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The Evolution of Morality

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Oncedeceived

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How did God reveal himself to you in a way that your mind could not have manufactured?

I prayed for something that was rare and something that others could observe.

Let me finish with this; I take no issue with a believer that states they believe God exists and they have strong faith that they are right. What I do take issue with, are those who claim their believe makes them better than a non-believer (who is missing the boat), or they are being led astray and just haven't reached out to God.

I certainly hope that is not what you thought that I was doing. I don't believe I am better than anyone else.

That, I have a significant issue with, because it is impossible to know that. I also take issue, when a believer states they have objective evidence that anyone can see that God exists and this personal interpretation of evidence applies to all, because that evidence does not exist.

Objective evidence does exist, however, our own personal presuppositions do not allow us to view it outside of that worldview.

I have always been quite leery of anyone who claims that it is impossible for them to be wrong about something and especially something like God who is invisible. That tells me, they have preloaded their psyche and would never accept objective evidence, even if it hit them in the face.

Well what evidence do you feel I am ignoring due to my preloaded psyche?

As I have stated, I may be wrong in thinking a God doesn't exist, because I am always open to observing evidence and observations. I may be wrong in supporting the theory of evolution, despite the boatload of evidence to support the same.

Evolution is not a Creation vs. Evolution situation.

There is always the chance, something comes along that has more evidence and logic behind it. I don't see a lot of logic behind the christian God and the story doesn't hold water to me when compared with the real world and a critical examination of the bible. I give the christian God the smallest chance of being real, while giving a universal non-personal God a slightly better chance of being real.

WEll that is your choice. It is a choice.
 
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HitchSlap

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God used water and earth to make living creatures. Adam is specifically said to have been made from the earth. Eve was made from a part of Adam.

Do I have to copy and paste the scriptures or do you have a bible handy? It will take one second to turn to Genesis and start reading.

God did no such thing. All evidence suggests that modern hominids have been around about 200,000 years and that male and females evolved together, not one from another's rib. Also, humans are primarily C,H,O,N,P and S, not dirt.
 
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Oncedeceived

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Exactly my point ... we don't know. So why muddy the water with an additional belief you don't know about? It violates the law of parsimony.

Perhaps it is ToE that is an additional belief that violates the law of parsimony.

Also, you keep asserting god says this, and god claims that. Let's be honest here, all you have is what humans wrote down and said "god said it." That's a big difference. We know humans wrote it down, because the Bible's chock full of errors, contradictions, lies and mistakes, and you have no originals, only copies of copies of copies. So please don't insult my intelligence and claim the Bible is written in god's own handwriting, when clearly, it's not.

There are some verses that can be said to be contradictions but most are due to lacking an understanding of context or time frame. Errors of what nature? That a rabbit chews its cud? Now lies that is a different realm all together. Provide these lies please.

We do not have the originals true. But we know that it was common practice to write down everything during the period we are speaking about.
 
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EternalDragon

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God did no such thing. All evidence suggests that modern hominids have been around about 200,000 years and that male and females evolved together, not one from another's rib. Also, humans are primarily C,H,O,N,P and S, not dirt.

Where are oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus found?

I'll tell you where. The earth.

The mass of the Earth is approximately 5.98×1024 kg. It is composed mostly of iron (32.1%), oxygen (30.1%), silicon (15.1%), magnesium (13.9%), sulfur (2.9%), nickel (1.8%), calcium (1.5%), and aluminium (1.4%); with the remaining 1.2% consisting of trace amounts of other elements. Due to mass segregation, the core region is believed to be primarily composed of iron (88.8%), with smaller amounts of nickel (5.8%), sulfur (4.5%), and less than 1% trace elements.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_the_chemical_elements#cite_note-pnas71_12_6973-10
 
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HitchSlap

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Perhaps it is ToE that is an additional belief that violates the law of parsimony.



There are some verses that can be said to be contradictions but most are due to lacking an understanding of context or time frame. Errors of what nature? That a rabbit chews its cud? Now lies that is a different realm all together. Provide these lies please.

We do not have the originals true. But we know that it was common practice to write down everything during the period we are speaking about.
Evolution by means of natural selection is the most parsimonious explanation there is. It's robust and backed by mountains of evidence. This is not even up for serious debate.

As for lies, no record of Herod killing all males two years and under.
 
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HitchSlap

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Where are oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus found?

I'll tell you where. The earth.

The mass of the Earth is approximately 5.98×1024 kg. It is composed mostly of iron (32.1%), oxygen (30.1%), silicon (15.1%), magnesium (13.9%), sulfur (2.9%), nickel (1.8%), calcium (1.5%), and aluminium (1.4%); with the remaining 1.2% consisting of trace amounts of other elements. Due to mass segregation, the core region is believed to be primarily composed of iron (88.8%), with smaller amounts of nickel (5.8%), sulfur (4.5%), and less than 1% trace elements.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_the_chemical_elements#cite_note-pnas71_12_6973-10
Which would support ToE, but not the claim we're made of "dust of the earth."
 
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Oncedeceived

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Then Strobel is a simpleton when it comes to critically evaluating historical documents and history. I'll never understand the mental capacity of someone who claims they "investigated" the claims of Jesus, only to discover the paucity of available evidence to suggest a man named Jesus ever lived, let alone was a god-man who performed miracles and rose from the dead. Then comes to the conclusion that god/jesus/holy spirits are real and they want to know me personally.

So you don't give any acknowledgement of the outside sources that show that Jesus did indeed live, performed "magic" and who was put to death?
 
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Loudmouth

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Where are oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus found?

I'll tell you where. The earth.

The mass of the Earth is approximately 5.98×1024 kg. It is composed mostly of iron (32.1%), oxygen (30.1%), silicon (15.1%), magnesium (13.9%), sulfur (2.9%), nickel (1.8%), calcium (1.5%), and aluminium (1.4%); with the remaining 1.2% consisting of trace amounts of other elements. Due to mass segregation, the core region is believed to be primarily composed of iron (88.8%), with smaller amounts of nickel (5.8%), sulfur (4.5%), and less than 1% trace elements.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_the_chemical_elements#cite_note-pnas71_12_6973-10

There are massive amounts of silicon in clay and other earth minerals, and yet we aren't made of silicon. Why is that?
 
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Oncedeceived

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New discovery concerning the Exodus:

The Problem

If one attempts to harmonize biblical and secular histories, working back from the time of Christ, little difficulty is encountered until one gets back prior to the United Kingdom (i.e., until before the time when Saul became King of Israel). There is no doubt that the central people and places named in the New Testament existed, for example, and a number of Israel's kings are named in the literature of surrounding countries.
But when one begins to work back much prior to the United Kingdom period the picture changes completely. For example: none of the prominent figures of the Exodus can be positively identified in secular records; the chronology and history of Egypt seem incompatible with the biblical account; the archaeology of Jericho cannot be made to fit the biblical record of Joshua's defeat of that city without sacrificing biblical and scientific integrity; and the situation at Ai is even less workable. The trail of harmony between biblical and secular history is lost as one moves back into the period of the judges.
This problem is widely recognized. In fact, the majority of scholars today have concluded that the Bible is simply not historically reliable before the United Kingdom period. They explain away the earlier portions of the Bible as folktales bearing little if any resemblance to real history. Until recently, conservative, Bible-believing scholarship has been in a difficult position. If the Bible tells an accurate story of history, why do archaeology and the Bible not agree prior to the United Kingdom period?
The Solution

Gerald E. Aardsma, Ph.D., has proposed that this apparent disharmony results from a problem in traditional biblical chronology. Traditional biblical chronologies are constructed by assembling the various chronological data given in the Bible itself. Interpretive issues have given rise to relatively minor variations in traditional biblical chronologies, depending on the scholar. The traditional chronology displayed in the time chart at left is typical.
The key biblical chronological link used to determine the date of the Exodus is a number in 1 Kings 6:1. This verse reads, "And it came to pass in the four hundred and eightieth year after the children of Israel were come out of the land of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon's reign over Israel...". Solomon's reign is usually calculated to have begun around 970 B.C., thus placing the Exodus around 1450 B.C. As stated above, the archaeology of Egypt and Canaan at this time is incompatible with the biblical record. In addition, the Bible lists consecutive events between the Exodus and Solomon's reign which total at least 600 years.
In 1990, Dr. Aardsma proposed a major adjustment to traditional biblical chronology. He proposed that the "480" of 1 Kings 6:1 was originally "1,480" but the Hebrew letters corresponding to the "one thousand" were lost at an early stage of copying.
This proposal is applied in the second time chart at left. The new biblical date for the Exodus becomes ca. 2450 B.C., and prior biblical events are similarly shifted to earlier times, by exactly 1000 years relative to traditional biblical chronology.
This change is radical, and at first unimaginable. However, as one begins to examine the archaeology at the new dates, the harmony between biblical and secular accounts is overwhelming. Egypt is struck by national disaster, effectively causing the collapse of the Old Kingdom at the end of the sixth dynasty. The trail of the Israelites in the desert at the time of the Exodus, and remains of their encampment dating to exactly this time period have been found. Both Jericho and Ai were destroyed ca. 2400 B.C., with destruction layers accurately fitting the biblical descriptions. The evidence that Dr. Aardsma's proposal is correct has become overwhelming and continues to mount.
This discovery and the ensuing research have resolved the conflicts between biblical and secular histories prior to the United Kingdom period. Dr. Aardsma's research has also led to many exciting discoveries surrounding early biblical events such as Noah's Flood. Conservative, Bible-believing scholarship today has an answer for those who claim that the Old Testament stories are mere fabrications. This discovery is of extreme significance to anyone who believes the Bible or studies biblical archaeology.
The foregoing article was abstracted from the book A New Approach to the Chronology of Biblical History from Abraham to Samuel. Full details and references can be found there.
 
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