The Double Message of Eternal Security.

[stuart lawrence]

They question is how much time during the day do you stay in the flesh and sinning, and how much time are you walking in the Spirit and not sinning.

Well I would say. Crushing others will impossible demands is sinning. Not practising what you preach is sinning.
How many times a day can people do that and still be saved? They are breaking the second most important commandment

 

[ToBeLoved]

But can a person commit homosexual acts every once in a while the rest of their life and be saved?
What about murder?
What about the abuse of children?
What about rape?
What about being a man harlot?
What about lying?
What about hate?

What sins are acceptable?
Where is the line drawn?
Does a belief on Jesus really take these sins away and give us a license to minimize sin?
I think not.
No belief alone really transforms or changes a person.
Especially a belief that can potentially mislead others to think they have a license to sin (if they do not explain themselves properly).


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Why not ask God, instead of us giving our "own opinion".

Much more prayer, much less opinion.

Why do you hold your own opinion so high? Your opinion is not God's Word. Thank you Jesus!

I love rhetorical questions. Those one asks, not one that someone asks, and then follows with their own ways and thoughts. God's ways are NOT our ways.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Why not ask God, instead of us giving our "own opinion".

Much more prayer, much less opinion.

Why do you hold your own opinion so high? Your opinion is not God's Word. Thank you Jesus!

I love rhetorical questions. Those one asks, not one that someone asks, and then follows with their own ways and thoughts. God's ways are NOT our ways.

Well, I have prayed about whether or not Eternal Security in the past was true or not. But truth is not ultimately determined alone by praying but by God's Word. The Word of God condemns Eternal Security on practically every page of the New Testament and in many places in the OT, as well. One has to either (a) Ignore the Scriptures or (b) Change the Scriptures in what they plainly say in order to make Eternal Securiy work. For God is good, and God is holy. He would not allow for anyone to do evil in His name with His rewarding that person. It's unthinkable and sick to suggest otherwise.


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[ToBeLoved]

Well, I have prayed about whether or not Eternal Security in the past was true or not. But truth is not ultimately determined alone by praying but by God's Word. The Word of God condemns Eternal Security on practically every page of the New Testament and in many places in the OT, as well. One has to either (a) Ignore the Scriptures or (b) Change the Scriptures in what they plainly say in order to make Eternal Securiy work. For God is good, and God is holy. He would not allow for anyone to do evil in His name with His rewarding that person. It's unthinkable and sick to suggest otherwise.


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What does that have to do with the fact that you never rest on God's Word?

Every post has your own personal opinion and ponderings mixed with scripture.

If God's Word meant that much to you in the sense that it guides people, you would not put your own opinions in every post.

Some use God's Word to try to validate their own thinking .... ponder this.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jason, what if your loving wife turn to you one day and said...

Honey, I love you dearly. I love you so much, I will always be true to you. No matter what, I will never forsake you. You can do anything you want, I will always be here for you. I will always forgive you.

Would you begin to sleep around on her? If no, why not...there is no longer any rule that says you cannot.

This is the love God has for you, This is the love God wants from you. He will write His Law on your heart.

In Christ
Daniel

If you tell somebody that they are saved no matter what they do, then they are going to do evil or sin at some point without worrying it will truly matter or not. It does not matter how much you say that God loves them. If you give a person a license to sin, they are going to take it.

But God did not set it up in the way as you suggest. We know man has free will and if a wife (who is loving and devoted to her husband) does not guarantee that such a man will not cheat on her. Now, you may suggest that the Christian is a transformed and changed creature whereby he will not think that way. But I would have to say this is simply not true. For if God changed a person's free will, then that means God can force save people and or over ride their free will to do His will. If that was the case, then we would see God's people being mndless slave puppets of doing perfect acts of obedience here upon this Earth.


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[Bible Highlighter]

What does that have to do with the fact that you never rest on God's Word?

Every post has your own personal opinion and ponderings mixed with scripture.

If God's Word meant that much to you in the sense that it guides people, you would not put your own opinions in every post.

Some use God's Word to try to validate their own thinking .... ponder this.

I have provided many verses to you before on these forums and they went unanswered. You keep giving personal opinions most of the time and no deep discussion on this with God's Word.



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[ToBeLoved]

If you tell somebody that they are saved no matter what they do, then they are going to do evil or sin at some point without worrying it will truly matter or not.
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That is what YOU do. You don't know what everyone else does, come on now. Let's be real here.

The problem is that you don't rest on what God says, because your too busy quantifying your own beliefs.

God is just the extra thrown in there. A mere afterthought to put a little *punch* behind personal opinion.

Let God's Word work. Let the Holy Spirit work. You over think everything.

 

[stuart lawrence]

If you tell somebody that they are saved no matter what they do, then they are going to do evil or sin at some point without worrying it will truly matter or not. It does not matter how much you say that God loves them. If you give a person a license to sin, they are going to take it.

But God did not set it up in the way as you suggest. We know man has free will and if a wife (who is loving and devoted to her husband) does not guarantee that such a man will not cheat on her. Now, you may suggest that the Christian is a transformed and changed creature whereby he will not think that way. But I would have to say this is simply not true. For if God changed a person's free will, then that means God can force save people and or over ride their free will to do His will. If that was the case, then we would see God's people being mndless slave puppets of doing perfect acts of obedience here upon this Earth.


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The thoughts of someone who does not understand the NC

 

[ToBeLoved]

I have provided many verses to you before on these forums and they went unanswered. You keep giving personal opinions most of the time and no deep discussion on this with God's Word.



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Don't say I'm like you.

I am speaking out against it, so I'd have to be a little off if I spoke out against myself.

Dontcha think?

Some people are so into their own thinking, they think everyone else is like them.

I love the word 'humble'. It's a great word that God uses a lot.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Not true... God condemns, huh...? Not my God... Convicts sometimes, but never condemns that is not love...

Then why did Jesus have to take our punishment of sin upon the cross if God does not condemn sin or evil? Why is there a Judgment whereby the wicked will be cast into the Lake of Fire?

Christ's true flock are believers Knowing they sin, and are saved anyway, cause these tell the truth...

And the devil said to Eve, "Yea, ye shall not surely die." (Genesis 3:4).

The question is not over God not being moral, but the only one omnisicent... and, therefore, the only true judge of good and evil, right and wrong in all circumstances, when we start thinking we can, we are eating the fruit of the wrong tree... That is only for God...

I know God is good. I do not need a Scripture verse to tell me this, but yet it is there for me to tell you that God is good (if you need it). It is a contradiction to say that a believer can do evil and be rewarded with good things and yet say, "God is good." That would mean God is not into fair justice or basic morality. That means we could not trust what was truly good or not in this life. There would be no standard of morality and we can just do whatever we like. But such thinking is clealry wrong.


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We are to love and become perfect in love and that's it...[/QUOTE]

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Don't say I'm like you.

I am speaking out against it, so I'd have to be a little off if I spoke out against myself.

Dontcha think?

Some people are so into their own thinking, they think everyone else is like them.

I love the word 'humble'. It's a great word that God uses a lot.

Yes, without being humble one is not saved.
James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.
So there goes Eternal Security out the window.
Unless of course you believe that all regenerate believer's have been stripped of their free will to no longer have a moment of pride or something every again.

BTW ~ A person cannot be saved without grace. So if God resists the proud and gives grace to only the humble, then that means one has to remain in a humble state to have grace (So as to be saved). Can you say that you have been humble 24/7 since being a Christian?


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[stuart lawrence]

Yes, without being humble one is not saved.


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One has to be humble in their heart, not head

 

[Dan61861]

You never answered my question.

Would you begin to sleep around on her? If no, why not...there is no longer any rule that says you cannot. To add to this, does it take a rule for you to be faithful to your wife?

We all sin, whether we have a license to sin or not as you say. So your argument is a moot point.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[stuart lawrence]

You never answered my question.

Would you begin to sleep around on her? If no, why not...there is no longer any rule that says you cannot. To add to this, does it take a rule for you to be faithful to your wife?

We all sin, whether we have a license to sin or not as you say. So your argument is a moot point.

In Christ
Daniel

Jason has more than once stated, that if he believed no law of righteousness existed he would view that as a licence to sin as much as he wanted.

All I will say is, no truly born again Christian could take such a view, for the law is in their heart

 

[Dan61861]

Jason has more than once stated, that if he believed no law of righteousness existed he would view that as a licence to sin as much as he wanted.

All I will say is, no truly born again Christian could take such a view, for the law is in their heart

Lowering God to meet man's standards is a sad thing. There was another being that said...you will be as gods.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Yes, without being humble one is not saved.
James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.
So there goes Eternal Security out the window.
Unless of course you believe that all regenerate believer's have been stripped of their free will to no longer have a moment of pride or something every again.

BTW ~ A person cannot be saved without grace. So if God resists the proud and gives grace to only the humble, then that means one has to remain in a humble state to have grace (So as to be saved). Can you say that you have been humble 24/7 since being a Christian?


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God RESISTING the proud is grace out the window?????

I think we need to look at the meaning of the word 'resist'.

God resisting the proud is not about salvation my friend.

 

[ToBeLoved]

Jason has more than once stated, that if he believed no law of righteousness existed he would view that as a licence to sin as much as he wanted.

All I will say is, no truly born again Christian could take such a view, for the law is in their heart

I think he may be in awe that others are a little different then him. He seems to be the standard, if only in his own head.

Some people just can't get past thinking about themselves and they motivate their entire world view. Rather than God. It's like when a dog chases their tail. As long as the focus of the dog is their tail, they keep chasing their own tail.

Nothing else exists to a dog chasing their tail. It is all encompassing. Only the dog and it's own tail exist in that thought process.

I must now thank God I don't chase my tail. Thank you Jesus for not letting me get that self involved with myself. I would bore myself in 5 minutes. I'm just not that interesting.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That is what YOU do. You don't know what everyone else does, come on now. Let's be real here.

The problem is that you don't rest on what God says, because your too busy quantifying your own beliefs.

God is just the extra thrown in there. A mere afterthought to put a little *punch* behind personal opinion.

Let God's Word work. Let the Holy Spirit work. You over think everything.

You say all people (including believers) cannot stop sinning, so the truth is that people are going to take it as a license to sin on some level. Therein lies the problem.


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[Bible Highlighter]

God RESISTING the proud is grace out the window?????

I think we need to look at the meaning of the word 'resist'.

God resisting the proud is not about salvation my friend.

See. You don't believe that verse along with many other verses.

James 4:6 plainly says that God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble.
Grace is salvation.
It's such a simple verse to understand.
Yet, you do not like what it says because you prefer to believe in a doctrine that is more comforting (yet it is not true).


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[Bible Highlighter]

Don't say I'm like you.

I am speaking out against it, so I'd have to be a little off if I spoke out against myself.

Dontcha think?

Some people are so into their own thinking, they think everyone else is like them.

I love the word 'humble'. It's a great word that God uses a lot.

Where did I say I was like you?

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[ToBeLoved]

You say all people (including believers) cannot stop sinning, so the truth is that people are going to take it as a license to sin on some level. Therein lies the problem.


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That is your skewed version of reality. Don't include me in your self motivated opinions.

I Read Gods Word and let Him reveal Himslelf to me.

I am not in your bucket. I don't like buckets.

God speaks, I listen. That's that.