The Double Message of Eternal Security.

[Dan61861]

Speaking of His rest:

11 ...They shall not enter into my rest.)
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;"
(Hebrews 3:11-14).


...

11 ...They shall not enter into my rest.)
12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;"
(Hebrews 3:11-14). If we hold the beginning...Christ and Him Crucified.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[Dan61861]

Our rest is in Christ and Him crucified...our faith in the beginning.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[stuart lawrence]

I agree, The Holy Spirit never glorifies Himself. He glorifies Christ. He testifies that Christ has come. He convicts the world of sin. This is exactly what the Holy Spirit was doing when Christ was accused of miracles by the devil. I have watched many charismatic programs...Christ isn't found.

Without wishing to offend others. Many in these churches do have a very phariseeical attitude. For they earnestly believe in righteousness according to observing the law. I had a relative. They went to one of these churches. They insisted you must live to a very high moral standard. They looked down on single parents, and those who smoked or drank. my relative lacked love, mercy and compassion for others.
For many years we did not meet. Then one day I went to visit them. I was stunned by the person standing before me. Love shone from them, they had totally changed. The reason?
My relative said they now knew they did not have to be good enough for God. They were saved because Jesus died for them.
In my experience, the more in earnest you are that heaven is attained based in a very high standard of moral living, the less you reflect what Christ termed the higher points off the law in your life. Love is the first casualty of such an aporoach

 

[stuart lawrence]

What kind of tongues do you speak?

It doesn't help you know trying to tell others they need to speak in tongues. Much better to encourage them. I don't see encouragement as proclaiming it is easy never to commit sin, and to suggest you yourself do not sin.
Contemplate the effect that would have in others who do not claim to be sinless. Try and contemplate hard on it. Try and put yourself in their shoes. Think of their feelings.

 

[Dan61861]

Without wishing to offend others. Many in these churches do have a very phariseeical attitude. For they earnestly believe in righteousness according to observing the law. I had a relative. They went to one of these churches. They insisted you must live to a very high moral standard. They looked down on single parents, and those who smoked or drank. my relative lacked love, mercy and compassion for others.
For many years we did not meet. Then one day I went to visit them. I was stunned by the person standing before me. Love shone from them, they had totally changed. The reason?
My relative said they now knew they did not have to be good enough for God. They were saved because Jesus died for them.
In my experience, the more in earnest you are that heaven is attained based in a very high standard of moral living, the less you reflect what Christ termed the higher points off the law in your life. Love is the first casualty of such an aporoach

It is amazing, the more we rest in Him the more everything else just falls away. Who do I have in heaven, but Him. Who do I have on earth, but Him.

God will not share His glory. May God be magnified.

 

[Dan61861]

It doesn't help you know trying to tell others they need to speak in tongues. Much better to encourage them. I don't see encouragement as proclaiming it is easy never to commit sin, and to suggest you yourself do not sin.
Contemplate the effect that would have in others who do not claim to be sinless. Try and contemplate hard on it. Try and put yourself in their shoes. Think of their feelings.

yet, they measure their perfection by the Law.

The only way a person cannot sin is by being in Christ and not under the Law. That is when God no longer imputes sin on us. It isn't that we don't sin, it is God not charging us with sin.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[Dan61861]

Yet, God forbid that we do sin. When we do we have an advocate in heaven...our glorious Lord...The King of Kings....JESUS.

 

[stuart lawrence]

yet, they measure their perfection by the Law.

The only way a person cannot sin is by being in Christ and not under the Law. That is when God no longer imputes sin on us. It isn't that we don't sin, it is God not charging us with sin.

In Christ
Daniel

A minister once wrote that when you try and obey the law to attain heaven you either become crushed or hard nosed. He is correct. The only way you can convince yourself you never sin is to dumb down the law of God from the pristene level it is set at.

 

[Dan61861]

A minister once wrote that when you try and obey the law to attain heaven you either become crushed or hard nosed. He is correct. The only way you can convince yourself you never sin is to dumb down the law of God from the pristene level it is set at.

I truly believe they have no Idea how Holy and Righteous God truly is to think man can attain this...laughable. The only way we can be Holy like He is Holy, the only way we can be Perfect like He is Perfect. Is by putting on Christ, He is our covering. He is our righteousness, He is our Holiness, He is our Perfection.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Tell me, you have been in this conversation for a LONG time. What am I preaching?

The same as stuart

 

[1stcenturylady]

I agree, The Holy Spirit never glorifies Himself. He glorifies Christ. He testifies that Christ has come. He convicts the world of sin. This is exactly what the Holy Spirit was doing when Christ was accused of miracles by the devil. I have watched many charismatic programs...Christ isn't found.

There are only two programs I watch. Sid Roth's It's Supernatural is my favorite. I never watch any Word of Faith ministers who preach seed faith. To me that is nothing more than extortion.

 

[1stcenturylady]

Yes, it is foolishness to them...to them I am speaking a foreign language. They do not understand a word I say.

Yes, I can relate to that. That even happens to me among Christians! And even get ganged up upon, and get unkind accusations thrown at me, like I'm stupid, and their unbalanced liberal grace is right. But the unkindness shows they have no love. So who has the Spirit?

 

[1stcenturylady]

It doesn't help you know trying to tell others they need to speak in tongues. Much better to encourage them. I don't see encouragement as proclaiming it is easy never to commit sin, and to suggest you yourself do not sin.
Contemplate the effect that would have in others who do not claim to be sinless. Try and contemplate hard on it. Try and put yourself in their shoes. Think of their feelings.

I wasn't suggesting he needs to speak in tongues, just asking as I didn't know. Just trying to figure his background. You, he, and even Jason argue with me so much I was troubled. You sometimes can be friendly, then always end up accusing me of not understanding grace, as if only you know. Its like the scorpion riding across the river on a frogs back. In the middle he stings the frog, because it is his nature. What scriptures I preach are foolishness to you all.

 

[Dan61861]

Yes, I can relate to that. That even happens to me among Christians! And even get ganged up upon, and get unkind accusations thrown at me, like I'm stupid, and their unbalanced liberal grace is right. But the unkindness shows they have no love. So who has the Spirit?

I truly hope you don't think I have been unkind...several times I have agreed with your post. I am blunt though, I won't back down from dangerous doctrine. If I did, that would be truly unloving.

I truly do try to explain myself as best I can. I'm a steelworker though...not a college professor.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[1stcenturylady]

I truly hope you don't think I have been unkind...several times I have agreed with your post. I am blunt though, I won't back down from dangerous doctrine. If I did, that would be truly unloving.

I truly do try to explain myself as best I can. I'm a steelworker though...not a college professor.

In Christ
Daniel

Its that you believe I am preaching "dangerous doctrine." You even asked me if I believe I am sinless, when I deliberately stated, willful sin. You and stuart believe the scriptures I teach on are impossible, thus foolishness.

 

[Dan61861]

Its that you believe I am preaching "dangerous doctrine." You even asked me if I believe I am sinless, when I deliberately stated, willful sin. You and stuart believe the scriptures I teach on are impossible, thus foolishness.

From your post I was asking if that is what you were saying. Wouldn't that be the polite thing to do? I think I said, are you saying you don't sin. I would have to check. But I'm not sure how that would be offensive.

Explain to me how you sin, but it isn't you willing sinning? I truly do not understand that.

 

[stuart lawrence]

I wasn't suggesting he needs to speak in tongues, just asking as I didn't know. Just trying to figure his background. You, he, and even Jason argue with me so much I was troubled. You sometimes can be friendly, then always end up accusing me of not understanding grace, as if only you know. Its like the scorpion riding across the river on a frogs back. In the middle he stings the frog, because it is his nature. What scriptures I preach are foolishness to you all.

Your insistence it is easy not to commit sin, is at best naive, at worst.......
I am afraid it is the mantra I grew up with. At church on a Sunday many folk gave the impression they lived virtually sinless lives but they could not keep it up 24/7.
BTW
Biblical perfection is not sinless perfection.
As the insults are flying and you are likening me to being a scorpion/ that us my nature whilst you are the innocent one being persecuted, it may be better if we cease discussion.
Please note, I have not inferred you may be a scorpion. I wouldn't use such language

 

[Dan61861]

Your insistence it is easy not to commit sin, is at best naive, at worst.......
I am afraid it is the mantra I grew up with. At church on a Sunday many folk gave the impression they lived virtually sinless lives but they could not keep it up 24/7.
BTW
Biblical perfection is not sinless perfection.
As the insults are flying and you are likening me to being a scorpion/ that us my nature whilst you are the innocent one being persecuted, it may be better if we cease discussion.
Please note, I have not inferred you may be a scorpion. I wouldn't use such language

Heck, I thought you were the undead...you never sleep.

 

[stuart lawrence]

If it is easy never to commit sin, it is easy never to have an impure thought, never to say an unkind word, never to think negatively about your neighbour. It is easy to always, without slip love all those you come into contact with, including those who persecute, malign, slander you etc.

Some peoples idea of what sin actually is, is very shallow

 

[stuart lawrence]

For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other so that you do not do what you want
Gal5:17

Apparently, some don't have this conflict, they have transcended it.