THE FALSE TEACHINGS OF UNIVERSALISM - BEWARE!

as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh,
Are Set Forth As An Example, Suffering The Vengeance Of Eternal Fire.
• Jude 1:7


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FineLinen said:

Write this to Ephesus, to the Angel of the church. The One with Seven Stars in his right-fist grip, striding through the golden seven-lights’ circle, speaks: “I see what you’ve done, your hard, hard work, your refusal to quit. I know you can’t stomach evil, that you weed out apostolic pretenders. I know your persistence, your courage in my cause, that you never wear out. But you walked away from your first love—why? What’s going on with you, anyway?Doyou have any idea how far you’ve fallen? A Lucifer fall!

“Turn back! Recover your dear early love. No time to waste, for I’m well on my way to removing your light from the golden circle. “You do have this to your credit: You hate the Nicolaitan business. I hate it, too. “Are your ears awake? Listen.

Listen to the Wind Words, the Spirit blowing through the churches. I’m about to call each conqueror to dinner. I’m spreading a banquet of Tree-of-Life fruit, a supper plucked from God’s orchard.” -MSG-

Write this to Sardis, to the Angel of the church. The One holding the Seven Spirits of God in one hand, a firm grip on the Seven Stars with the other, speaks: “I see right through your work. You have a reputation for vigor and zest, but you’re dead, stone-dead.

“Up on your feet! Take a deep breath! Maybe there’s life in you yet. But I wouldn’t know it by looking at your busywork; nothing of God’s work has been completed. Your condition is desperate. Think of the gift you once had in your hands, the Message you heard with your ears—grasp it again and turn back to God.

“If you pull the covers back over your head and sleep on, oblivious to God, I’ll return when you least expect it, break into your life like a thief in the night.

“You still have a few followers of Jesus in Sardis who haven’t ruined themselves wallowing in the muck of the world’s ways. They’ll walk with me on parade! They’ve proved their worth! “Conquerors will march in the victory parade, their names indelible in the Book of Life. I’ll lead them up and present them by name to my Father and his Angels.

“Are your ears awake? Listen. Listen to the Wind Words, the Spirit blowing through the churches.” -MSG-

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There are many dimensions of union & communion with the Father. For those who will reign with Him, it requires going a little further into His mighty dealings. Those prevailing individuals are stated as overcomers in the Revelation. They & they alone are not "hurt" by the 2nd death (aka The Lake of Theos).

And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Revelation 20:15, NKJV)

τὴν λίμνην τοῦ πυρός
the lake of pyros

"BUT WHEN A STRONGER THAN HE SHALL COME UPON HIM AND OVERCOME HIM, HE TAKES FROM HIM ALL HIS ARMOR, WHEREIN HE TRUSTED AND DIVIDES HIS SPOILS." -Luke 11:22) (Matt. 12: 29)-

1. Christ is stronger than Satan.

2. Christ will overcome Satan.

3.Christ will take from him all his armor.

4. Christ will divide (take away his spoils.)

Each of these statements contradicts the creed that teaches...

1. Evil is stronger than good.

2. That evil overcomes good in numberless cases.

3. That Satan's power for evil is not taken away, but lasts for ever.

4. That his spoils - the souls he has captured - are not divided & taken from him.

Our Lord's victory over the powers of evil does not consist in shutting up any of their captives in hell, but in liberating all.

a-lily-in-the-valley said:

And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
(Revelation 20:15, NKJV)

τὴν λίμνην τοῦ πυρός
the lake of pyros

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Dear Lily: There is no escape from the God of Fire!

The Lake of Theos, radiating with theion & theioo is where He deals with every last remnant of sin.

Our God IS consuming Fire !

Come, you children, listen to me;
I will teach you the fear of the Lord.
Who is the man who desires life,
And loves many days, that he may see good?
Keep your tongue from evil,
And your lips from speaking deceit.
Depart from evil and do good;
Seek peace and pursue it.
The eyes of the Lord are on the righteous,
And His ears are open to their cry.
The face of the Lord is against those who do evil,
To cut off the remembrance of them from the earth.
The righteous cry out, and the Lord hears,
And delivers them out of all their troubles.
The Lord is near to those who have a broken heart,
And saves such as have a contrite spirit.
Many are the afflictions of the righteous,
But the Lord delivers him out of them all.
He guards all his bones;
Not one of them is broken.
Evil shall slay the wicked,
And those who hate the righteous shall be condemned.
The Lord redeems the soul of His servants,
And none of those who trust in Him shall be condemned.
(Psalm 34:11-22, NKJV)

“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side.
The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, WHERE HE WAS IN TORMENT, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue,
Because I AM IN AGONY IN THIS FIRE.’ “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us. “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers.
Let Him Warn Them, So That They Will Not Also Come TO THIS PLACE OF TORMENT.’

• Luke 16:19-28



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FineLinen said:

Abraham's Bosom:The Parable;The Rich Man; Lazarus;The Deaths of the Rich Man and Lazarus;Abraham's Bosom; Lazarus In Abraham's Bosom; The Rich Man In Torment; The Great Gulf

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It Is A Place Of Torment and Agony.


In Hades, WHERE HE WAS IN TORMENT,

Because I AM IN AGONY IN THIS FIRE.

Let Him Warn Them, So That They Will Not Also Come TO THIS PLACE OF TORMENT.’

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Dear Jude: welcome to a parable.

"I speak to them in parables: Because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand."

FineLinen said:

Dear Jude: welcome to a parable.

"I speak to them in parables: Because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand."

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Hades is a real place. And Jesus also spoke of Hades when he wasn't speaking to people in Parables.


And you, Capernaum, will you be exalted to heaven? No, you will be brought down to Hades. For if the mighty deeds done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
• Matthew 11:23


And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church,
and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.
• Matthew 16:18


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Dear Jude: Of course Hades is a real place & one of the four (4) hells the Master of Reconciliation swallows into Himself!

FineLinen said:

Dear Jude: Of course Hades is a real place & one of the four (4) hells the Master of Reconciliation swallow into Himself!

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Yes, and it is a place of Torment and Agony.

Do you agree that Hades is a place of Torment and Agony ?


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There is absolutely NOTHING the victorious Christ of Glory has not & will not continue to prevail.

"BUT WHEN A STRONGER THAN HE SHALL COME UPON HIM AND OVERCOME HIM, HE TAKES FROM HIM ALL HIS ARMOR, WHEREIN HE TRUSTED AND DIVIDES HIS SPOILS." -Luke 11:22) (Matt. 12: 29)-

1. Christ is stronger than Satan.

2. Christ will overcome Satan.

3. Christ will take from him all his armor.

4. Christ will divide (take away his spoils.)

Each of these statements contradicts the creed that teaches...

1. Evil is stronger than good.

2. That evil overcomes good in numberless cases.

3. That Satan's power for evil is not taken away, but lasts for ever.

4. That his spoils - the souls he has captured - are not divided & taken from him.

Our Lord's victory over the powers of evil does not consist in shutting up any of their captives in hell, but in liberating all.

Do you agree that Hades is a place of Torment and Agony ?


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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:

“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side.
The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, WHERE HE WAS IN TORMENT, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue,
Because I AM IN AGONY IN THIS FIRE.’ “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us. “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers.
Let Him Warn Them, So That They Will Not Also Come TO THIS PLACE OF TORMENT.’

• Luke 16:19-28




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Even of the rich man in Hades (Lk.16:19-31) it is not stated how long his torments would last while there. Or denied that they could end while still there. Nor is it denied he could be saved while still in Hades. The rich man's Saviour is in Hades:

"If I ascend up into heaven, Thou art there; If I make my bed in the nether-world (Sheol = Hades), behold, Thou art there." (Psalm 139:8)

The rich man is called "son" (literally, "child") :

Lk.16:25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things

"Here, too, was one who, even in Hades, was recognised as being, now more truly than he had been in his life, a “child” or “son of Abraham.” (Comp. Luke 19:9.) The word used is the same, in its tone of pity and tenderness, as that which the father used to the elder son in the parable of the Prodigal Son (Luke 15:31), which our Lord addressed to the man sick of the palsy (Matthew 9:2), or to His own disciples (John 13:33)." Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers

The rich man in Hades is receiving the Word of Truth from Abraham. If not to lead those there to repentance & salvation, why would anyone in Hades be receiving such truths.

When it is implied that the rich man is where he is due to his lack of compassion for his fellow man, in particular Lazarus, he responds positively by turning his attention from himself to his brethren still alive & requests that they be warned about Hades. Is the rich man turning from his selfishness & showing concern for others?

The story speaks of a great gulf fixed stopping the transfer of persons from one place to the other place. It does not say this gulf will remain in place forever. Only that at that moment in time it was so. Possibly the chasm barrier refers to the unrepentant state of those in Hades, & that once they repent the barrier stopping any individual from leaving is removed. Nor does the passage deny the possibility of salvation to the rich man in Hades while he remains there.

" “And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.” "

" "So even if we made the mistake of trying to extract from the details of this parable a position on the issue of whether there will be further chances, there still wouldn’t be much cause for taking this passage as supporting the doctrine of no further chances with any force at all. For as long as the [one] who believes in further chances sensibly allows for the possibility that, while punishment is occurring, those suffering from it can’t just end it any time they want, she can make perfectly good sense of the words this parable puts into the mouth of Father Abraham. After all, if a road has been covered with deep enough snow drifts, we’ll tell someone who must drive on that stretch of road to get to where we are, “You cannot cross over from there to us.” We’ll say this quite properly and truthfully, even if we know full well that the road will be cleared in a few days, or that, in a great enough emergency, a helicopter could be used to get across to us even today, if, say, we’re at a hospital. [But doesn’t that show that there is a sense, then, in which they can cross over to us? Yes, there’s a perfectly good sense in which they can, and a perfectly good sense in which they cannot. For enlightening and accessible explanations of the meaning of “can” and related words, I recommend Angelica Kratzer’s “What ‘Must’ and ‘Can’ Must and Can Mean” (Linguistics and Philosophy 1 (1977): pp. 337-355) and example 6 (“Relative Modality”) of David Lewis’s “Scorekeeping in a Language Game” (Journal of Philosophical Logic 8 (1979): pp. 339-359.]"

The duration, nature, intensity & purpose of the torments the rich man was suffering are not revealed in this story. His torments there could have lasted less than 5 minutes.

In Rev.20:11-15 those in Hades get out of Hades, so Hades (Lk.16:19-31) is not a place of unending torments. Assuming the parable's story is even to be taken literally.

Tom Talbott said:

"As for the unbridgeable chasm of which Jesus spoke in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, not one word in this parable, even if taken as literal history, as some do take it, implies that the chasm between Hades and Abraham’s bosom will remain unbridgeable forever. Do not Christians believe that the cross has already guaranteed the ultimate destruction of sin and death, where the “last enemy to be destroyed,” as we have already noted, “is death” itself? When 1 Peter 3:19 depicts Jesus as preaching to the spirits in prison (or those who were disobedient in the days of Noah) and 1 Peter 4:6 also depicts him as preaching the gospel to the dead, do these texts not illustrate perfectly the view of Elhanan Winchester,13 who wrote: “I believe, that Jesus Christ was not only able to pass, but that he actually did pass that gulph, which was impassable to all men but not to him”?14 Even if one should take the details of this parable more literally than one should, in other words, one can still view the Cross as the means whereby Jesus Christ has bridged this hitherto unbridgeable gulf. By flinging himself into the chasm between the dead and the living and by building a bridge over it, Jesus thus brought his message of repentance and forgiveness to all people, including those in Hades, which is the abode of the dead."

How to Read the Bible from a Universalist Perspective

We might also want to consider these passages in the same book of Luke's gospel:

Fear not, said the angel who announced it, for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. Luke 2:10.

Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. Luke 2:14.

Luke 3:5 Every valley shall be filled,
and every mountain and hill shall be made low,
and the crooked shall be made straight,
and the rough ways made smooth;
Luke 3:6 and all flesh shall see the salvation of God.’”

Luke 4:18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised.

But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Luke 6:35

Luke 15:3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying, 4What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
Luke 15:8 Either what woman having ten pieces of silver, if she lose one piece, doth not light a candle, and sweep the house, and seek diligently till she find it?

Lk17:4 Even if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times returns to say, ‘I repent,’ you must forgive him.”

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ClementofA said:

Even of the rich man in Hades it is not stated how long his torments would last while there.

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Regardless of the amount of time he was in Hades,
he was still experiencing Torment and Agony While In The Fire of Hades.


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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:

Do you agree that Hades is a place of Torment and Agony ?

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Hades is not native to ancient Jewish beliefs. It being a place of fiery torment and agony is borrowed from Greek mythology and forced its way into Christian doctrine through the Septuagint. The term you are looking for is sheol.

agapelove said:

Hades is not native to ancient Jewish beliefs. It Being A Place Of Fiery Torment And Agony is borrowed from Greek mythology and forced its way into Christian doctrine through the Septuagint. The term you are looking for is sheol.

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You Shall Make Them As A Fiery Oven In The time Of Your Anger; The LORD Shall Swallow Them Up in His Wrath, And The Fire Shall Devour Them.

• Psalm 21:9


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Jude1:3Contendforthefaith said:

You Shall Make Them As A Fiery Oven In The time Of Your Anger; The LORD Shall Swallow Them Up in His Wrath, And The Fire Shall Devour Them.

• Psalm 21:9

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I am talking about Hades not the consuming fire of God. The pagan word Hades replaced Jewish Sheol which originally simply meant the grave, not a fiery oven of torture. All people, righteous and wicked, went to the grave.