The end of time

[Lepanto]

I won't be surprised if Protestants are expecting the end of times, but even Catholic priests today are doing so. Haven't they read the Bible?

There are 3 criteria for the end of times as taught by the Bible, if any of them is not met, then it can't be near, it's that simple. In fact, the 3 criteria are not met at all, none of them.

The first of the events foreshadowing the end of time is the one to which the Savior refers in Matthew 24:14, when He says, "This good news of the Kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the world as a witness to all the nations. Only after that will the end come."

The second of these signs will be the appearance of the man of sin, the Antichrist (2 Thess 2:2-4).

The third: the conversion of the Jewish people, who will adore the Lord Jesus and recognize Him as the promised Messiah (Rom 11:14-17). Until then, says St. Paul, "Let no man deceive you by any means ... as if the day of the Lord were at hand” (2 Thess 2:2).

 

[Lepanto]

The Gospel is not yet preached to the whole world.
The Antichrist hasn't appeared yet.
The Jewish people haven't convert yet.

There should be an era of peace in which the Jews, Chinese, Indians etc. will build Christian civilizations just like the Europeans did during the Middle Ages.

Some people here said that era of peace (as promised by Our Lady in Fatima) has already happened - 1980 to 2010, just 30 years. What an insult to Our Lady! 30 years ! And it was not entirely peaceful either, with North Korea, Red China and Islam co-existing.

 

[pdudgeon]

I won't be surprised if Protestants are expecting the end of times, but even Catholic priests today are doing so. Haven't they read the Bible?

There are 3 criteria for the end of times as taught by the Bible, if any of them is not met, then it can't be near, it's that simple. In fact, the 3 criteria are not met at all, none of them.

The first of the events foreshadowing the end of time is the one to which the Savior refers in Matthew 24:14, when He says, "This good news of the Kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the world as a witness to all the nations. Only after that will the end come."

The second of these signs will be the appearance of the man of sin, the Antichrist (2 Thess 2:2-4).

The third: the conversion of the Jewish people, who will adore the Lord Jesus and recognize Him as the promised Messiah (Rom 11:14-17). Until then, says St. Paul, "Let no man deceive you by any means ... as if the day of the Lord were at hand” (2 Thess 2:2).

Catholic priests have read the bible. in fact if you've been paying attention, this past week's readings have been taken from the book of Revelation.
and there are many more than 3 criteria which point to the comming end.
But the problem is that Catholics aren't as aquainted with end times as are the Protestants, so they aren't as aware of the signs to look for.

 

[Radrook]

There are as many interpretations it seems as there are denominations. All can't be right.

 

[Dave Watchman]

I was scrolling and saw that list of the newest threads at the bottom of the page. "The end of time" caught my eye as an intriguing title. I didn't know that the Catholic Priests were talking about the end of time.

If it is what it is there's not much that we can do about it. Get ready? How? I don't know. I'm glad that I'm not a priest because I'd hate the responsibility of warning my flock. I wonder if the priests are talking about the end of time because they're working under orders from above. Like, are the Bishops telling them what to do?

The Gospel is not yet preached to the whole world.
The Antichrist hasn't appeared yet.
The Jewish people haven't convert yet.

I think God is going to get these three jobs done fast in a very short amount of time, just before there's time no more. I think that He'll have some Sealed Servants to act as boots on the ground to get the Gospel job done in a year.

But the physical appearance of the Antichrist will probably be a late indicator, likely occurring only 5 months before the Parousia. When the man of sin shows up, he will already have been working his 42 months from behind the scenes giving his power and throne and great authority to the 7 headed sea beast.

"And swore by him that lives for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he has declared to his servants the prophets.​

 

[Dave Watchman]

There are as many interpretations it seems as there are denominations. All can't be right.

Can ALL be wrong?

 

[Radrook]

Can ALL be wrong?

I don't know. Perhaps all might not be precisely what was meant. Perhaps it really doesn't matter because it isn't a salvation issue. Perhaps a general outline was all that was intended and what was and still is considered suffice.

 

[Lepanto]

...there are many more than 3 criteria which point to the comming end.
But the problem is that Catholics aren't as aquainted with end times as are the Protestants, so they aren't as aware of the signs to look for.

Come on, more than 3 criteria met ? Please elaborate.

Have you heard anything about Jewish conversion yet?
What about China? North Korea? Islamic Middle East?
Christianity is still outlawed in the above 3 places !

Moreover, where are their Christian civilizations being built to glorify God as the Europeans did during the Middle Ages ? None.

What about the AntiChrist? Nobody is even close.

 

[Dave Watchman]

I don't know. Perhaps all might not be precisely what was meant. Perhaps it really doesn't matter because it isn't a salvation issue. Perhaps a general outline was all that was intended and what was and still is considered suffice.

A better question might be if we could know, would we WANT to know. It's like if we could know the time when our death would be, not everyone WANTS to know. If we could click a link that would tell us when ALL these things would be, would we ALL want to click it?

Are we supposed to dread the end of time?

Whatever happened to "lift up your heads for your redemption draws near?

Maybe we're supposed to look forward to it.

Anyways, I wanted to know like an Isaac Newton kind of deal so I made it my project.

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.






.​

 

[Radrook]

A better question might be if we could know, would we WANT to know. It's like if we could know the time when our death would be, not everyone WANTS to know. If we could click a link that would tell us when ALL these things would be, would we ALL want to click it?

Are we supposed to dread the end of time?

Whatever happened to "lift up your heads for your redemption draws near?

Maybe we're supposed to look forward to it.

Anyways, I wanted to know like an Isaac Newton kind of deal so I made it my project.

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.






.​

We definitely are provided a general outline which indicates how we should view certain historical events as indicative of Christ's second coming.

For example, nation rising against nation and kingdom against kingdom and a time of trouble as never experienced before in human history has been identified by a certain denomination as referring to WWI followed by WWII.

However, the word they prefer to use isn't "coming" but "presence" instead because, as they say, the word "parouisiä" used in the original Greek means-presence and not coming. So from their standpoint Jesus came into heavenly kingdom power or began to reign in heaven in the midst of his enemies as anointed king at the right-hand of God in 1914 when nation rose against nation in a hitherto never seen world war and has been present in that sense since 1914. Compare that scenario to all the other views.

 

[stephen583]

The premise of this thread is based on some pretty weird assumptions. I'm a non denominational Christian,(not a Protestant) but I will attempt to clarify some of the problems.

First, you are confusing the "End of the World" with the "End Times" in general. These are two distinctly different eschatological events and are not necessarily synonymous with each other.

People have been living in the "Last Days" (The End Times) virtually since the Resurrection of Christ occurred. If you read the writings of the Apostles, this point is pretty much inescapable, as it is mentioned dozens of times in the NT.

The same goes for this issue of the identity of the anti-Christ. The Apostle Paul told the Early Church, "there are many anti-Christ among you even now". Indeed, down through history there have been a whole slew of anti-Christ figures (dictators) evidenced.

The Anti-Christ (End of the World) dictator referred to in Bible Prophecy as the "Abomination of Desolation" who invades Judea in Matthew 24 (has as you point out) not yet been revealed.. and so the End of the World in not yet imminent.

However, that does not naturally follow we are not presently living during the "End Times", only that the "End" has not yet come. So your premise is a bit of a stretch.

The business about the Gospel needing to be preached throughout the whole world is also somewhat unspecific. You tell me what the word "world" meant to ancient people when they wrote it, and I'll tell you whether that prophecy has been fulfilled yet. I know the ancient Greeks and Jews had no concept of the "world" as a planet. Generally, the word merely applied to that part of the earth which was known at the time.

The Jews will not accept Christ as the Son of God until the Second Coming occurs, and then the present world passes away.. Again, the End Times which constitutes a "final" generation (determined by how one defines a generation), and ending in a Seven Year Tribulation Period, incorporates the "End Times".

 

[pdudgeon]

Come on, more than 3 criteria met ? Please elaborate.

Have you heard anything about Jewish conversion yet?
What about China? North Korea? Islamic Middle East?
Christianity is still outlawed in the above 3 places !

Moreover, where are their Christian civilizations being built to glorify God as the Europeans did during the Middle Ages ? None.

What about the AntiChrist? Nobody is even close.

In this age the civilizations (can you say ISIS?) that are being built will be glorifying satan and the anti-Christ---not God. And we're seeing that already, and will be seeing more of it before Christ returns.
So stop and think about it. Wouldn't it be better to keep watch for what is happening around the world than just to say 'no one can know?'

Christ spoke to that as well when he told people that they recognized what weather was comming, but they weren't looking for the signs that would foretell of His comming.
By all acounts the Jewish leaders of His day should have rcognized the prophesies being fulfilled when he was born. Instead they trusted in their own power and abilities to rule the Jewish people.
All they wanted was a Messiah who could free them from they tyrany of Rome. They got a lot more than they bargained for in Jesus.

We had an interesting Gospel reading today about Christ comming like a thief in the night. Now if that doesn't have anything to do with the end times--and people staying alert to watch for the signs--then i don't know what would.

As for Jewish conversions, haven't you been paying attention?
What about the Messianics who are comming to Christianity?
And there are lots of Christians in Jerusalem these days. The Jews returning to their homeland had been foretold in the OT and in 1949 it happened. The Jews returned to Israel.

1. So do the math---2016-1949=67 years.
Remember the words "This generation shall not pass away...."
2. the Door of Mercy Jubilee celebration has just closed around the World.
3. we're also looking for a return of the Jewish sacrifice of attonement in the Holy of Holy's. they already have everything necessary in Jerusalem to perform the sacrifice, including the election of the Sanhedrin.
4. and open persecution of Christians
5. which leads to more martyrs.
6. an increase in the size and frequency of natural disasters world wide.
We've seen that.

Those are the signs you should be looking for.

As for the Anti-Christ, what you have to realize is that he first has to be born, then grow up, then be in the right place at the right time in order to wield the power that will be his for a time. If you've followed world leaders for any time at all you would realize that it takes them 40-60 years minimum to get into that kind of a position. So more likely than not the Anti-Christ is already here on Earth, and is biding his time.

as for China, North Korea, and the Islamic Middle East, there are conversions happening in all three places. Even though it might be outlawed, and the Church has gone underground there, but it still exists.
and it's growing!

I realize that all this above shoots down your premise, but it is what is happening. You need to open your eyes to see what is really happening, and not be lulled into thinking that all this is a long ways away.

 

[pdudgeon]

We definitely are provided a general outline which indicates how we should view certain historical events as indicative of Christ's second coming.

For example, nation rising against nation and kingdom against kingdom and a time of trouble as never experienced before in human history has been identified by a certain denomination as referring to WWI followed by WWII.

However, the word they prefer to use isn't "coming" but "presence" instead because, as they say, the word "parouisiä" used in the original Greek means-presence and not coming. So from their standpoint Jesus came into heavenly kingdom power or began to reign in heaven in the midst of his enemies as anointed king at the right-hand of God in 1914 when nation rose against nation in a hitherto never seen world war and has been present in that sense since 1914. Compare that scenario to all the other views.

and they're wrong. they confused the Jews returning to their homeland in 1949 with Jesus' return. Jesus has yet to return.

 

[Lepanto]

As for Jewish conversions, haven't you been paying attention?
What about the Messianics who are comming to Christianity?
And there are lots of Christians in Jerusalem these days. The Jews returning to their homeland had been foretold in the OT and in 1949 it happened. The Jews returned to Israel.

Come on, I am afraid this cannot be counted as Jewish conversion. Jewish conversion must be literally a big (if not total) conversion of the Jewish nation.
With your logic, you can also say:

• North Korea has converted (there are a few hundred or thousand of Christians there - perhaps 1% - big enough)
• Communist China has converted (there are millions of Christians there - perhaps 8% - big enough)
• Peace as promised at Fatima already arrived -- 2% of our days are without wars or crimes - good enough.

Given the present policy of the Church, mass conversion of Jews (and Muslims) will NOT happen, I believe. Just look at Pope Francis, how he deals with Muslims, Hindus, etc.

I believe, if mass conversion of Jews and Muslims does not happen, the end of time will NOT happen. It is still far far away, not as close as you believe.
What we are facing today is not end of time, but the Chastisements as foretold at Fatima, 1917.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

The Gospel is not yet preached to the whole world.

I'd say that it has.

The Antichrist hasn't appeared yet.

I'd say that he is here. The smoke of Satan is here in the world and even in the Church now.

And where there's smoke there's fire.

The Jewish people haven't convert yet.

There hasn't been a mass conversion of Jews yet, but St. John Chrysostom seemed to be of the opinion that the return of Jesus would be the cause of their conversion.

 

[stephen583]

"Verily, verily I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he can not see the kingdom of God" (John 3:3, KJV).

I personally believe this verse is widely misinterpreted by most as referring to the Final Resurrection and the Judgment. IMO, that would be the most "superficial" reading of the text possible. However, as is often the case, the same Scripture can have multiple "hidden" meanings as well.

Suppose for a moment, this verse actually refers to the Kingdom of God that is already present in the world and man's inability to see it. Did Jesus not say "The Kingdom of God is all around you and in your midsts " (Luke 17:21) ? If that were true in the time of Jesus, why isn't it still just as true today ?

No matter what opinion, or evidence you present.. certain people are simply unable to see what you are talking about. You're not going to have any success convincing them the "End of Time" is here. You're making a hopeless argument.

You might as well be running through the dining room of the Titanic after it hit the iceberg, where passengers are listening to the orchestra music and drinking champagne and screaming "The Ship is SINKING" ! They're just going to laugh and ignore you.

IMO. It's time to ignore those people, get a hand axe, start chopping up the piano and stuffing it with life jackets in order to make a raft. You can't save someone who doesn't believe they need saving. It's a waste of time.

 

[LivingWordUnity]

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