The Drake equation... More than likely a race that is beyond this dimension we know...

[Aryeh]

Trees? bacteria?

I would personally say that all life has it, but to calibrate these things to humans is where problems begin.

Trees may not behave like cartoons, but we know they communicate chemically, for example. We cant dismiss or discount the possibility of "lower order creation" having complex emotions ad sensations.

Otherwise, we would be hypocrites of mythos: the gods believe we too primate to understand complexities of life - even to understand pain, or to exist. That is because they are calibrating their measurements with "deity" as the standard. Yet the romanticism of the human spirit sets out to prove that wrong when confronted with the notion of inferiority.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

But all life, including "God" or "gods" does have a mind, heart, possibly will, and emotions, in that way we can relate to all lifeforms no matter how big or small, and they can relate to us, hence the connection...

All life forms that we know about with a mind, will, emotions, etc... all are made up of matter and are subject to the laws and processes of biology, chemistry and physics.
A heart actually literally, is a blood pump.

Minds, wills and emotions are, or at least seem to be, a product of physical brains.

There is no reason to think otherwise.

Having said that, as Armoured pointed out, I don't think that plants and stuff have emotions and such.

 

[Neogaia777]

I am not so sure I would necessarily agree.

Even culturally, both the gods and angels are at best ambivalent to human emotion. Often times, they find them degenerate reasoning parameters. Sometimes, even, they are shown to be completely ignorant of certain fundamental human emotions - like compassion, humor, or heartbreak.

Even sensations are extremely dulled, or nonexistent for the gods and angels. Often, they are depicted as feeling no pain, or on the other side of the spectrum: extremely sensitive, SUPERHUMAN sensations.

Either way, a consensus would say that the mythos of angels and gods are emotionally divergent from humans.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree, cause they do "feel" things, they can be hurt, offended or feel pain, like us, and God is Love and love involves feelings and emotions... They probably exercise a great deal more control over it than us, and is harnessed by their will, but, they do feel as well...

God Bless!

 

[Armoured]

This stuff is philosophy, at best. Not science.

 

[Neogaia777]

All life forms that we know about with a mind, will, emotions, etc... all are made up of matter and are subject to the laws and processes of biology, chemistry and physics.
A heart actually literally, is a blood pump.

Minds, wills and emotions are, or at least seem to be, a product of physical brains.

There is no reason to think otherwise.

Having said that, as Armoured pointed out, I don't think that plants and stuff have emotions and such.

That "we know of" being the key... (As if we know everything...)

The heart is shown out to communicate not only chemically, but electrically to the brain, it is almost like a second brain in a way...

Electrical signals would remain still if a species were to go beyond the Physical and maintain their consciousness or who they are...

God Bless!

 

[Aryeh]

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree, cause they do "feel" things, they can be hurt, offended or feel pain, like us, and God is Love and love involves feelings and emotions... They probably exercise a great deal more control over it than us, and is harnessed by their will, but, they do feel as well...

God Bless!

, we agree. You rephrased by saying consciousness but I get your point now.


What I still say in regard to that, and the original reply, was that standardization of these "attributes" only work in "one-to-one" systems.

If we try to understand lower, or higher "order" creation with the standard of humans, then we fail. Hence: anthropomorphism. Also, I think the folly of angels (like the folly of men) is their analysis of lower order creation with themselves as standards. In myth, this makes them seem distant and heartless (especially when we try to understand their complexities with our humanity as a standard.)

This is why we use the "phase operator" of the [holy] spirit to be able to correctly understand complexities over all orders of creation.

 

[mcarmichael]

This is why we use the "phase operator" of the [holy] spirit to be able to correctly understand complexities over all orders of creation.

This is not Orthodoxy.

 

[Neogaia777]

, we agree. You rephrased by saying consciousness but I get your point now.


What I still say in regard to that, and the original reply, was that standardization of these "attributes" only work in "one-to-one" systems.

If we try to understand lower, or higher "order" creation with the standard of humans, then we fail. Hence: anthropomorphism. Also, I think the folly of angels (like the folly of men) is their analysis of lower order creation with themselves as standards. In myth, this makes them seem distant and heartless (especially when we try to understand their complexities with our humanity as a standard.)

This is why we use the "phase operator" of the [holy] spirit to be able to correctly understand complexities over all orders of creation.

"Phase operator" of the (holy) spirit...? (To be able to correctly understand complexities over all orders of creation)...? I'm trying to understand with my limited intellect, but, I am afraid I'm not quite following you and you kind of lost me there...?

Can you explain that a little more or better...?

God Bless!

 

[Radrook]

It doesn't depend on any human-concocted equation based on the abiogenesis billion-happy-infinitely-improbable-accidents idea.

 

[mcarmichael]

"Phase operator" of the (holy) spirit...? (To be able to correctly understand complexities over all orders of creation)...? I'm trying to understand with my limited intellect, but, I am afraid I'm not quite following you and you kind of lost me there...?

Can you explain that a little more or better...?

God Bless!

Why do you want to know? The Holy Spirit is God. Plain English.

 

[Neogaia777]

Why do you want to know? The Holy Spirit is God. Plain English.

Yes, I know that part...?

But how does the H.S. act like a phase operator?, and how does that enable us to be able to "correctly understand complexities over all orders of creation" like you said...?

Forgive me if I'm just not able to be able to follow that line of thought very well...

Can you clarify...?

God Bless!

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That "we know of" being the key... (As if we know everything...)

We can only consider things that we actually know about.
Given everything we know about life, physics, etc... matter and temporal states are a requirement for life to exist.

The heart is shown out to communicate not only chemically, but electrically to the brain, it is almost like a second brain in a way...

No, it's not. It's a muscle. It pumps blood. That's what it does.

Electrical signals would remain still if a species were to go beyond the Physical and maintain their consciousness or who they are...

This is just a wild assertion with exactly zero grounding in reality.

Less then zero, in a way, considering that everything we know about life, suggests the exact opposite of such a claim.

 

[mcarmichael]

Yes, I know that part...?

But how does the H.S. act like a phase operator?, and how does that enable us to be able to "correctly understand complexities over all orders of creation" like you said...?

Forgive me if I'm just not able to be able to follow that line of thought very well...

Can you clarify...?

God Bless!

I didn't say that. Someone else said that.

 

[Neogaia777]

I didn't say that. Someone else said that.

oh, sorry, my mistake...

 

[Neogaia777]

We can only consider things that we actually know about.
Given everything we know about life, physics, etc... matter and temporal states are a requirement for life to exist.



No, it's not. It's a muscle. It pumps blood. That's what it does.



This is just a wild assertion with exactly zero grounding in reality.

Less then zero, in a way, considering that everything we know about life, suggests the exact opposite of such a claim.

OK...? "Whatever", I guess, I'm not going to argue... You can just google it, if you really want to know anything about it, but, I don't think you do...?

God Bless!

 

[mcarmichael]

OK...? "Whatever", I guess, I'm not going to argue... You can just google it, if you really want to know anything about it, but, I don't think you do...?

God Bless!

About extra-terrestrial life?? You can't just "google" that. Not reliably.

 

[Neogaia777]

About extra-terrestrial life?? You can't just "google" that. Not reliably.

How the heart acts like a mind or brain. the definition(s) or requirements/parameters of/by/how we measure, decide or dictate consciousness. ect...

 

[Radrook]

Calling the holy spirit a force as JWs do or anything similar that might seem a demotion from the status of the third person of the Godhead will trigger an immediate response from orthodoxy. That should be considered a given on this website. In fact, I think there is a rule against it and discussion is limited to controversial theology I believe. In short, orthodoxy is very keen on detecting any such possible attempts to sneak one through. LOL

 

[Aryeh]

"Phase operator" of the (holy) spirit...? (To be able to correctly understand complexities over all orders of creation)...? I'm trying to understand with my limited intellect, but, I am afraid I'm not quite following you and you kind of lost me there...?

Can you explain that a little more or better...?

God Bless!

The Holy Spirit acts like a phase operator in math, where you can change a function without actually changing the dimension. An example is angle, or the quantum phase. This allows variation without change in identity.

For us humans, since the Holy Spirit is everything, with unbounded intellect, it can guide us into understanding any order of creation.

For example, a human can come to understand the complexities of a simple blade of grass with the Holy Spirit - without having to actually transform orders of creation "down" to a blade of grass.

Similarly, a human can understand spiritual things with the Holy Spirit without having to transfigure into an entity of light.

The Holy Spirit allows us to correctly and properly "sympathize" with orders of creation different from our own without us having to make the physical transformation into the order of creation. That is what I mean by a phase operator.

 

[Neogaia777]

Calling the holy spirit a force as JWs do or anything similar that might seem to demote it from the status of the third person of the Godhead will trigger an immediate response fro mother orthodoxy. That should be considered a given on this website. In fact, I think there is a rule against in. Orthodoxy is very keen on detecting any such possible attempts to sneak one through. LOL

Forgive me for this, but... Your point is...? I don't and didn't indicate I thought that, did I? (If this is directed at me) He is a "force" (to be reckoned with) but is most definitely a person, with a persona and personality, a mind, heart, will and emotions...

Again, don't know if that was for me, but if it was...?

God Bless!