The end times

[Bluelion]

Is any one else of the thought that what is happening in Rev is nuclear wars?

 

[Bluelion]

I guess there wasn't anything to argue sense it was a question lol

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I guess there wasn't anything to argue sense it was a question lol

I was hoping we were all in church and unable to respond (Don't tell anyone, but I think people participate more on the forums during the work week, because they're all goofing off on company time.)

More on topic: I've been bothered recently by the subject of Wormwood. As you might have heard, it's the literal meaning of Chernobyl, the nuclear reactor in Russia that melted down and hurt a bunch of people. In Revelation, it's the star that falls from the sky and poisons the waters. If the star of Revelation is something like Chernobyl falling from the sky (a nuclear missile), then we have a nasty situation, here.

 

[Bluelion]

I was hoping we were all in church and unable to respond (Don't tell anyone, but I think people participate more on the forums during the work week, because they're all goofing off on company time.)

More on topic: I've been bothered recently by the subject of Wormwood. As you might have heard, it's the literal meaning of Chernobyl, the nuclear reactor in Russia that melted down and hurt a bunch of people. In Revelation, it's the star that falls from the sky and poisons the waters. If the star of Revelation is something like Chernobyl falling from the sky (a nuclear missile), then we have a nasty situation, here.

You hit the nail on the head according to Ed Hindson wormwood in Greek literally means bitter. So the water become bitter and that bitterness is from a nuclear missile, that it is actually describing radiation but had no name for it so it was named bitter. The waters become bitter and people die from drinking those waters. Ed says all the start of tribulation is nuclear war and we see famine brought about by nuclear war. It surprised me that many people today think a nuclear war is impossible, but look at the nuke deal with Iran. North Korea has a nuke. these are both unstable countries with unstable leaders. It only takes one nuke to create a chain reaction.

About the post I saw 21 people looked at it but said nothing, but if I post anything that can be argue you better bet not 21 people will go by with out telling me so. Eh, God Loves me, and my family Brothers and Sisters in Christ. that is all that matters in the end isn't it?

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

It surprised me that many people today think a nuclear war is impossible....

I think it's inevitable. A nuke is like a toy in the hands of a despot. It's only by the grace of God that it hasn't happened yet.

As for people arguing with you, well, I've seen people try to argue with you over almost nothing at all. I'm not sure they even care what the subject is.

 

[Bluelion]

I think it's inevitable. A nuke is like a toy in the hands of a despot. It's only by the grace of God that it hasn't happened yet.

As for people arguing with you, well, I've seen people try to argue with you over almost nothing at all. I'm not sure they even care what the subject is.

Again right on point, Hindson say the reason there has not been a nuclear war so far is God has been holding it back, but the end of days is all about God letting go of man's restraints and letting man do what is in his nature destroy himself.

about the arguing I think people have built up frustration and they look for a vent. I have noticed that many do not want to learn as much as be right. If i make a point they move to the next thing they disagree with, with out even so much as agree the point is valid. eh, Man sharpen on man right. I thinks it God's way of blessing me through wrongs, because I know what I believe and why and can defend it. Surprisingly though most people can not defend their beliefs and only believe because their pastor said so.

Thanks for responding though I appreciate it.

 

[JM]

Again, I'm in the minority on this issue. I believe wormwood means bitterness and has nothing to do with a power plant meltdown. It's just a coincidence. I believe the "star" is a reference to a prince/leader, the term star is used this way in Rev. 2.28. (see also Num. 24.17, Isa. 14.12) A "star falling," as I understand it brothers, is the fall of someone important. The fall of this important person impacts the world in a negative way causing bitterness and sorrow.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Again, I'm in the minority on this issue.

And, yet, you have an equally valid point of view. Until the future becomes the past, we need all of the ideas we can get our hands on. Making predictions about the future is the surest way of making a false statement, so I feel the need to hedge my bet and consider a wide range of interpretations.

 

[Bluelion]

Again, I'm in the minority on this issue. I believe wormwood means bitterness and has nothing to do with a power plant meltdown. It's just a coincidence. I believe the "star" is a reference to a prince/leader, the term star is used this way in Rev. 2.28. (see also Num. 24.17, Isa. 14.12) A "star falling," as I understand it brothers, is the fall of someone important. The fall of this important person impacts the world in a negative way causing bitterness and sorrow.

Yours in the Lord,

jm

That does not explain why the waters became bitter and people drank from this waters and died. But I appreciate your input.

 

[JM]

"And the name of the star is called Wormwood:

AND

the third part of the waters became wormwood;"

I will not point out the obvious.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I will not point out the obvious.

A flattering assessment of our mental acuity, but I wonder what that obvious thing was. I'm going to hope Bluelion also finds it obvious and that he's willing to explain it to me.

 

[JM]

I'm not a Futurist and reject any Jesuit scheme to obscure biblical prophecy.

I'll bow out of this discussion.

jm

 

[Bluelion]

A flattering assessment of our mental acuity, but I wonder what that obvious thing was. I'm going to hope Bluelion also finds it obvious and that he's willing to explain it to me.

well that went well Lol the only obvious thing to me is wormwood literally means bitter and it was saying the waters became bitter, which we established, Little perplexed my self as what the point was.

 

[Bluelion]

Now I am just confused he was saying a star could be an important person falling from power, and I said that does not explain the water becoming bitter and people dying from drinking them, and He said the waters become bitter? How does that address my point?

 

[BrokenWarrior]

Just spouting out some random thought here...

Combining both ideas.

What if it means the fall of someone important (like a leader of a nation) leads to a nuclear strike?

Meh, I don't know really though. Ive never been fascinated by the "End-Times" like alot of by Bretheren are.

I tend to focus on how I can live for God here and now and trust His Salvation is good enough for me when those days come.

Is that wrong of me? Should I be more concerned? I'm not sure,but I'll continue in Faith.

Seek Truth,
-Your Brother In Christ

 

[Bluelion]

Just spouting out some random thought here...

Combining both ideas.

What if it means the fall of someone important (like a leader of a nation) leads to a nuclear strike?

Meh, I don't know really though. Ive never been fascinated by the "End-Times" like alot of by Bretheren are.

I tend to focus on how I can live for God here and now and trust His Salvation is good enough for me when those days come.

Is that wrong of me? Should I be more concerned? I'm not sure,but I'll continue in Faith.

Seek Truth,
-Your Brother In Christ

I am not sure if that is what he meant or not.

To answer your question I don't know that it is a matter of right and wrong. I know God says anyone who reads and understands Rev is blessed. Blessed because we know what is coming and will happen. Should you be more concern, well Jesus said we should always be looking to His return. I know that points to living right and for God and being ready to leave, but I think it also means we should know the signs of His return, and what will happen so we do not trip and stumble.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I think I got it. He said he was not a futurist, so I looked up the definition of preterist and got this:

Preterist:
noun
1. a person who maintains that the prophecies in the Apocalypse havealready been fulfilled.
Compare futurist (def 2), presentist.

That led me to futurist, definition 2:

Futurist:
noun
2. Theology. a person who maintains that the prophecies in theApocalypse will be fulfilled in the future.
Compare presentist, preterist.

Hence, it means that he thinks that Wormwood is an important person that has already fallen. His falling caused a third of the world to become bitter (emotionally, I assume?). I guess that was what was supposed to be obvious. Being a Jesuit, I was a little slow in arriving at that conclusion .

Do we have any guesses as to whom JM thinks the star is?

 

[Bluelion]

I think I got it. He said he was not a futurist, so I looked up the definition of preterist and got this:

Preterist:
noun
1. a person who maintains that the prophecies in the Apocalypse havealready been fulfilled.
Compare futurist (def 2), presentist.

That led me to futurist, definition 2:

Futurist:
noun
2. Theology. a person who maintains that the prophecies in theApocalypse will be fulfilled in the future.
Compare presentist, preterist.

Hence, it means that he thinks that Wormwood is an important person that has already fallen. His falling caused a third of the world to become bitter (emotionally, I assume?). I guess that was what was supposed to be obvious. Being a Jesuit, I was a little slow in arriving at that conclusion .

Do we have any guesses as to whom JM thinks the star is?

well that view would be a Amillennialism or similar to it to say we are living in the age of Christ is what they believe. They hold that most of rev has already happen, so what is left is judgement day basically. That the thousands year of Christ reign started with the church, there are a lot of holes in this theory.

I never understood Rev until Hindson explained it, then I was like wow, that is it, it is a nuclear war.

 

[DeaconDean]

Bluelion, my brother,

I have studied some 15 years with my grand-father who was a ruling elder in the Presbyterian church. He was of the opinion the same as you. A nuclear explosion.

However, I have studied some 25 more years on eschatology. There are some passages in eschatology that we just cannot answer.

Two classic examples are the passages in Rev. 6 where the seals are broken.

Specifically, the fourth.

"And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth." -Rev. 6:7-8 (KJV)

Do you realize that taken at face value, when the 4th seal is broken, over the space of perhaps 3 months, at the current worlds population, 1.2 billion people are going to die!

Another:

"And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months." -Rev. 9:7-10 (KJV)

There is no sufficient explanation for this passage.

And then from the OT, we read:

"Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold," -Isa. 30:26 (KJV)

Up until 30 years ago, this passage was not able to be understood:

"And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth." -Zech. 14:12 (KJV)

30 years ago, the Nutron bomb was invented thus enabling this prophesy to be fulfilled.

And, why would God allow a nuclear explosion, when He Himself is going to destroy this world by means of:

"Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?" 2 Pet. 3:12 (KJV)

There is so much we simply do not know...yet!

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Bluelion]

Bluelion, my brother,

I have studied some 15 years with my grand-father who was a ruling elder in the Presbyterian church. He was of the opinion the same as you. A nuclear explosion.

However, I have studied some 25 more years on eschatology. There are some passages in eschatology that we just cannot answer.

Two classic examples are the passages in Rev. 6 where the seals are broken.

Specifically, the fourth.

"And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth." -Rev. 6:7-8 (KJV)

Do you realize that taken at face value, when the 4th seal is broken, over the space of perhaps 3 months, at the current worlds population, 1.2 billion people are going to die!

Another:

"And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men. And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions. And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle. And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months." -Rev. 9:7-10 (KJV)

There is no sufficient explanation for this passage.

And then from the OT, we read:

"Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold," -Isa. 30:26 (KJV)

Up until 30 years ago, this passage was not able to be understood:

"And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth." -Zech. 14:12 (KJV)

30 years ago, the Nutron bomb was invented thus enabling this prophesy to be fulfilled.

And, why would God allow a nuclear explosion, when He Himself is going to destroy this world by means of:

"Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?" 2 Pet. 3:12 (KJV)

There is so much we simply do not know...yet!

God Bless

Till all are one.

Your years of study is impressive.

I do realize people are going to die. I take no comfort in that fact, but if I seem zealous it is because I am looking to seeing the Lord.

Hidnson believes the locust are actually beast from the pit as it says they will come out of the pit. He sees these things as real hybrid demons specifically created for the end times to torment men. As it is said they will sting with there tails and men will which to die but will not, and they are allowed to torment all who have the mark of the beast. So Hindson believes they are demons. I have heard others who believe they are a type of war machine.

Hindson also says what darkens the sun is pollution speed up by a world at war. He also talks about the ozone being burned up as it is written the sun will be given power to burn men.

I think more of revelations is coming to pass and more is understood. The stage is set so to speak we have all the things now which could do what John describes. I think a nuclear war is what world war 3 will be, but people today think it is impossible for there to be a nuclear war, but look at the countries getting nukes these days, now nuke deal with iran, it only takes one to start a nuclear war.