to take one single verse about complex theology and comment on that one verse.

Things are written in context with the chapter, book and verses surrounding it.

So many times, here, people quote one verse and found their entire faulty view on it alone.

 

[JacksBratt]

Also for emphasis:

“No one, when he has lit a lamp, covers it with a vessel or puts it under a bed, but sets it on a lampstand, that those who enter may see the light. For nothing is secret that will not be revealed, nor anything hidden that will not be known and come to light. (Luke 8:16-17, NKJV)

Nice scripture.

Does it have any commentary to support what you think it is saying? Or are we just going to start posting bible verses and then drop the mike as if it has any relevance.

 

[Lazarus Short]

You have a problem with the thief on the cross making His decision before His death and Jesus accepting it?

Not at all, but I have a problem with people believing that he was in Paradise with Jesus the same day.