The Double Message of Eternal Security.

[1stcenturylady]

For we maintain a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law
Rom3:28

David says the same thing when he speaks if the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness/ justification apart from works
Rom 4:6

You see that a man is justified by what he does and not by faith alone
James2:24

Don't you find that when someone writes "law" in scripture, it could mean the outward rituals, such as circumcision and observing days, rather than moral law? Or do you link them all together?

 

[stuart lawrence]

Don't you find that when someone writes "law" in scripture, it could mean the outward rituals, such as circumcision and observing days, rather than moral law? Or do you link them all together?

It's definitely all linked together. Rom ch7 proves that

Besides which, whenever Paul states we are to die to a righteousness of observing the law/ works, he never differentiated between moral/ legalistic law whenever he stated that

 

[1stcenturylady]

It's definitely all linked together. Rom ch7 proves that

Besides which, whenever Paul states we are to die to a righteousness of observing the law/ works, he never differentiated between moral/ legalistic law whenever he states that

Well, I'll find out in this next read through. I do find whenever we discuss commandments on the internet, I quote 1 John 3:23 as NT commandments, and SDA and Messianics always refer to the big ten.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Well, I'll find out in this next read through. I do find whenever we discuss commandments on the internet, I quote 1 John 3:23 as NT commandments, and SDA and Messianics always refer to the big ten.

Have you that open mind you referred to earlier?

In rom 7:4-6 Paul states:

The Christian must die to the law in order to live for God
Sinfull passions are aroused in you by the law if you live under it
The Christian is released from the law and serves in the new way of the Spirit, not the old way of the written code/ law

WHICH LAW is Paul referring to in those verses?

In the next five verses he carries on, giving a personal example from his own life as to why he had to die to the law. The example he gave was: Thou shalt not covet, which is one of the TC

 

[1stcenturylady]

Have you that open mind you referred to earlier?

In rom 7:4-6 Paul states:

The Christian must die to the law in order to live for God
Sinfull passions are aroused in you by the law if you live under it
The Christian is released from the law and serves in the new way of the Spirit, not the old way of the written code/ law

WHICH LAW is Paul referring to in those verses?

In the next five verses he carries on, giving a personal example from his own life as to why he had to die to the law. The example he gave was: Thou shalt not covet, which is one of the TC

Recently I did find a verse in Romans 7 (8) which brought me to want to investigate thoroughly, so I will do that. The question I have is how we become "dead" to sin. Is it only not being under the law, or because we now have the Holy Spirit creating new desires, and our desires to sin are literally dead. In my own life I found the second to be true.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Recently I did find a verse in Romans 7 (8) which brought me to want to investigate thoroughly, so I will do that. The question I have is how we become "dead" to sin. Is it only not being under the law, or because we now have the Holy Spirit creating new desires, and our desires to sin are literally dead.

For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law but under grace
Rom6:14

The holy spirit sanctifies us, but according to Paul, only if you live under grace, not law

 

[1stcenturylady]

For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law but under grace
Rom6:14

The holy spirit sanctifies us, but according to Paul, only if you live under grace, not law

But then we ask, what is grace? Is it power over sin, or are we free to be in the flesh?

 

[stuart lawrence]

But then we ask, what is grace? Is it power over sin, or are we free to be in the flesh?

The insurmountable problem for many, in accepting Pauls message is:
If you have no righteousness of observing the law, why is that not a licence to sin?

And it makes no sense to the rational mind to state: sin shall not be your master, for you are not under a righteousness of observing the law.

And yet, that is what Paul relentlessly and plainly wrote

 

[1stcenturylady]

The insurmountable problem for many, in accepting Pauls message is:
If you have no righteousness of observing the law, why is that not a licence to sin?

And it makes no sense to the rational mind to state: sin shall not be your master, for you are not under a righteousness of observing the law.

And yet, that is what Paul relentlessly and plainly wrote

But as 1 John 1:8 shows, it is not always "clear." I don't know about you, but I can't read with an open mind, if I bring my own preconceived beliefs in with it. I have to let God speak, and just get out of the way.

 

[stuart lawrence]

But as 1 John 1:8 shows, it is not always "clear." I don't know about you, but I can't read with an open mind, if I bring my own preconceived beliefs in with it. I have to let God speak, and just get out of the way.

Absolutely. I remember upon becoming a Christian sitting on my bed, deep in thought. Over half the population of the earth believed in God. Two billion of them followed the Christian religion. Over one billion Catholics and a variety of protestant Churches. And of these three billion, most disagreed with others, even in their own Christian denominations concerning some points. And I was convinced, the majority of the three billion were much smarter than me. I suddenly felt very small in the grand scheme of things. I wanted to follow THE truth? What could I do? I did the only possible thing I could do in the circumstances. I knelt by my bed and asked God to lead me into truth as I read the Bible and simply trusted he would. Does that mean I know everything? Heck no! But I trust God that generally speaking he is faithful to answer my prayer and not allow me to venture up blind alleys as it were

 

[1stcenturylady]

Absolutely. I remember upon becoming a Christian sitting on my bed, deep in thought. Over half the population of the earth believed in God. Two billion of them followed the Christian religion. Over one billion Catholics and a variety of protestant Churches. And of these three billion, most disagreed with others, even in their own denominations concerning some points. And I was convinced, the majority of the three billion were much smarter than me. I suddenly felt very small in the grand scheme of things. I wanted to follow THE truth? What could I do? I did the only possible thing I could do in the circumstances. I knelt by my bed and asked God to lead me into truth as I read the Bible and simply trusted he would. Does that mean I know everything? Heck no! But I trust God that generally speaking he is faithful to answer my prayer and not allow me to venture up blind alleys as it were

Yes, I do that every time I read. Some just look for ways to win a debate, but always learning and never coming to a full knowledge of the TRUTH. The only key I would give someone seeking truth is to be humble. Humility is the key, because God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble. James 4:6

 

[stuart lawrence]

Yes, I do that every time I read. Some just look for ways to win a debate, but always learning and never coming to a full knowledge of the TRUTH. The only key I would give someone seeking truth is to be humble. Humility is the key, because God resists the proud, but gives grace to the humble. James 4:6

Websites such as these are often not the best example of humility. Many come believing they know much and are here to enlighten others concerning the truth they believe they know. Have I ever been guilty in debates? Yes, I would be lying to say otherwise

 

[1stcenturylady]

Websites such as these are often not the best example of humility. Many come believing they k ow much and are here to enlighten others concerning the truth they believe they know. Have I ever been guilty in debates? Yes, I would be lying to say otherwise

Yes, I've been on these for years and had my struggles. But I grew in the fruit of the Spirit, and I'll forever be grateful for all the pruning.

It must be going on 2 am there. It's going on 8 pm here.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Yes, I've been on these for years and had my struggles. But I grew in the fruit of the Spirit, and I'll forever be grateful for all the pruning.

It must be going on 2 am there. It's going on 8 pm here.

1:46

I noticed you posting in the early hours a few times! Gets addictive at times doesn't it!

 

[stuart lawrence]

Yes, I've been on these for years and had my struggles. But I grew in the fruit of the Spirit, and I'll forever be grateful for all the pruning.

It must be going on 2 am there. It's going on 8 pm here.

Let me leave you with a thought.
If I said to you: If you think of a pink rabbit God will condemn you to hell. What's the first thought that would come into your head if you actually believed me?

 

[1stcenturylady]

Let me leave you with a thought.
If I said to you: if you think of a pink rabbit God will condemn you to hell. What's the first thought that would come into your head if you actually believed me?

Pink rabbits. LOL
Good night.

 

[1stcenturylady]

1:46

I noticed you posting in the early hours a few times! Gets addictive at times doesn't it!

I have insomnia, and just ran out of my pills. I didn't get up today until 2:30 pm. I missed church. What I'm addicted to I've had to have since 1969 to stay on a regular sleep pattern.

 

[stuart lawrence]

Pink rabbits. LOL
Good night.

Exactly. A righteousness of observing such a law would have to be in place wouldn't it.
However, as you know no such law of righteousness exists, you won't think of such a creature will you.

But what if you said to someone:
If you covet/ lust God will condemn you to hell.

What thoughts will then enter their head?

 

[Dan61861]

Recently I did find a verse in Romans 7 (8) which brought me to want to investigate thoroughly, so I will do that. The question I have is how we become "dead" to sin. Is it only not being under the law, or because we now have the Holy Spirit creating new desires, and our desires to sin are literally dead. In my own life I found the second to be true.

Death is swallowed up in victory!
O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus has defeated sin, He has defeated death. Our victory is in Christ. We ourselves have died with Christ, born again under the Grace of God. Sin no longer has any power over us, we will not die...we will be raised up with Christ. We surrender ourselves, never again looking to the Law for righteousness. We look to Christ and His righteousness alone. This is one of the reasons God says, blessed are those that the Lord does not impute sin. Christ has gathered us up under His wing.

The Law is there to teach us that we are sinners. To humble us before God and one another. The greatest act of the Law was to point us to Christ. Once we have learned this, there is no longer a need for the Law, a school master. God places His Spirit in us, God's love begins to grow.

If I say I love my wife, yet the only reason I don't cheat on my wife is because the Law says thou shalt not...what kind of love am I truly showing? Yet as a man I can say I love my wife, because of this love I don't cheat on her...isn't this a greater love? This is how loving God and loving thy neighbor fulfills the Law, without being under the Law.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Whenever somebody justifies in doing the wrong thing instead of the right thing in their belief, it is a sure bet that such a belief is wrong. Eternal Security proposes that one can do evil and yet still be saved. Yet, the other message of Eternal Security tries to cloak or hide this by saying that believers will also be more Christ like. How can one be more Christ like if they are having the mindset that is not of Christ? Christ does not want us to think we can sin or that it is okay to sin because we have a belief on Him. Christ does not want us to minimize sin and the spiritual death that it brings (See Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Galatians 5:19-21, 1 John 3:15).


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