The Draft

I personally am utterly against a national draft in its current incarnation.

But something...confuses me about the idea.

The vast majority of people I see calling for a draft are people who wouldn't have to do anything if there was a draft. They're too old or disabled and wouldn't actually have to go anywhere.

Now, as someone who is of draftable age, it seems to make more sense that the people who will actually be doing the fighting and dying should there be a draft, should be the ones to decide if there should be one or not.

I dont see how its right to hand someone a rifle and kick them out the door to go fight and die, without even ASKING if they want to.

It just seems very hypocritical "We're fighting for freedom! So we'll force people to go and fight for us even if they dont want to, all in the name of FREEDOM!!!!"

I faced the draft for Vitenam. I was fortunate my personal physician (yup back in the dark ages when physicians and patients actually ahd relationships) had been a flight surgeon and knew hte Selective service medical regs better than the doctors at the draft board.

I opposed that draft and oppose one now. That the state needs soldiers for a war is different than the state facing a real threat. I see WW II as different. That was a real threat. In that situation a draft makes sense. As an individual I might not want to go and possibly die, but taking my chances with a draft would have ben OK. Not for anything since.

I have no objection to ROTC programs where one gets their education and then pays with their service. I have no problem with National Guard units being called up (as long as regular forces are called first). In those cases you made your choice and take your chances.

I agree - it's acceptable to draft people only when your country is under threat.

The British territorials were sent to Afghanistan a couple of years ago. It was the first time the territorials had faced active service since the Second World War, and a large number of people regarded it as totally inappropriate. The Territorial Army is a last resort for when we're at serious risk. To send territorials to Afghanistan was a really stupid idea.

Steezie said:

I personally am utterly against a national draft in its current incarnation.

But something...confuses me about the idea.

The vast majority of people I see calling for a draft are people who wouldn't have to do anything if there was a draft. They're too old or disabled and wouldn't actually have to go anywhere.

Now, as someone who is of draftable age, it seems to make more sense that the people who will actually be doing the fighting and dying should there be a draft, should be the ones to decide if there should be one or not.

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So you want to put 18 year-olds in Congress? SHUDDDER!

I dont see how its right to hand someone a rifle and kick them out the door to go fight and die, without even ASKING if they want to.

It just seems very hypocritical "We're fighting for freedom! So we'll force people to go and fight for us even if they dont want to, all in the name of FREEDOM!!!!"

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What's so hypocritical about it!? You seem to be assuming that none of those in favor of the draft have never been drafted themselves. Whether or not one wants to be drafted has NEVER been a consideration. The country doesn't really care what you may or may not want in this regard, so it' isn't about to waste time asking.

Want to live in a country, then you're expected to abide by its laws. Don't like the laws? Then I suggest you work to get them changed. Lots a luck.

Washington said:

So you want to put 18 year-olds in Congress? SHUDDDER!

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No I want the draft to be put to a national vote

What's so hypocritical about it!? You seem to be assuming that none of those in favor of the draft have never been drafted themselves. Whether or not one wants to be drafted has NEVER been a consideration. The country doesn't really care what you may or may not want in this regard, so it' isn't about to waste time asking.

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So a FREE country will FORCE people to fight and die if they do not want?

Want to live in a country, then you're expected to abide by its laws. Don't like the laws? Then I suggest you work to get them changed. Lots a luck.

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Making people follow the law is one thing, the vast majority of the time its for their own safety. But FORCING someone to fight and die for a cause they dont believe in...Im not seeing whats so "free" about that

If there was a draft for the war in Iraq or a similarly unjust war, I would not go. I hope I would be brave enough to be snipping wires, smashing windows, cutting pipes, and destroying documents at the nearest draft office in protest.

If there is invaders on American soil eveyone should serve. Other than that it is 'fishing with a golden hook' and should be volunteer only.

I do favor a draft, because it forces the politicians to convince the families of America that their sons and daughters need to risk life and limb. If there's gonna be a war, this brings it home. So our administration better have a darn good reason to fight it, a smart plan for how to fight it, and a clear way to end it.

And anyway, if we're really facing a threat to our national security, why would we NOT fight it with everything we've got? If we need manpower, why would we burden our reserves by continually extending their tours?

Conscription tests our political will. If we don't have the cojones for a draft, then we shouldn't be fighting a war.

Steezie said:

No I want the draft to be put to a national vote

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is it just the draft that should be voted on nationally or all proposed laws? I think I am safe to assume you do not wish all proposed laws to be put on a national ballot....

I second you, Steezie. I am totally and utterly against the draft.

Steezie said:

No I want the draft to be put to a national vote

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In light of your statement "it seems to make more sense that the people who will actually be doing the fighting and dying should there be a draft, should be the ones to decide if there should be one or not." I assume such voting would only be among those eligible for the draft.

So a FREE country will FORCE people to fight and die if they do not want?

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Yup. Welcome to the real world. Do you think everyone who goes to war does so because they want to? Please say, No.

Making people follow the law is one thing, the vast majority of the time its for their own safety. But FORCING someone to fight and die for a cause they dont believe in...Im not seeing whats so "free" about that

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Evidently you figure this "freedom" thing is some kind of unqualified absolute. It isn't. You are only as free as the law allows.

I agree with the Libertarian position on the draft: any country that can't get enough volunteers to defend it, doesn't deserve to survive.

Steezie said:

I personally am utterly against a national draft in its current incarnation.

But something...confuses me about the idea.

The vast majority of people I see calling for a draft are people who wouldn't have to do anything if there was a draft. They're too old or disabled and wouldn't actually have to go anywhere.

Now, as someone who is of draftable age, it seems to make more sense that the people who will actually be doing the fighting and dying should there be a draft, should be the ones to decide if there should be one or not.

I dont see how its right to hand someone a rifle and kick them out the door to go fight and die, without even ASKING if they want to.

It just seems very hypocritical "We're fighting for freedom! So we'll force people to go and fight for us even if they dont want to, all in the name of FREEDOM!!!!"

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draft in any war that does not serve to protect OUR country is not warranted. sorry.

Let just say a min this war is just about the oil.. Do any of you have any real Idea what would happen if we were suddlenly be cut off from that resource???
Every thing EVERYTHING that you know and enjoy will be gone.

Electricity in most smaller communities, Food in stores, restaurants, no more plastic products (just think what we would do without most plastics), tires, no more shipping, no more mail, just about every personal product has some kinda petroleum base, A/C, Refrigeration, aslphalt for roads, roofing shingles, This country will shut down.. forget about police unless you live in a populated area and then they will be over whelmed because of the influx of refugee's.. Look at Post Katrina New Orleans the mass panic and confusion without the Governmental infrastructure They all depended on..

Imagine that country wide. with no hope of relief.. Unless you live like the amish You benefit from Oil! You ARE the reason for the war.. Look at this country before the industrial revolution.. (1850's) This is what you want when you condemn the life that oil brings..

Now when the government says we need more people to fight the people who want to send us back to the 1850's then I say fight them even if we have to draw straws.. If the government wants me I'd be proud to serve.. if they want my son He will know what he may be asked to lay down his life for..

The real truth of the matter is until we can live with out the stuff we all are hooked on it.. With in the next 5 years or so you all will begin to see exactly how much when fuel prices continue to rise, and everything you buy get effected by the shipping rate increase.. not just your weekly trip to the pump.

Now add the pain and suffering of these people who's government's Gross national product profit's rival the leading nations of the world and just look at what these people endure, how they live, the lack of everything..

What will happen when the oil drys up? if things are good now, and the money is flowing, (the people have nothing) what happens when we all go "green" or it runs out? will we care then? You don't now, and Your lives are tied to the only product the country exports..

So is unicef going to kick out the dictators? what about Green peace? will they kill the insurgent fighters to put in well, build schools or construct roads? Or do we already not care?

Wakey wakey people!

I support compusory national service, but I believe an option to serve as a police officer, fire officer or ambulance officer should be included, so that anyone who doesn't want to be in the military has an option not to be.

Of course I wouldn't support it, a living weapon who dies for no purpose.. yay. But then again, I'm of that age, so am I biased? It doesn't matter what I think though. :/ Proud to serve, pfft..

drich0150 said:

Let just say a min this war is just about the oil.. Do any of you have any real Idea what would happen if we were suddlenly be cut off from that resource???
Every thing EVERYTHING that you know and enjoy will be gone.

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So it's okay to forcibly and violently steal someone else's stuff on the grounds that you really, really want it?

drich0150 said:

Let just say a min this war is just about the oil.. Do any of you have any real Idea what would happen if we were suddlenly be cut off from that resource???

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Yeah, we'll have to seriously switch to wind, solar, and tidal energy as we warm up relations with Russia for their oil.

yeah. this idea that we're entitled to a draft to attack people and be destructive because of oil interests is insane. no one should HAVE to give their life so anyone else can drive an SUV.

Steezie said:

I personally am utterly against a national draft in its current incarnation.

But something...confuses me about the idea.

The vast majority of people I see calling for a draft are people who wouldn't have to do anything if there was a draft. They're too old or disabled and wouldn't actually have to go anywhere.

Now, as someone who is of draftable age, it seems to make more sense that the people who will actually be doing the fighting and dying should there be a draft, should be the ones to decide if there should be one or not.

I dont see how its right to hand someone a rifle and kick them out the door to go fight and die, without even ASKING if they want to.

It just seems very hypocritical "We're fighting for freedom! So we'll force people to go and fight for us even if they dont want to, all in the name of FREEDOM!!!!"

Click to expand...

Well, I am able bodied and in the Army and have served five years...

Personally, I see the purpose: boost numbers in the military and have them fulfill their national service.

No one thinks of 'service' anymore but rather as the government as an instiution which merely is supposed to give them handouts.

I do not support jailing people who avoid the draft but rather I would support taking away their right to vote -- why should you vote for the country if you won't fight for it? For everyone that wants Congressmen to serve in the military there sure are a lot of people who have no interest serving themselves.