The Enemy Within: Confusion on college campuses

[British One]

Shout2thelord I can only echo the points made by CJ. I understand you've had a tough time - and still have a lot of your plate.

But pray about the CU, and see if God wants you to get involved. If he does you will get so much out of it, even if you don't have much input. If you're confident in your bible knowledge (even the simple stuff) then get them Christian's told!! Every CU should be a friendly, welcoming place - and not somewhere to fear. They are clearly doing something wrong.

I hope you find some good Christian friends who you hang out with at uni, and share bible knowledge with.

God bless,

Jon.

 

[shout2thelord]

I think if i had more time i would but im heavily involved with church and you can see where the rest of my time is taken up im so tired and i just cant take anything else on. But i can pray and hopefully God will bring in the first years next year to change it.

 

[Steve_SandbachBaptist_UK]

Unless you are a Christian student, living on a university campus, you will be unaware of the current fiasco that Christian students face at this moment in time, and have been facing for the past 7-8 years.

For over 125 years, Christian Union's around the UK have been the main source of support for Christians away from home, and the only organisation that fulfils the need for evangelism to UK students. Supported by UCCF (Universities and Colleges Christian Fellowship) the CU has impacted on many many lives, and helped produce generations of church leaders.

In 1996, a new organisation was set up with the name 'Fusion'. With the support of Christian leaders like Phil Wall (Salvation Army); Rev Joel Edwards (Evangelical Alliance); Steve Chalke (Oasis); Clive Calver (World Relief); J. John (Philo Trust); Mike Pilavachi (Soul Survivor) and John Burns (Youth for Christ) - it looked like a fantastic opportunity for finally the CU to be supported by a well financed national organisation.

According to their website*, Fusion would come to a university campus 'if invited'. They would 'serve 'CU's, Chaplaincies and local Churches' and 'provide Cell Group material, training and a mechanism to channel the investment of local Christian leaders into the students through our Associate network.' They also said; 'Fusion is not a new 'Christian Institution. We do not have a large staff or set ourselves up in isolation. Our aim is to provide cutting edge resources and a model of operation to; 1) strengthen the effort of those already working with students, 2) to act as a catalyst so that more is done to encourage and disciple students.'

Quite clearly Fusion attempted to revive college and university campuses up and down the country, filling students with the knowledge of God and what he did for them. But unfortunately for many Christian Union's they didn't find the support they desperately needed - they found competition.

In this article, I can only talk from the experience of the higher education college I attend in the North West, and the comments I have received from other CU's around the country. I can't name my college because I want to protect certain individuals privacy but I can assure you that the following words are true, and have not been embellished or exaggerated.

When Fusion first came to my university it was a shock to start with because it was a former CU Exec member who started the group. With support from the local Community church the Fusion leader set up some small groups, and attracted a small number of Christians to these. Some communication with the CU was maintained but most of Fusion's meetings and events were advertised and planned without the knowledge of the CU. Instead of being on campus to 'strengthen the effort of those already working with students' they actually created competition, and created confusion among non-christians.

I don't want to talk about Fusion's theology in this article, as it was covered in detail by an article written in Evangelical Now (March 2003) by Rupert Evans former President of CICCU (Cambridge Inter-Collegiate Christian Union).** But I do want to cover the difficulties and problems Fusion has caused at my college since it arrived last year. I also want to bring attention to some of the practices that Fusion enforces in its cell group meetings, and question whether Fusion is competent in its approach to Christian support on campus.

Points of conflict and concern:

- Fusion meetings are single sex. Men and women are split up into separate cells. If Fusion were left as the only Christian campus organisation, guys and girls would never meet to worship God together. The CU meets for a worship meeting once a week, with everyone together – men and women can learn from each other and pray for each other.

- The Fusion men’s meeting was moved to a Monday night, the same night that the Christian Union meets and has met for many years - bringing obvious conflict.

- The men who go to both the CU and Fusion were told by Fusion to make a choice between the organisations. Fusion wanted total commitment. The CU has always been happy for members to attend both meetings.

- One member of the CU Exec was asked by a Fusion leader to leave the CU and join Fusion. Of course he declined. This one act alone shows that Fusion is not here to support the CU, but is in direct competition with the CU.

- One member of Fusion was asked at a meeting to pray out loud. He told the leader that he would prefer to pray in quiet because he wasn’t very confident. The leader told him that he would "let him off this time" but next time he would expect it to be different.

- Fusion has continually pushed for its members to attend Frontline church in Liverpool (the Fusion church headquarters of the North West). This is a charismatic church and many Christians attending my college are not charismatic. The CU is open to all denominations and does not put one church denomination over others – we help all members choose which local church they want to go to.

- The Fusion group is not run by students. It is not a democracy and its members do not get a say in the way it is run. The CU involves all students in both leadership and planning. Young people are trained in leadership skills to lead CU’s – thus creating the future church leaders. Because Fusion is led by outside individuals it is open to both unbiblical teaching; and a taught doctrine which could lead a student into thinking that this one taught doctrine is the only one that should be thought of as correct. The CU remains independent of contraversial topics like spiritual gifts, women preachers etc and encourages its members to read the bible for themselves, whilst thinking and interpreting the text under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

There is nothing I want more, than for students on college campuses to realise the everlasting love that God has for them, and the fantastic changes that Jesus Christ brings to an individuals life. As far as I'm concerned living for Christ is the best way to live, and the only way to gain eternal life. So it saddens me a great deal when the gospel message is confused for non-christians attending higher education.

One non-christian at my college actually asked me why their were 2 Christian societies on campus. I struggled to find an answer to her question because in all honesty, I don't know why Fusion did show up.

I pray that the situation on campuses around the UK will change and that for the moment these two organisations will find a way to work together, and support each other. If this doesn't happen immediately then the work of both organisations will fail in their aims, because they will be too busy fighting with each other. I'm told by many people that unity is the answer to solving the Fusion problem. I believe they are correct, but I feel that sometimes unity is only achieved after a period of disunity - a time when both organisations can speak freely (without fear of offending the opposite side) about how they feel, and what they think is best for the future of Christian students around the UK.

In my mind the future can only be secured with the removal of Fusion from university campuses.

I am sorry guys to bring up an old thread but this has really angered me because I am a member of Edge Hill fusion and I know the guy who wrote this. This thread was written before I had joined - or heard of - this forum. The OP was back in Feb. What Jon gives is a very biased account of the relations between the CU and Fusion at Edge Hill College. Taking his points one by one:

1. Fusion had dual sex meetings until christmas. We still had/have socials together on Thursdays, a cafe thing on Tuesdays and we go to church together on Sunday nights.

2. The men's meeting was moved to a Monday to coincide with fitness training at Edge Hill, which was on a Monday night. The 2 lads who attended regularly agreed to do this.

3. I was not told by anyone to make a decision, Jon. You conveniently forget I attended CU 2 or 3 times before Christmas last year.

4. This was because he had showed an interest (Mark had). I don't believe Mark was in the CU exec. You may be referring to Tom ?

5. I was that guy and I was not happy about that, but that was between me and Neil, not for you to write about on a public forum.

6. They do encourage us to go but some Fusion members do not go and some attend Ormskirk community church and other churches. Those that go, generally wish to and enjoy it. Though the leaders can be pushy, sometimes a push is what we need! I can assure I am not easily pushed around either.

7. The Fusion group is a democracy up to a point as parts of each meeting are allocated to the students. Neil has also said he wants us lads to take more responsibility for the meetings & socials next year.

8. Did I mention that some of the following facts were obtained by the CU sending a certain member to 'spy' on the Fusion meetings ?!

Incidentally, I spoke to Tom just before the end of the year and he said that he wanted the rivalry to end and that the CU would support Fusion with what we are doing provided we support them in return.

What are your views guys?

Steve.

 

[Kilted Stranger]

i would say that this is something between you guys and that doesnt really affect any other SU groups. I also think that you guys need to stop whining about each other and open your Bibles, bit about fogiving and being in fellowship with other christians.

then again thats only what i think... but how are you guys meant to be showing a loving Christian attatude when your competing against each other?

 

[Steve_SandbachBaptist_UK]

We were NEVER competing against the CU, they were competing against us. The only reason any competition started was because of the attitudes of the CU leadership, such as "British One". I don't mind the CU and I know that the majority of Fusion does not have anything against the CU - some even attend their meetings/socials - and the CU exec have agreed to be co-operative with fusion. Most of the problems have stemmed from things that happened at the original posters brother's university - not at Edge Hill. I say this because I met 2 CU people in my first week and there was a definite anti-Fusion feeling even then.

As for Fusion not being democratic, you take part more in Fusion (at Edge Hill, this may not be a general picture) than CU, at least from what I have seen.

P.S. I always got on with Jon personally and I think differences could have been ironed out, had the two leaderships sat down and talked about it.

Steve

 

[Shetlander]

FUSION? I thought that meant bringing 2 together and forming one?

CONFUSION "The act of confusing, a disconcern...."

Have you noticed that DIS words are destructive, counter productive and are the opposite of the nature of Christ.

DISCONCERN v's Jesus' CONCERN
DISAPPOINT v's Jesus' APPOINT(ING) you to do the works prepared for you
DISCOURAGE v's Jesus' call to take COURAGE

Pray for this sitaution, from a sense of unity, not uniformity, for the people involved and against the powers and principalities behind the DISHARMONY.

Grace, Peace and Mercy to all involved.

 

[theFijian]

We were NEVER competing against the CU, they were competing against us. The only reason any competition started was because of the attitudes of the CU leadership, such as "British One". I don't mind the CU and I know that the majority of Fusion does not have anything against the CU - some even attend their meetings/socials - and the CU exec have agreed to be co-operative with fusion. Most of the problems have stemmed from things that happened at the original posters brother's university - not at Edge Hill. I say this because I met 2 CU people in my first week and there was a definite anti-Fusion feeling even then.

As for Fusion not being democratic, you take part more in Fusion (at Edge Hill, this may not be a general picture) than CU, at least from what I have seen.

P.S. I always got on with Jon personally and I think differences could have been ironed out, had the two leaderships sat down and talked about it.

Steve

If Fusion is a fairly new organisation they must have felt that there was something the CU wasn't doing adequately. Can I ask why Fusin was created as an organisation?

peace
Andy

 

[Steve_SandbachBaptist_UK]

If Fusion is a fairly new organisation they must have felt that there was something the CU wasn't doing adequately. Can I ask why Fusin was created as an organisation?

peace
Andy

I don't know all the reasons but I think the main reason was that the people who founded Fusion (at our college) wanted to worship and learn about God in a different way to what they were doing at the CU. The CU is, I assume, adequate for the people who attend it. Some people prefer Fusion, others prefer the CU, and some people regularly attend both meetings.

The Fusion meetings allow people to get involved more, but people are free to attend either or both groups.

Steve

 

[meebs]

1. Fusion had dual sex meetings until christmas. We still had/have socials together on Thursdays, a cafe thing on Tuesdays and we go to church together on Sunday nights.

why? im sorry but seperating the sexes puts me off things like this, im an equal opportunitist and also things can geta bit boring with the views of one particular people there, what next? seperated black/white meetings?

and why are you people so against each other? your giving over complicated answers. i swear if i wasnt a christian now, you would not convince me. (i CAN see the world through a view of an athiest/agnostic - beleive me i used to be one) i became a christian when i previously attended uni, the christian who helped me was a together sort of guy, and i miss that, i went to a great church who welcomed christian student of all views, so i didnt need a cu. get your selves together and reach out to the non christian students. show how united you are in Jesus's name.

i will pray for student christian unions/societies in general

as for the over complication of things, im about to join a uni where a while back i heard that the CU would be banned cos the NUS wanted to allow a non christian to run it. sound like the whole nus is a bit of a mess if you ask me!!

 

[Bonhoffer]

Hi Techie, Any movement that wants single sex cells stinks in my opinion, and could be challenged under the sex descrimination act, couldn't it?

I wouldnt go that far. I think there are times for mixed sex meetings and single sex meetings.
Our CU meetings and Bible study classes are mixed gender and we fully benefit from this. It is important to have fellowship with Christians of the opposite sex. However the Christian men of my college do get together for a mens breakfast/prayer meeting every three weeks and the Christian women do the same.
I thnk people of all beleifs need time to be with their own sex and time to be in mixed groups. But to be seperated based on gender all the time is pretty bad, esp seeing as I have learnt so much from my sisters in Christ. Gender seperation for the CU wouldnt work at our college because we have about 20 women and 4/5 men.
But sometimes men need to be with and pray with men for reasons such as it would be embarrasing to discuss overcoming touching yourself in front of women.

 

[Rooth]

In fact I have no knowledge of this UK thing, but I had to write, as the thread here started with a thing that I have faced in the last years!

My own view is that churches should try to co-operate. Everyone can believe their way but they have to work together. This REQUIRES that all sides learn and discuss what RESPECT is towards another church, belief (or organisation)! If you want to co-operate with church B, you can´t see them as people YOU have to convert into your beliefs!

In my country a new organisation came a few years ago. They were NOT going to compete but co-operate with existing organisation and the local church, according to their website.

The result however was a GREAT LACK of respect, NO CO-OPERATION at all, and instead they tried to "convert" people from existing organisations to become workers for this new movement.
It was argued that the YOUTH themselves should be able to come with ideas etc, but in reality the system has been pushed into a specific direction from "invisible" parts behind the project!
People who´s posts on their web site critisized (in a respectfull way) the behaviour of the new organisation were deleted...
The new organisation went to the newspapers and magazines and told the public about the good co-opreration they had with churches and organisations... 5% of that was true! (as a person involved with youtleaders I asked my them if someone were co-operating with the new movement.. NONE WERE!)

Stay alert, and stay in your church (organisation)! Avoid things that brings bad relationships between churches... and don´t trust what all people say or write on their websites!

 

[Steve_SandbachBaptist_UK]

In my country a new organisation came a few years ago. They were NOT going to compete but co-operate with existing organisation and the local church, according to their website.

The result however was a GREAT LACK of respect, NO CO-OPERATION at all, and instead they tried to "convert" people from existing organisations to become workers for this new movement.

Its funny you should say that because one of the main reasons why Jon (British One) was distrustful of the Fusion organisation, was because of things that happened at his brother's university, which apparently gave him a bad impression of Fusion. This had absolutely nothing to do with our college's group but for some reason he considered that we were a bad thing because of things that had happened at another uni. Although those things may have been twisted by his brother, and a lot of his criticisms of our group are not true.

I have told one of our leaders about his attack on our group. This what they said in their email reply to me:

Hi Steve,

Thanks Steve. This was interesting reading. It's sad that he feels he as to
do this. I don't believe any of the things he's said are true - do you? He
has twisted everything to make his point. Jon drifted away from the CU
during the last academic year. So this isn't a representation of what CU
members think. I am meeting with the CU leaders next week, so I will bring
it up with them then.

If you want to chat anymore about it I would be glad to talk anything
through. Call/email me. Or we can chat when you are back in Ormskirk.

Thanks for your interest in this topic and your words of advice Rooth.

Steve

 

[Haysie]

I hjust want to point out a couple of important points that Jon seems to have missed out, firstly i was the president of the Cu at the time Jon is talking about and the leader of the fusion group on campus is a close friend of mine and the reason that i persevered with the CU when i joined in my second year! I had direct communication with the Fusion leader and delt first hand with the problems that arose! The reason that Fusion was set up within our campus was because the CU was lifeless! we did not have an aim, direction or seemingly a purpose! although we were suprised by the arrival of Fusion i felt that the more christian influence on the campus the better! a lot of what Jon is saying is speculation and i am dissapointed that he posted these things as half of the things he has said is total untruth! i do agree that christian groups should work together on campus for the glory of God! We as a CU were struggling, with arguements within the leadership and devision amongst its members, we were in no fit state to be recieving blessings for God! In a way im glad that fusion offered stability to its memebers and constant sound teaching! because we were in no fit position to offer that!

Sorry if this upsets you Jon
But you cannot stop the work of God no matter if you agree with it or not
He is going to do things u dont like!
Pray about it deal with it and move on!
Pray of revival not devision which is what you are doing by ranting about another christian group!
God Bless
Andy

 

[CJ.23]

Actually it strikes me as a rather feeble fight between an establisged Conservative Evangelical CU and a new Charismatic group, competing for the same space. As I'm a Liberal Christian and more likely to join the SCA if I ever go back to Uni, it's none of my business - but I will note that the UCCF and CU movement has provided a very long and dedicated history of Christian service, and whereas British One provided specific doctrinal issues, or a link to an article regarding these issues, with Fusion, you have merely asserted he does not know what he is talking about and is an unplesant person.

I have no way of judging. I see no reason why both groups should not peacefully coexist on campus.

I have three questions -

1. Is either group funded by or in anyway answerable to a non-student organisation or Church? This may well place you in jeopardy. SU societies should be by students for students; no external funing or organisation should be involved unless their sponsorship is declared, and the rules of the student group are clearly with NUS requirements according to constitution... hence question 2...

2. Does each group have a democratic structure? Are the groups willing to subscribe to NUS guidelines on non-homophobia, equal access etc, etc.

3. What are the major doctrinal beliefs of each group? Are they non-denominational, as seems to be the theory if not the practice of the CU? Could a Catholic, Orthodox or Mennonite student participate? And if my theological positionis within mainstream Christianity, defined here as the Apostles Creed, yet I for example do not believe in the Rapture, deny the reality of Spiritual Gifts in the present age, and advocate a firm belief that salvation is possible to Jews, Muslims and others who know Christ through their knowledge of Giod, even if they do not recognise him, would i be welcomed to your meetings?

This is an important point. There are fairly strict rules about proselytising at most universities, for the protection of vulnerable students from cultic groups.

cj x

 

[J_K_DART]

Firstly, this is Tom.

After a lot of thoughts and prayers, all I will do is post a few simple comments:

Lead us Lord (Dream Again) by Brian Doerksen

Here we stand

At a crossroads again

Like you said

In time the seasons change

Looking back

We recall the blessing and the pain

But now we turn our hearts toward

What is still to come

We want to dream again
.

Lead us Lord

Into a life of fruitfulness

Prepare our hearts to risk again

As we trust

Taking simple steps of obedience we know

That you will lead us Lord

We stand at a crossroads, and we choose: Will we let the problems of yesterday limit our cooperation today? Will yesterday's problems prevent tomorrow's successes? Will we live in the hurts of the past? Or will we move on and build a new, better, situation to replace the chaos we had?

As for me, it's why I'm here. I'm saddened that this thread has appeared out of the neither (a sobering lesson about the power of the Internet, really - your words can come back to haunt you!), and am genuinely upset to see it. The communication problems that destroyed last year's Exec existed between the groups also, which I already knew anyway. I'd half-thought, until now, that those errors were one-way, but now I can clearly see that both sides were misled by the other, and that faults truly did lie on both sides. For my own involvement in this, I repent, and will do everything I can to not repeat those mistakes. Steve, only two things I will say explicitly on this thread (all the rest I will discuss when I meet with Julia tomorrow); firstly, nothing in what Jon says, I know, is related to you. Secondly, if either myself or Mark were perceived as 'spies', it proves just how badly our groups miscommunicated.

I remind everyone that this is an old thread, and it is very much a product of a specific point in time. In other words, it is a 'snapshot' - we cannot, should not, believe that, after this thread, opinions, attitudes, and circumstances, have not changed. Thank God, I believe they have changed for the better.

I pray that we will all have the maturity to put yesterday's failures behind us; otherwise the tomorrows we shall build shall not bring glory to God.

God bless all,

Tom

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[Steve_SandbachBaptist_UK]

Secondly, if either myself or Mark were perceived as 'spies', it proves just how badly our groups miscommunicated.

Fair enough, I apologise for this accusation but it was more aimed at Jon rather than you. To be fair I was given this impression by Neal so I guess I have just accepted what he said rather than questioned it.

I remind everyone that this is an old thread, and it is very much a product of a specific point in time. In other words, it is a 'snapshot' - we cannot, should not, believe that, after this thread, opinions, attitudes, and circumstances, have not changed. Thank God, I believe they have changed for the better.

That's a good point; I think the problems are old problems that seem to have been sorted out. I think the fault lies on both sides but a large part of it is miscommunication. Anyway there is no reason why the 2 groups can't co exist and work with each other for the benefit of students at our college.

Steve

Edit: By the way Tom, why that choice of name, and are you planning to post again? On the whole I would recommned this site.

 

[J_K_DART]

Agreed, Steve, I've talked to Julia today and miscommunication was the biggest issue, I think (largely on our part). I think, thank God, we've gotten past it; I went through a lot of what it says on this thread with her just in case, and we've agreed to put the past behind.

YES!!!!!



To be honest with you, Steve, and to say the same as I said to Julia, I simply don't care about their being two groups and all that; all I'm bothered about is that we get on with the job of building the Kingdom of God in this college and making a difference! Let's do such a good job that God can look at us, smile, and say, "WOW. Look what my ppl have done for me!"



(As you can probably tell, I love these emoticons!)

I must admit, Steve, I've never heard of this site before until Julia and Andy (Haysie) mentioned it, but I might float by a bit more often - oh, and I always go by J_K_DART. You'll find this name on everything from Star Wars forums to Premier to 4church! (When I was younger - really younger! - I wrote a lot of stories, one of the stars of which was Jonathon Kenneth Dart. When I first got the Internet, I used the name lol, and I keep it because it'll save me forgetting what my login name is )

Anyway there is no reason why the 2 groups can't co exist and work with each other for the benefit of students at our college.

AMEN!

(Oh, great, my font's gone blue now!)

 

[J_K_DART]

(Oh, btw Steve, I might need a hand working out what anything here is - how do these 'blessings' work..?)

 

[Steve_SandbachBaptist_UK]

Well u get 1 blessing point per post. You can buy blessings by donating to the site (if you're really desperate for blessings, which I'm not). And people can give you blessings as they wish.

A few weeks ago the site owner deleted all the blessings data, so gave everyone 1000 blessings, which is why I have so many - I should have about 80-odd!

Steve

 

[J_K_DART]

Bother, why couldn't I come here a few weeks ago!