The Elect?

[orthedoxy]

Good Day, Othedoxy

Here in lies the problem is that you see Jesus as a saviour who needs some help from people in some kind of response. I see Jesus as a saviour who was sent to save His people that is why he was sent.

I just showed you from the verses Jesus died for every person, yet we both don't believe all will be saved.
I see God not forcing us to love him but he offers us a ring of engagement and says will you accept.
Calvinists view it's a shotgun wedding.

That would all depend on how Jersualem is used, along with who her children are. Your point about the will, whose will Jersualem or her children's?

Was not Peter a child of Jersualem?

I think you are just avoiding the question.
From the verse Jesus wanted to gather someone or some nation but couldn't.
Can you tell me why God couldn't do what he wanted to do?

Do not remember saying other wise.

This falls in the face of irresistable grace.
because in act these people ressisted God the Holy spirit.

Orthedoxy Here is the quetion I do not understand your response above,

Question by BBAS...

Really would like your answer Please.

God loves everyone even the false teachers. He tries to saves them from their physical death that we got from Adam. These people didn't want to accept Gods salvation so they died. They were execute just like the whole unbelieving world would be at the end.
Let me ask you this if God could change their will and he foreordains everything. Why does he make false teachers then kills them?

If you go back and read you will see I have said that the fact that people live.. and breath even tough they are wicked is an act of God's love. For some reason you do not see that or find that unacceptable.

Peace to u,

Bill

please answer this.
When a Christian lies is that an act of God?

I see it if one does not attempt to save all is not loving at all.
When the bible says God so loved the world it's talking in a saving way not because he is allowing them to breath.
Peace

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

The real question here is why do people believe in Him. Is it because of some miraculous signs and wonders? No, the Sanhedrin plotted to kill Jesus for healing on the Sabbath. Just because He loves everyone? No, then everyone would obtain salvation (universalism). The fact of the matter is, there is no human reason why we would desire to approach God.

Titus 3:3
For we ourselves were also once foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another.

Romans 3:11
There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God.

John 4:23
But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.

You see, it's all about God! If we're not looking for Him (you know, He never was lost) then in order for us to be reconciled to Him, He must be seeking us. Those He seeks He finds. Those He chooses to save, He saves. There is nobody who chooses to save themselves because we just don't have the desire in us. Like Adam and Eve, we continually sew up ways to hide our shame, but only God can provide our redemption.

Soli Deo Gloria

 

[cygnusx1]

Calvinists don't view it as a "shot-gun wedding" at all ...........

If you want to see how we view it , read the parable of the wedding (there are two) and notice the word compel ........ yes it is by a strong hand that God leads the Captives free.... just like LOT.
Yet , the truth is that more often than not , God opens the heart to receive the Gospel , then we see (perceive) the wonder , the Love , the Mercy and the Beauty in Christ Jesus .... until then we are blind to his beauty.

 

[BBAS 64]

I just showed you from the verses Jesus died for every person, yet we both don't believe all will be saved.

Good Day, Othedoxy

Sorry Bro I missed them will go bac.

I see God not forcing us to love him but he offers us a ring of engagement and says will you accept.

Do you have Scripture that says this?

Calvinists view it's a shotgun wedding.

I think you are just avoiding the question.
From the verse Jesus wanted to gather someone or some nation but couldn't.
Can you tell me why God couldn't do what he wanted to do?

That is funny did he not say I chose you with reguards to the 12 all of whom were Jews?

I am not avoiding I am seeking to understand, who or what is Jersulam?

This falls in the face of irresistable grace.
because in act these people ressisted God the Holy spirit.

Funny I thought the OP was about election?

God loves everyone even the false teachers. He tries to saves them from their physical death that we got from Adam. These people didn't want to accept Gods salvation so they died. They were execute just like the whole unbelieving world would be at the end.
Let me ask you this if God could change their will and he foreordains everything. Why does he make false teachers then kills them?

Yes he does love every one just not the same we have covered that. He tries and fails . I believe that the elect are not lead astray by the false teachers,

Mat 24:24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

But I do believe they serve a purpose.

please answer this.
When a Christian lies is that an act of God?

No.

I see it if one does not attempt to save all is not loving at all.
When the bible says God so loved the world it's talking in a saving way not because he is allowing them to breath.
Peace

Again you have imposed your view of what "love" is upon God. I could say if you do not love your sister in the say manner and the same way as your mom then you do not love your sister.

Now, that is silly I know, but you have taken a freedom of expression in your love of people in different ways, and denied God the same freedom of expression in his love.

So, if it is not God's love that allows unrepentant men to breath what is it?


One more question, God gives you eyes to "see" and lungs to breath, so does he force you to do so?

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[orthedoxy]

Good Day, Othedoxy

Sorry Bro I missed them will go bac.



Do you have Scripture that says this?

John 1:12
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.

That is funny did he not say I chose you with reguards to the 12 all of whom were Jews?

I am not avoiding I am seeking to understand, who or what is Jersulam?

Jesus wanted to gather the whole nation of Israel but he couldn’t because they were not willing to come to him.
The nation is made up of people and these people didn’t want to come to him. When you say God elect irresistibly and he wanted to gather the whole nation, why didn’t he just do it?

Funny I thought the OP was about election?

It is about election read the context. If they didn’t rejected the Holy Spirit they would’ve been saved.
The point is God try to save but people could resist.

Yes he does love every one just not the same we have covered that. He tries and fails . I believe that the elect are not lead astray by the false teachers,

Mat 24:24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

But I do believe they serve a purpose.

2 pet 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them–bringing swift destruction on themselves.


God loves everyone in the saving way he died even for the false teachers.

No.

Please explain how can you give the credit to God in breathing and not in lying?

Again you have imposed your view of what "love" is upon God. I could say if you do not love your sister in the say manner and the same way as your mom then you do not love your sister.

Now, that is silly I know, but you have taken a freedom of expression in your love of people in different ways, and denied God the same freedom of expression in his love.

So, if it is not God's love that allows unrepentant men to breath what is it?


One more question, God gives you eyes to "see" and lungs to breath, so does he force you to do so?

Again when the bible says God so loved the world it's talking in a saving way, if you don't believe that's talking to everyone then you can't say God loves everyone.

Peace to u,

Bill

It’s not like a different kind of love but between love and hate.

Also freewill is not like eyes or lungs. God gives us eyes to see lungs to breath and freedom of choice to choose.

Peace

 

[tigersnare]

Also freewill is not like eyes or lungs. God gives us eyes to see lungs to breath and freedom of choice to choose.

Peace

We do have the freedom to chose God, we just don't have the ability.


Irrestible grace-It's not that we have to chose God, it's that we will chose God. It is irrestible because it is the greatest of gifts one could ever imagine, not because God takes our hand and forces us to sign up.

*Check my theology here brothers*

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

I'm with you, tigersnare! It is the parable of the treasure in the field. When God opens your eyes to the storehouse of His grace, you can see that what you are moving to is so much more valuable than what you are moving from. Freewill is everpresent. The general call is there for all, but is only responded to by those who God elects. Proper preaching is something that one who has not been regenerated will think foolish, but those called according to His purpose will savor.

Note: I have been of the elect since before the creation of the world, but didn't enjoy reading the Bible or listening to sermons until I was called. That is, I didn't appreciate the rumors I had heard about the treasure in the field until God opened the lid of the treasure box and allowed me to look into it. At that point, I truly began to believe my Bible and the promises of grace for the sins that the same Bible had convicted me of.

I suggest reading "Desiring God" by Piper for a joyous look at election. An edition of the book is available to be read free of charge at his website in PDF format, as are several other books. The conversion chapter will really highlight the joy that we can have in God, by appreciating the gift that only He could offer.

 

[JM]

Luther said something to the effect, 'we shouldn't add wood to fire, but pray.'

 

[rmwilliamsll]

I suggest reading "Desiring God" by Piper for a joyous look at election. An edition of the book is available to be read free of charge at his website in PDF format, as are several other books.

much thanks.
link:
http://desiringgod.org/library/onlinebooks_index.html
excellent resource.

 

[orthedoxy]

I'm with you, tigersnare! It is the parable of the treasure in the field. When God opens your eyes to the storehouse of His grace, you can see that what you are moving to is so much more valuable than what you are moving from. Freewill is everpresent. The general call is there for all, but is only responded to by those who God elects. Proper preaching is something that one who has not been regenerated will think foolish, but those called according to His purpose will savor.

Note: I have been of the elect since before the creation of the world, but didn't enjoy reading the Bible or listening to sermons until I was called. That is, I didn't appreciate the rumors I had heard about the treasure in the field until God opened the lid of the treasure box and allowed me to look into it. At that point, I truly began to believe my Bible and the promises of grace for the sins that the same Bible had convicted me of.

I suggest reading "Desiring God" by Piper for a joyous look at election. An edition of the book is available to be read free of charge at his website in PDF format, as are several other books. The conversion chapter will really highlight the joy that we can have in God, by appreciating the gift that only He could offer.

We can say a robot has a choice is he free? If he is not free then does he really have a choice?
Many people reject Gods love and his gift, some believe for a little while. Many are invited into the kingdom but don’t want to come. Some come into the kingdom but are rejected at the end.
I do believe one can’t come on his own, one has to be invited or one has to be reached out by hearing the gospel then they could be saved.
One could be reached with the gospel but reject God (resistible grace).
Just because one is called it doesn’t mean he is chosen.

I would ask this one question why can’t a robot show love?
How are we different then a robot?

 

[BBAS 64]

John 1:12
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.

Good day, Othedoxy

I say Amen to the passage in Jn 1,

Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was created through Him, yet the world did not recognize Him. He came to His own, and His own people did not receive Him. But to all who did receive Him, He gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God.

so, then those who believe in His name, do so my the will of God.

Jesus wanted to gather the whole nation of Israel but he couldn’t because they were not willing to come to him.
The nation is made up of people and these people didn’t want to come to him. When you say God elect irresistibly and he wanted to gather the whole nation, why didn’t he just do it?

It is about election read the context. If they didn’t rejected the Holy Spirit they would’ve been saved.
The point is God try to save but people could resist.

Go back and read the passage in Matt. he gathered the children.

2 pet 2:1
But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them–bringing swift destruction on themselves.


God loves everyone in the saving way he died even for the false teachers.

Recommend reading:

http://aomin.org/2PE21.html

Please explain how can you give the credit to God in breathing and not in lying?



It’s not like a different kind of love but between love and hate.

Also freewill is not like eyes or lungs. God gives us eyes to see lungs to breath and freedom of choice to choose.

Peace

Because lying is a sin and the Scriptures teach that in him we have our abilty to "have our being" as does all the created people it is given to all in love.

You love your Mom differnet than your sister, so you hate one of them?

The question is God gives you lungs to breath, does he then force you to do so? Can you exersize your wonderful free-will and chose not to do so?

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[orthedoxy]

Good day, Othedoxy

I say Amen to the passage in Jn 1,

Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was created through Him, yet the world did not recognize Him. He came to His own, and His own people did not receive Him. But to all who did receive Him, He gave them the right to be children of God, to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood, or of the will of the flesh, or of the will of man, but of God.

so, then those who believe in His name, do so my the will of God.

This verse is saying those who receive him God rebirth them. It’s not the human decision that rebirths but Gods action. His action depends on mans decision according to that.
That’s more like a proposal you receive him he makes you his son. Us becoming his sons is not our doing but his.

Go back and read the passage in Matt. he gathered the children.

Ok why couldn’t Jesus gather the children? Why couldn’t he change the will of the Jews?

Recommend reading:

http://aomin.org/2PE21.html

I read that and it seems the writer is confusing things.
The verse clearly teaches Jesus bought these unbelievers.
The bible also says Jesus saved us 2tim 1:9 but the bible says in act 2:38 when a person asks what must I do to be saved which clearly shows that person is not saved, And after that they were saved.
Salvation is spoken in the past present and future. It also says Jesus died for us(redeemed us) and yet it says we will be saved.
Can you in your own words say why isn’t 2pet2:1 saying Jesus bought those that deny Jesus?

Because lying is a sin and the Scriptures teach that in him we have our abilty to "have our being" as does all the created people it is given to all in love.

You love your Mom differnet than your sister, so you hate one of them?

The question is God gives you lungs to breath, does he then force you to do so? Can you exersize your wonderful free-will and chose not to do so?

Peace to u,

Bill

I’ve told you that you are using the wrong comparison. It’s not like love between mother and sister it’s more like Sadam Husien loving his mother and torturing a person and says I loved that person because I gave him food for a few days before I tortured him.

Free-will is not like lungs. Something can’t be free if you can’t do otherwise.
Also if a believer can resist God and lie why can’t a person resist God in a salvation matter?
Is it God that sends you to preach to others? If so then why not everyone that you preach to receive your message?
Peace