The Exodus

[Root of Jesse]

2 Chronicles 30:5
2 Chronicles 30:26

Says nothing of the sort. That says that not many celebrated it, which is something that happened often, the Jews faith fluctuating constantly. But some did. Just as today, not many Catholics actually practice their faith, that doesn't mean that nobody does.

 

[Goonie]

There are mentions of plague and famine and the disturbances of the Hyksos in the delta area which all fit the narrative. You are mistaken. There is evidence of slave uprisings in the period, but the major Egyptian 'driving out' of the Hyksos doesn't fit perfectly, I agree, but I have heard it argued that this is because we have the biased Egyptian propaganda to work from.

I am not saying we have conclusive evidence for the Exodus in the New Chronology, it just becomes more likely. There is some evidence in support thereof.

David Rohls 'Test of Time' was one of my favourite books whilst studying archaeology at university (not syllabus). Unfortunately there are problems with the new chronology,
http://www.biblearchaeology.org/pos...Chronology-A-View-From-Palestine.aspx#Article
http://anarchic-teapot.net/2013/03/david-rohl-how-to-fail-a-test-of-time/

 

[SnowyMacie]

It is entirely possible that the Exodus could have happened on a much smaller scale than described within scripture, but there is no archaeological evidence or trace that it happened on the scale described in scripture, which there should be if 6 million people moved from Egypt from Israel over 40 years.

 

[Quid est Veritas?]

David Rohls 'Test of Time' was one of my favourite books whilst studying archaeology at university (not syllabus). Unfortunately there are problems with the new chronology,
http://www.biblearchaeology.org/pos...Chronology-A-View-From-Palestine.aspx#Article
http://anarchic-teapot.net/2013/03/david-rohl-how-to-fail-a-test-of-time/

Yes, there are problems with it. As I said, the new chronology is a minority view.
There are also problems with the traditional Chronology however, such as the implications of the Greek dark age, the dating of Akhenaton's reign vis-a-vis his father's, Shesonq I not matching Shisaq's activities very well etc. We see also the tendency to try and have dynastys like the 21st and 22nd run concurrently to try and salvage the thirty dynasty spectrum of Manetho.

The fact of the matter is that before about the 600s BC and the start of proper Greek history taking, we cannot be sure of our dates. We try and match the records from different civilisations onto the Greek framework we inherited, but much of that is conjecture (hence the fall of Nineveh has been redated four times in the last 150 years). Thereafter we match the different records to each other to create a coherent narrative, but if one match is wrong, then much of the narrative crumbles.
It needs more study to try and piece the disparate elements together, so the argument of using timelines to try and disprove events from one people's history is quite fallible, which is what I was trying to point out in my original post. This is why Egyptology has never completely ruled out the Exodus (but considers it unlikely).

 

[DogmaHunter]

It is not an evidence at all.

Your exodus story makes predictions about the state of Egypt.
The predictions do not match the facts.

If that isn't evidence against the story, then what would be?

 

[DogmaHunter]

Secondly, our Christian Lord and Savior celebrated it just prior to His crucifixion, and equated himself with the Passover lamb. I'll believe him, regardless of what archaeologists have to say about it.

Yep. That's it. That's the problem right there.

Then you'll start making equivocations about the manna and the quail. I've heard Christians try to explain those scientifically, saying that the wind blew the quail off course and the manna was an aphid excretion. At any rate, I could care less what archaeologists have to say.

Yep, exactly. It doesn't matter to you at all. You have your beliefs and you're sticking to it. Not caring about any evidence. Not caring about being justified in your beliefs. Not caring about any possible evidence against it.

You just like your beliefs and hold them.

 

[juvenissun]

Your exodus story makes predictions about the state of Egypt.
The predictions do not match the facts.

This is new. What are the predictions?

 

[DogmaHunter]

This is new. What are the predictions?

I've told you in post 19.

When that many slaves simply walk out of the country, when an entire army gets destroyed in the process and if the "7 plagues" preceded that, we would expect chaos and much civil unrest, among other things. None of this is present. The opposite is actually true for the given period... Egypt was prospering and expanding after a series succesful military campaigns.

We would also expect neighbouring nations and enemies of Egypt to make mention of these events, but none of them do.

So in short, when we actually look at the data from that time, we see nothing at all that reflects the exodus story, or anything remotely like it.

 

[juvenissun]

I've told you in post 19.

When that many slaves simply walk out of the country, when an entire army gets destroyed in the process and if the "7 plagues" preceded that, we would expect chaos and much civil unrest, among other things. None of this is present. The opposite is actually true for the given period... Egypt was prospering and expanding after a series succesful military campaigns.

We would also expect neighbouring nations and enemies of Egypt to make mention of these events, but none of them do.

So in short, when we actually look at the data from that time, we see nothing at all that reflects the exodus story, or anything remotely like it.

I think what you said is absolutely normal in the recorded history at 5000 years ago.

 

[AV1611VET]

Did the Exodus really happen? I've read article both pro and con, and shades in between. Are there any good scholarly articles that support the Biblical account, or at least show its reasonably possible?

A key to this "mystery" are the Amalekites.

These elite desert warriors attacked the Jews as soon as they came out of Egypt, and were a thorn in their side right up until the very last one (Haman) was killed in Esther's time.

And God removed the memory of them from off the face of the earth.

Exodus 17:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.

Evidently God removed evidence of the Jews in the wilderness also, when He cleaned up on the Amalekites.

Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that the Jews didn't even have reason to leave any clothes behind -- not even their shoes.

Nothing wore out.

Deuteronomy 29:5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.

In addition, the Israelites were not haphazard and sloppy in their goings forth.

Numbers 20:17 Let us pass, I pray thee, through thy country: we will not pass through the fields, or through the vineyards, neither will we drink of the water of the wells: we will go by the king's high way, we will not turn to the right hand nor to the left, until we have passed thy borders.
Numbers 20:18 And Edom said unto him, Thou shalt not pass by me, lest I come out against thee with the sword.
Numbers 20:19 And the children of Israel said unto him, We will go by the high way: and if I and my cattle drink of thy water, then I will pay for it: I will only, without doing any thing else, go through on my feet.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Yep. That's it. That's the problem right there.



Yep, exactly. It doesn't matter to you at all. You have your beliefs and you're sticking to it. Not caring about any evidence. Not caring about being justified in your beliefs. Not caring about any possible evidence against it.

You just like your beliefs and hold them.

And you just like your beliefs and hold them. The evidence I have is that the Passover was celebrated from the year it happened every year by pious Jews. That Jesus celebrated it just before his Passion and Resurrection. You see, I know that Jesus was one of two things, either a liar or what he said he was. People, lots of them, died believing their beliefs even when given the chance to live by changing their beliefs. To me, that's evidence enough. You have lack of evidence. I have evidence. I'll go with positive, any time.

 

[HitchSlap]

A key to this "mystery" are the Amalekites.

These elite desert warriors attacked the Jews as soon as they came out of Egypt, and were a thorn in their side right up until the very last one (Haman) was killed in Esther's time.

And God removed the memory of them from off the face of the earth.

Exodus 17:14 And the LORD said unto Moses, Write this for a memorial in a book, and rehearse it in the ears of Joshua: for I will utterly put out the remembrance of Amalek from under heaven.

Evidently God removed evidence of the Jews in the wilderness also, when He cleaned up on the Amalekites.

Another thing to keep in mind is the fact that the Jews didn't even have reason to leave any clothes behind -- not even their shoes.

Nothing wore out.

Deuteronomy 29:5 And I have led you forty years in the wilderness: your clothes are not waxen old upon you, and thy shoe is not waxen old upon thy foot.

In addition, the Israelites were not haphazard and sloppy in their goings forth.

Numbers 20:17 Let us pass, I pray thee, through thy country: we will not pass through the fields, or through the vineyards, neither will we drink of the water of the wells: we will go by the king's high way, we will not turn to the right hand nor to the left, until we have passed thy borders.
Numbers 20:18 And Edom said unto him, Thou shalt not pass by me, lest I come out against thee with the sword.
Numbers 20:19 And the children of Israel said unto him, We will go by the high way: and if I and my cattle drink of thy water, then I will pay for it: I will only, without doing any thing else, go through on my feet.

This is a pathetic attempt to justify the lack of evidence.

 

[Strong in Him]

Did the Exodus really happen? I've read article both pro and con, and shades in between. Are there any good scholarly articles that support the Biblical account, or at least show its reasonably possible?

I don't know about scholarly accounts but I would have thought the fact that Josephus, and maybe other historians, wrote about it, it is such an important part of the Jewish faith and Jesus spoke of it, must count for something.

 

[AV1611VET]

This is a pathetic attempt to justify the lack of evidence.

That's because you're an atheist and don't like GOD DID IT answers.

Evidence beggars are like little kids being pushed around in the grocery store in the cart saying, "Mom, I want that! Mom I want that!"

 

[Kenny'sID]

There is zero evidence to support that an event the size and scope of the exodus described in the OT ever occurred. It's generally held to be myth at this point.

You start off with something that I do not believe is the truth at all, so not sure how to or even if I should respond to your posts here.

But maybe I misunderstood, or maybe you can back up your fact it's "Generally held to be a myth"?

 

[DogmaHunter]

I think what you said is absolutely normal in the recorded history at 5000 years ago.

That doesn't make any sense.

 

[DogmaHunter]

And you just like your beliefs and hold them.

My irony meter just exploded.......

No, I don't have any particular emotional attachment to what I consider likely to be true.....

The evidence I have is that the Passover was celebrated from the year it happened every year by pious Jews. That Jesus celebrated it just before his Passion and Resurrection.

You don't know this. You merely believe this.
And even if it's true, people celebrating something, doesn't mean it's based on actual truth.

Many traditional holidays are founded in myth and legend.

You see, I know that Jesus was one of two things, either a liar or what he said he was.

Have you ever considered the possibility that Jesus never actually said any such thing and that people just attributed certain statements to him?

People, lots of them, died believing their beliefs even when given the chance to live by changing their beliefs.

2 weeks ago, 3 people died in Brussels believing their beliefs, in a suicide attack.

To me, that's evidence enough.

I guess then, that you consider ISIS suicide bombers to be evidence of islam?

You have lack of evidence. I have evidence. I'll go with positive, any time.

What you call evidence, is no evidence at all. It's just evidence that people believed things. It's not evidence that what they believed was actually correct or accurate.

 

[juvenissun]

That doesn't make any sense.

It does.

 

[HitchSlap]

That's because you're an atheist and don't like GOD DID IT answers.

"Right you are Ken."

 

[HitchSlap]

You start off with something that I do not believe is the truth at all, so not sure how to or even if I should respond to your posts here.

But maybe I misunderstood, or maybe you can back up your fact it's "Generally held to be a myth"?

When a story doesn't have any evidential support, and thus doesn't comport with reality, it's generally better explained as myth.