The Double Message of Eternal Security.

[stuart lawrence]

Both groups strive to live sinless lives, and when they fail, as they must they earnestly seek forgiveness for failing to remain perfect so they will not be cast into hell.
Then the process starts all over again

 

[stuart lawrence]

A few years ago I was chatting to a catholic. He described to me his walk, in seeking to live a pure and holy life for God, and what happened when he failed.
I was literally stunned. He perfectly described me when I attended a pentecostal church in my youth

 

[1stcenturylady]

A few years ago I was chatting to a catholic. He described to me his walk, in seeking to live a pure and holy life for God, and what happened when he failed.
I was literally stunned. He perfectly described me when I attended a pentecostal church in my youth

What I find fascinating are all the differences in perspective on what the gospel does about sin in the life of a believer.

 

[stuart lawrence]

What I find fascinating are all the differences in perspective on what the gospel does about sin in the life of a believer.

This is what the true gospel does:

For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law but under grace
Rom6:14

Those who insist in living under the law either give up crushed, if they are honest, humble and sincere. Or, others become hard nosed and phariseeical, either excusing their sin or being in denial of it

 

[stuart lawrence]

You don't obey the law by looking to the letter and striving to obey it in the power of the Holy Spirit.
You uphold the law by looking to Christ and trusting he is your righteousness before God. The more you do this the more the fruits of the Spirit grow in your life. (Gal5:22). And against that fruit there is no law( verse23)
For that fruit is the embodiment if how God wants you to live.

But alas, as Jesus said:

Many after drinking the old wine don't want the new. For they say: the old is better
Luke5:39

 

[1stcenturylady]

This is what the true gospel does:

For sin shall no longer be your master, for you are not under law but under grace
Rom6:14

Those who insist in living under the law either give up crushed, if they are honest, humble and sincere. Or, others become hard nosed and phariseeical, either excusing their sin or being in denial of it

If there is no law, why does Paul condemn homosexuality?

 

[stuart lawrence]

If there is no law, why does Paul condemn homosexuality?

There is no law OF RIGHTEOUSNESS for the christian.
The law remains, but Christians have a saviour from their sins/ transgressions of the law. Well some of them do anyway, others appear to reject what is on offer

 

[1stcenturylady]

There is no law OF RIGHTEOUSNESS for the christian.
The law remains, but Christians have a saviour from their sins/ transgressions of the law. Well some of them do anyway, others appear to reject what is on offer

There are churches full of homosexuals, including the pastor. Are they saved?

 

[stuart lawrence]

There are churches full of homosexuals, including the pastor. Are they saved?

As I have never told anyone who claims to be a Christian they are condemned, I won't start now.
All I will say is. A Christian must be conscious of their sin.
IE

A habitual thief remains a habitual thief when saved and has no conviction he is sinning. that is not possible under the core terms of the NC

 

[Neogaia777]

If there is no law, why does Paul condemn homosexuality?

Because of it's destructive nature, camoflauged as Love... Trojan Horse, Pandora's box...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Because of it's destructive nature, camoflauged as Love... Trojan Horse, Pandora's box...

But can a person commit homosexual acts every once in a while the rest of their life and be saved?
What about murder?
What about the abuse of children?
What about rape?
What about being a man harlot?
What about lying?
What about hate?

What sins are acceptable?
Where is the line drawn?
Does a belief on Jesus really take these sins away and give us a license to minimize sin?
I think not.
No belief alone really transforms or changes a person.
Especially a belief that can potentially mislead others to think they have a license to sin (if they do not explain themselves properly).


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

In other words, if Eternal Security was true, then it should automatically cover a person practicing (or living in) the most vile and most wicked of sins out there. There should be no limit to what evil a person can do if God's grace truly were to cover all present and future sin automatically.

Some Eternal Security proponents actually believe this.
This is what is scary.
However, others try to draw a line in the sand and say you cannot live in habitual sin but you WILL sin occasionally (because we have a sin nature that is totally uncontrollable and beyond the power of God for Him to stop).


...

 

[1stcenturylady]

In other words, if Eternal Security was true, then it should automatically cover a person practicing (or living in) the most vile and most wicked of sins out there. There should be no limit to what evil a person can do if God's grace truly were to cover all present and future sin automatically.

Some Eternal Security proponents actually believe this.
This is what is scary.
However, others try to draw a line in the sand and say you cannot live in habitual sin but you WILL sin occasionally (because we have a sin nature that is totally uncontrollable and beyond the power of God for Him to stop).


...

Which, of course, goes against Romans 8:9.

 

[Neogaia777]

But can a person commit homosexual acts every once in a while the rest of their life and be saved?
What about murder?
What about the abuse of children?
What about rape?
What about being a man harlot?
What about lying?
What about hate?

What sins are acceptable?
Where is the line drawn?
Does a belief on Jesus really take these sins away and give us a license to minimize sin?
I think not.
No belief alone really transforms or changes a person.
Especially a belief that can potentially mislead others to think they have a license to sin (if they do not explain themselves properly).


...

I'm not God, you'd have to ask him...? I only know that God knows the heart... and all details of all circumstancial, situational, ect, all factors in a judgement... That's all I know...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

I'm not God, you'd have to ask him...? I only know that God knows the heart... and all details of all circumstancial, situational, ect, all factors in a judgement... That's all I know...?

God Bless!

He's all knowing... That's just not possible for us (right now)...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I'm not God, you'd have to ask him...? I only know that God knows the heart... and all details of all circumstancial, situational, ect, all factors in a judgement... That's all I know...?

God Bless!

I don't have to ask Him in regards to these questions.
Why?
His Word reveals these answers for us.
God condemns a person to think they can sin and still be saved.
God is not immoral; He is good and He will not allow people to think they can do evil with the thinking they are saved. It doesn't work like that.


...

 

[Neogaia777]

I don't have to ask Him in regards to these questions.
Why?
His Word reveals these answers for us.
God condemns a person to think they can sin and still be saved.

Not true... God condemns, huh...? Not my God... Convicts sometimes, but never condemns that is not love...

Christ's true flock are believers Knowing they sin, and are saved anyway, cause these tell the truth...

God is not immoral; He is good and He will not allow people to think they can do evil with the thinking they are saved. It doesn't work like that.


...

The question is not over God not being moral, but the only one omnisicent... and, therefore, the only true judge of good and evil, right and wrong in all circumstances, when we start thinking we can, we are eating the fruit of the wrong tree... That is only for God...

We are to love and become perfect in love and that's it...

 

[Dan61861]

Jason, what if your loving wife turn to you one day and said...

Honey, I love you dearly. I love you so much, I will always be true to you. No matter what, I will never forsake you. You can do anything you want, I will always be here for you. I will always forgive you.

Would you begin to sleep around on her? If no, why not...there is no longer any rule that says you cannot.

This is the love God has for you, This is the love God wants from you. He will write His Law on your heart.

In Christ
Daniel

 

[1stcenturylady]

Not true... God condemns, huh...? Not my God... Convicts sometimes, but never condemns that is not love...

Christ's true flock are believers Knowing they sin, and are saved anyway, cause these tell the truth...


The question is not over God not being moral, but the only one omnisicent... and, therefore, the only true judge of good and evil, right and wrong in all circumstances, when we start thinking we can, we are eating the fruit of the wrong tree... That is only for God...

We are to love and become perfect in love and that's it...

They question is how much time during the day do you stay in the flesh and sinning, and how much time are you walking in the Spirit and not sinning.

 

[Neogaia777]

They question is how much time during the day do you stay in the flesh and sinning, and how much time are you walking in the Spirit and not sinning.

In God's judgment, i do not claim to know, but in my own judgment, about five to ten minutes a day on average (now), but, before...? Before was a lot of time spent in the flesh, up to about 30... I'm 38 now and I've been kinda like a work in progress for the last seven/eight years, when I went from less time in the flesh, and more in the spirit... The flesh is constantly trying to pull me under though sometimes still, though not as much now...

God Bless!