The developmental concept of satan

[tonychanyt]

The behavior of satan was complex. This OP is about the developmental character of satan [lowercase].

Was evil present in the Garden of Eden?

With hindsight, I think so. Jesus spoke to the antagonistic Jews in John 8:

44 "You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

The devil lied and killed Adam and Eve's spiritual consciences. As far as Jesus was concerned, he was a sinner from the beginning.

The idea of a tester/tempter was first introduced in Genesis 3:

1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”

That was the first sign that there was a creature who questioned the word of God.

This beginning of an evil force was later portrayed by the satan against the upright Job. God allowed the satan to test him, Job 1:

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God [ben elohim] came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan [the satan H7854] also came among them.

The satan appeared as a member of God's court, acting as a tester or prosecutor of human faith.

Strong's Hebrew: 7854. שָׂטָן (satan) — 27 Occurrences

The root meaning of שָׂטָן is "adversary," "opponent," or "accuser."

Using a definite article means that satan was not a proper personal name. With the definite article, the satan sounds like a job title. Further, the same H7854-satan appears in (ESV) 1 Samuel 29:

4 But the commanders of the Philistines were angry with him [David]. And the commanders of the Philistines said to him, “Send the man back, that he may return to the place to which you have assigned him. He shall not go down with us to battle, lest in the battle he become an adversary [satan H7854] to us. For how could this fellow reconcile himself to his lord? Would it not be with the heads of the men here?

Here, satan refers to David. Elsewhere, the concept of satan was tied closely to God himself in the Balaam incident in the Aramaic Bible in Plain English Numbers 22:

22 And the wrath of God was provoked against him because he went, and the Angel of LORD JEHOVAH stood in the road to be Satan an adversary to him, and he rode on his donkey and his two young men with him.

Balaam was going the wrong path. God sent an adversary (satan) to correct him.

Later, Satan appeared in 1Ch 21:

1 Satan [satan, no definite article, LXX G1228 διάβολος] rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.

There is a parallel account in 2 Samuel 24:

1 Again the anger of the LORD was aroused against Israel, and He moved David against them to say, “Go, number Israel and Judah.”

The LORD used satan to accomplish his will against David! Sometimes, he sent out evil spirits.

Later still, the good prophet Micaiah saw the Lord permitting a spirit to lie in the mouths of Ahab's bad prophets to deceive Ahab. Micaiah said in 1 Kings 22:

23 “So now the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you.”

By the time of the exile, something had changed fundamentally in Daniel 10:

12 Then he continued, “Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. 13 But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me,

This was angel against angel. It was an open rebellion. This satan/adversary opposition force opposed not only humans,

because I was detained there with the king of Persia. 14 Now I have come to explain to you what will happen to your people in the future, for the vision concerns a time yet to come.”

There were angelic forces for and against Daniel. These were two distinct wills but only one was for God.

In the NT, the satan concept became the person Satan, the devil, Matthew 4:

1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 10 Jesus said to him, “Away from me, Satan! For it is written: ‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.’ ”
11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

Demons became rampant, Luke 8:

30 Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” “Legion,” he replied, because many demons had gone into him.

Satan lost his position in heaven, Luke 10:

17 The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!” 18 And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

After Jesus' Cross, Satan, who accused us day and night before our God, was thrown down to the earth (Rev 12:9-11). Jesus now is our Advocate-Paraclete before God (1 John 2:1, Romans 8:34). Satan no longer had access to God.

Satan lost his access to God when Jesus died on the Cross before Jesus ascended to the right hand of God.

Hebrews 2:

14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he [Jesus] too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil

Over time, Satan's character has become increasingly independent of God. Even the concept of testing/tempting has evolved. In the OT, God tested/tempted Abraham. After Satan went rogue, God tested people, and Satan tempted people. Right now, Satan is the ruler of this world.

Paul used Satan in 1 Timothy 1:

20b Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I [Paul] have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

Satan is the dragon in Revelation 20:

1 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.

The concept of the satan changed over time. God used the serpent to test Adam and Eve in the Garden. God permits Satan to tempt us today. In the Garden, satan manifested itself as the serpent.

In the end, Revelation 20:

10 the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

The word שָׂטָן (H7854 satan) appears only 27 times. It could be used as a noun, an adjective, or a verb. There is a more common word צָר (H6862 tsar), often translated as adversary. H6862 appears 111 times.

In hindsight, Jesus told us that satan was a bad guy right from the beginning when he did the temptation works for God. God created the satan to tempt/test people in God's way. The satan had his own ambition and enjoyed accusing good people before God. He became more and more disobedient and conspired to overthrow God. Some bad angels and demons sided with him.

The Son of God came on earth to die for people's sins. After his resurrection, he ascended to the right hand of God and became our Advocate. The Accuser was kicked out.

 

[cappylr]

I am confused about being made in gods image then being put in a paradise to encounter evil that God knew we could not resist then need to be forgiven for sins that we never would have encountered had we not been made into it...what am I missing?

 

[Paleouss]

Was evil present in the Garden of Eden?

Lucifer, aka Satan, the Devil was in the Garden of Eden.

The throwing down of the “stars” (Rev 12:4), the “serpent of old” (Rev 12:9), and a serpent in the garden of Eden (Gen chapter 3, Eze 28:13), appear to connect the dots of Satan being in the Garden of Eden.

Additionally, the biblical text says the devil (Satan) “has sinned from the beginning” (1John 3:8) and was “a murderer from the beginning” (John 8:44). In what beginning do these verses refer? It would seem logical to think that this ‘beginning’ refers to either (a) Satan’s beginning, which seems less likely since Satan’s beginning was a “seal of perfection” (Eze 28:12) and he was “perfect in your ways from the day you were created” (Eze 28:15). So the other option would appear more likely, this is, (b) mankind's beginning. In other words, Satan was there in the garden as a “murderer” and “sinned” from [mankind's] beginning.

Peace be to you my brother

 

[tonychanyt]

I am confused about being made in gods image then being put in a paradise to encounter evil that God knew we could not resist then need to be forgiven for sins that we never would have encountered had we not been made into it...what am I missing?

See This world is testing ground

 

[tonychanyt]

Lucifer, aka Satan

See Lucifer = Satan?

 

[childeye 2]

This beginning of an evil force was later portrayed by the satan (the accuser, the adversary) against the upright Job. God allowed the satan to test him, Job 1:

In hindsight, Jesus told us that satan was a bad guy right from the beginning when he did the temptation (dirty) works for God.

Adam is made in God's image. The Christ is the True Image sent by God.

In the garden the serpent talked to Eve as if he knew God better than the man or the woman did. And there I read that the serpent characterizes God as being disingenuous by forbidding them from something that would be good for them. I sense the vanity of vainglory in his words.

In the book of Job, (the) Satan was talking as if he knew the man better than God did. And there he characterizes the man as untrustworthy; only serving God so as to get good things.

Again, looks to me like projecting the vanity of vainglory. And it's also playing both a tempter and accuser working both ends against the middle, promoting cynicism from both sides.

Wherefore because the serpent put enmity between God and mankind, God put enmity between the serpents seed and the woman's seed. I'm not sure why you would say that Satan did the temptation (dirty) works for God. To me the deterministic view is that God allowed the futility of cynicism to show its due course, and thereby show that hope eternal is only in grace through faith.

 

[cappylr]

See This world is testing ground

I realize evil was already here but why make us in his image but then put us in a place of evil to be tested in ways we will surely fail? I have heard many stories of the evil on earth and we are wicked in our hearts ect. I have experienced to much in my life not to believe but trying to explain to anyone why is very confusing to articulate. Adam seems less guilty than he has been portrayed he was just a man playing a rigged game set up to punish man for sins that he was guaranteed to make from the start. yes I am very confused please be gentle

 

[tonychanyt]

I realize evil was already here but why make us in his image but then put us in a place of evil to be tested in ways we will surely fail? I have heard many stories of the evil on earth and we are wicked in our hearts ect. I have experienced to much in my life not to believe but trying to explain to anyone why is very confusing to articulate. Adam seems less guilty than he has been portrayed he was just a man playing a rigged game set up to punish man for sins that he was guaranteed to make from the start. yes I am very confused please be gentle

These are good questions and I have heard many different answers. Ultimately, I always go back to the answer, to Jesus. Everything points to the Son of God. Outside of Jesus, there is no satisfactory answer. In Christ, we have peace. The Bible is primarily about Jesus.

 

[cappylr]

These are good questions and I have heard many different answers. Ultimately, I always go back to the answer, to Jesus. Everything points to the Son of God. Outside of Jesus, there is no satisfactory answer. In Christ, we have peace. The Bible is primarily about Jesus.

Thank you

 

[Reasonably Sane]

I realize evil was already here but why make us in his image but then put us in a place of evil to be tested in ways we will surely fail? I have heard many stories of the evil on earth and we are wicked in our hearts ect. I have experienced to much in my life not to believe but trying to explain to anyone why is very confusing to articulate. Adam seems less guilty than he has been portrayed he was just a man playing a rigged game set up to punish man for sins that he was guaranteed to make from the start. yes I am very confused please be gentle

This is one of the reasons I had such a hard time with my belief in ECT. As I learned more and more about the personality of God through answers to prayer, reading the bible, listening to preachers, and reading the bible, I saw this as a problem:

God created man, and loves us all more than an earthly father can love his children.
God knows everything, past, present and future.
God puts us in the garden and KNOWS we will defy him, which leads to our death.
God sends his son to die and be resurrected as a perfect sacrifice for our sins against God, bringing eternal life to those who accept the gift.
God knows that the road is narrow, so most will not accept this free gift.
God sends those who do not accept this free gift into everlasting, conscious torment.

So, God created the human race to be stewards of this particular planet, knowing we would defy him, condemning us all. He then offers another way to eternal life because he loves us, knowing full well that most will reject that offer and decide they don't need God. So from the beginning God knows that most of the humans he creates will suffer consciously for all eternity. That is not the personality of God reflected in either testament.

My take: All of the above except those that refuse his free gift die not only in body, but later their soul dies as well - that is, the person dies. They are simply removed, leaving those that survived the "testing ground" of this life on earth.

God's free gift offered through the death and resurrection of Jesus is not about heaven or hell. It is not about geography. It is about condition. Even John 3:16 is clear. Eternal life vs perish. You are alive or you are dead.

And I've experienced "death" during heart surgery when they completely stopped my heart for 6 hours, and I was awakened after 11 hours of surgery. The difference is that I was awakened at the end. But as far as I was concerned, those 11 hours never happened. My waking was instantaneous with my going out at the very beginning. For those 11 hours I "didn't exist".

The wages of sin is death.

 

[tonychanyt]

And I've experienced "death" during heart surgery when they completely stopped my heart for 6 hours, and I was awakened after 11 hours of surgery. The difference is that I was awakened at the end. But as far as I was concerned, those 11 hours never happened. My waking was instantaneous with my going out at the very beginning.

Interesting. Check out Do believers go to heaven immediately after death?

 

[tonychanyt]

Actually, he works against God and the salvation of mankind.

That happened later. Did you read my OP? Can you quote my words and contradict them?

 

[truthpls]

That happened later. Did you read my OP? Can you quote my words and contradict them?

I didn't want to talk too much about Satan. Looking at your post it seems less than clear what you were trying to say. How about stating it?

 

[Grip Docility]

In hindsight, Jesus told us that satan was a bad guy right from the beginning when he did the temptation (dirty) works for God.

I had to do a double take. I was concerned when you had the words "dirty works" for God.

I reread the sentence and now understand your implication to be that satan acted in a dirty way, while pretending to do evil in the name of God and by God's blessing, or deceitfully in a way that would appear to be God's will, though satan's evil works were all on satan and no part of God's doing or will. Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[tonychanyt]

I didn't want to talk too much about Satan. Looking at your post it seems less than clear what you were trying to say. How about stating it?

stating what? Can you be more precise?

 

[tonychanyt]

I had to do a double take. I was concerned when you had the words "dirty works" for God.

I reread the sentence and now understand your implication to be that satan acted in a dirty way, while pretending to do evil in the name of God and by God's blessing, or deceitfully in a way that would appear to be God's will, though satan's evil works were all on satan and no part of God's doing or will. Am I understanding you correctly?

Right.

In any case, I deleted the word "dirty," which was a bit misleading. Thanks.

 

[truthpls]

stating what? Can you be more precise?

Your point. Are you saying Satan was a real spirit that inhabited the serpent - or?

 

[tonychanyt]

Your point. Are you saying Satan was a real spirit that inhabited the serpent - or?

My point is stated in the OP's title. The concept of the satan has changed over time. God used the serpent to test Adam and Eve in the Garden, and God permits Satan to tempt us today. In the Garden, the satan manifested itself as the serpent. Are you able to distinguish between the concepts of satan and Satan?

 

[truthpls]

My point is stated in the OP's title. The concept of the satan has changed over time. God used the serpent to test Adam and Eve in the Garden, and God permits Satan to tempt us today. In the Garden, the satan manifested itself as the serpent. Are you able to distinguish between the concepts of satan and Satan?

It was Satan in the garden. Personally.

 

[tonychanyt]

It was Satan in the garden. Personally.

verse?