The Evolution of Consciousness

Warden_of_the_Storm

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According to the ToE, we should NOT wear any clothes. No evolutionist can explain why do we wear clothes. All the reasons you gave attract a fundamentally unanswered question: WHY. But MY God gives a perfect final answer. Based on the fact, His word is perfectly verified.

You really should get the money your paid to become a 'teacher' back. Because you REALLY cannot be this ignorant!
 
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The IbanezerScrooge

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joshua 1 9

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According to the ToE, we should NOT wear any clothes.
Some of the oldest, most ancient artifacts are bone sewing needles, bone fishing hooks, and fishing nets. We find these around 40,000 years ago and this is when man was able to come up out of Africa into the Fertile crescent that Neanderthal man was living in at the time. As you go north the weather is colder and man needed clothing to handle the colder weather. Although clothing itself does not survive very long. Maybe we can find a bit of clothing or shoes going back 20,000 years.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Because making and wearing clothes is a unnecessary burden to the survival.

Is it?

I challenge you to survive the winter in let's say.... the Alps, without central heat while naked.
 
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DogmaHunter

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No need to struggle. Simply move toward south. That is all animals do. Did you say we are just another animals?

"All animals", ha?

Strange. I don't remember millions of rabbits going south en mass before the winter.
 
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PsychoSarah

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No need to struggle. Simply move toward south. That is all animals do. Did you say we are just another animals?
Lol, even the ones that live at the equator or the Southern hemisphere? You are assuming that all organisms are reasonably capable of such a migration, and they aren't. Fish in a small lake aren't going anywhere, so either their eggs last through the winter and they don't, or they adapt to the colder water one way or another.

Biologically, no reason to wear clothes.
-_- it's a survival strategy, like chimps using sticks to remove bugs rather than just giving up because their fingers don't fit in the holes. There are biological bases as to why such behaviors are supported via brain structure and how it is influenced by genes.
 
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juvenissun

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-_- it's a survival strategy, like chimps using sticks to remove drugs rather than just giving up because their fingers don't fit in the holes. There are biological bases as to why such behaviors are supported via brain structure and how it is influenced by genes.

According to ToE, we have billions of years of evolution history. It is an absolutely unanswerable question why would human be the only one to develop such a wield method of survival. Other animals have their ways to stay in cold climate. Human CAN migrate instead of "invent" "anti-evolutional" object such as clothes.

Besides, this also brings up another absolutely unanswerable question: why did human lose his fur.
 
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PsychoSarah

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According to ToE, we have billions of years of evolution history. It is an absolutely unanswerable question why would human be the only one to develop such a wield method of survival. Other animals have their ways to stay in cold climate. Human CAN migrate instead of "invent" "anti-evolutional" object such as clothes.
Darn my poor typing, I meant "bugs", not "drugs". Fixed my original post, but still, I hate it when I do stuff like that.

In short summary, we WEREN'T the only one to develop these strategies. While it is a topic of debate whether or not Neanderthals wore clothes, they did make tools, use fire, etc. The other organisms that utilized these strategies that lived at the same time as ourselves died out, potentially from having to compete with us for resources. No two organisms can share the same niche in the same ecosystem and survive long term, which is part of why invasive species are a huge threat to native ones. The native predators aren't usually as adept at killing the invasive animal species, there might not be herbivores suited to consuming the invasive plant species, etc., so invasive species have a huge survival advantage over native species and out-compete them for that niche.

Of course, the invasive species didn't have to share its niche in its native ecosystem either. Humans started out in Africa, where we outcompeted any similar species that was there, and as we spread around the world, the same happened over and over again.

You are neglecting simple population dynamics in considering the invention of clothes. Humans moved to areas that demanded clothing in search for food and other resources because the population became too large for the native areas to support them. Migrating away from the cold would have been more detrimental than adapting behaviors to live in the new areas.

Besides, this also brings up another absolutely unanswerable question: why did human lose his fur.
-_- you say that as if there are no advantages to not having fur. The prevailing theory, if I recall correctly, is that it reduces how well certain parasites can latch onto our bodies. To be fair, I've never heard of any human having lice all over their entire body, but a cat certainly can have that problem. It's also a lot easier to see and remove ticks, etc., without all that hair in the way.

Could also have been a matter of sexual selection, which is the reason why humans have such disproportionately large penises and breasts compared to other apes. Or did you forget that otherwise useless or even detrimental traits can be selected for if they grant a reproduction advantage in attracting mates?
 
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juvenissun

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In short summary, we WEREN'T the only one to develop these strategies. While it is a topic of debate whether or not Neanderthals wore clothes, they did make tools, use fire, etc.

...

-_- you say that as if there are no advantages to not having fur.

Neanderthals, if what you said is true, ARE humans. No argument about that. This illustrates how superb the criterion of wearing clothes is.

Many other animals, particularly all apes, have furs, in arctics or in tropics. Why are humans exceptional?
 
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OldWiseGuy

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I will be waiting with bated breath to see if you say 'Goddidit' in relation to the invention of the loincloth.

Many men need to support their testicles from their own weight which can cause pain in the lower groin. I suffered from this in my early developmental years while wearing boxer shorts. When I changed to the more supportive briefs I no longer had that problem. Also if your 'junk' is 'secured' in place it's less prone to injury for any source. Then there's the modesty element, which God did provide for early on in the garden.
 
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AnotherAtheist

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Many men need to support their testicles from their own weight which can cause pain in the lower groin. I suffered from this in my early developmental years while wearing boxer shorts. When I changed to the more supportive briefs I no longer had that problem. Also if your 'junk' is 'secured' in place it's less prone to injury for any source. Then there's the modesty element, which God did provide for early on in the garden.

Can you not see how, here, you go from something that is verifiable fact (the non-bolded bit) including evidence for the worth of loincloths, and then drop in a claim of the supernatural with no supporting evidence at all?
 
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PsychoSarah

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Neanderthals, if what you said is true, ARE humans. No argument about that.
Only in the sense that "human" can be a general term for all members of the genus Homo. Since we have sequenced Neanderthal DNA and, despite evidence for past hybridization, no modern Homo sapien contains any Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA, it is rather clear that they were NOT the same species. The lack of mitochondrial DNA despite presence of nuclear DNA means that either female Neanderthals and males of our species couldn't reproduce with each other, or that female children of the cross were infertile.

This illustrates how superb the criterion of wearing clothes is.
Not in the slightest; a learned behavior should never be a criterion for taxonomy. -_- otherwise you'd have nonsense like placing people that stand while wiping their butts as a different species than people that sit and wipe. And their are regional behavioral differences in animals aside from humans too, so the problem would be pervasive. Wearing clothes is not an inherent behavior in humans any more than driving cars is.

Many other animals, particularly all apes, have furs, in arctics or in tropics. Why are humans exceptional?
Humans aren't exceptional. Plenty of other members of the genus Homo that have since died out didn't have fur either... actually, I can't find any members of that genus that did have thick fur all over their bodies. Plus, there are other mammals in multiple different environments that also don't have thick fur, such as whales, dolphins, elephants, naked mole rats, walruses, hippos, I could go on.
 
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TLK Valentine

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Some folks on CF, pretend to be someone they are not.

Just saying.

Those of us who truly are (in this case, teachers) have learned to live with it.
 
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juvenissun

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Only in the sense that "human" can be a general term for all members of the genus Homo. Since we have sequenced Neanderthal DNA and, despite evidence for past hybridization, no modern Homo sapien contains any Neanderthal mitochondrial DNA, it is rather clear that they were NOT the same species. The lack of mitochondrial DNA despite presence of nuclear DNA means that either female Neanderthals and males of our species couldn't reproduce with each other, or that female children of the cross were infertile.


Not in the slightest; a learned behavior should never be a criterion for taxonomy. -_- otherwise you'd have nonsense like placing people that stand while wiping their butts as a different species than people that sit and wipe. And their are regional behavioral differences in animals aside from humans too, so the problem would be pervasive. Wearing clothes is not an inherent behavior in humans any more than driving cars is.


Humans aren't exceptional. Plenty of other members of the genus Homo that have since died out didn't have fur either... actually, I can't find any members of that genus that did have thick fur all over their bodies. Plus, there are other mammals in multiple different environments that also don't have thick fur, such as whales, dolphins, elephants, naked mole rats, walruses, hippos, I could go on.

If Neanderthals wore clothes, they ARE human. DNA does not matter. Taxonomy is not good enough. Both can NOT explain the behavior, which is a symptom of a far more important criterion.

Evolutionists said, human evolved from ape. If so, why do we lose our fur/hair?
 
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TLK Valentine

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If Neanderthals wore clothes, they ARE human. DNA does not matter. Taxonomy is not good enough. Both can NOT explain the behavior.

Evolutionists said, human evolved from ape. If so, why do we lose our fur/hair?

Let's break this down:

  1. Clothing is not what defines humans as humans.
  2. DNA matters quite a bit.
  3. Taxonomy is fine.
  4. Behavior can be explained by intelligence.
  5. Humans didn't evolve from apes -- we are a kind of ape. Just like people from South Dakota are a kind of American.
  6. As for losing our hair, ask this guy:

77212f18-dbeb-441a-bebc-57ecbc779026.jpg


In summary, it's not often this meme gets used literally:

 
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Aman777

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We can go anywhere you want. Does anyone have anything at all to explain to us how consciousness evolved? Or how the collective consciousness evolves?

Intelligence doesn't evolve but MUST be inherited from another who has it. Only God and Humans (descendants of Adam) have the superior intelligence necessary to also have consciousness. Gen 3:22 Innocent animals don't have the ability to know both good and evil but are as pre-programmed creatures. The reason is that Humans are destined to have dominion or rule over all other living creatures. Gen 1:28
 
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