The Doctrines Of Grace

[TimRout]

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Well I guess that explains why I always get condemned when reading the scripture or sitting in church. Great, just great.

So if you're a reprobate and you want to get saved your pretty much out of luck and the gospel will only condemn you even more.

More accurately brother, if you have OCD and your obsession relates to the unpardonable sin, then you're going to interpret just about anything we say as an affirmation of your self-condemning hypothesis.

A true reprobate doesn't care if the gospel condemns him, because he sees the gospel as pure foolishness [1 Cor. 1:18]. You do care. Therefore....

 

[RobertZ]

What if I was only concerned about being left behind in the rapture or going to hell?

Could a reprobate not be concerned about either one of these things?

 

[Tzaousios]

What if I was only concerned about being left behind in the rapture or going to hell?

Could a reprobate not be concerned about either one of these things?

I thought you wanted to take time out to consider your position and what others have stated here? I would appreciate it if you would look at my reply to you in post #129 and comment on it. Thanks.

 

[RobertZ]

I thought you wanted to take time out to consider your position and what others have stated here? I would appreciate it if you would look at my reply to you in post #129 and comment on it. Thanks.

I already stated that I did not know what I thought about it.

 

[Tzaousios]

I already stated that I did not know what I thought about it.

Why not?

You were quite able to state against TimRout that you "seriously doubt God commanded them not to eat of that tree and then somehow overrode his commandment causing them to disobey and eat of of the tree."

I provided the Scripture, which I am sure you can and have read by now, and asked what you thought of it. Why don't you know what you think about this passage? I am not asking you for a picture-perfect exegesis of it.

Numbers 22:20-22

20 And God came to Balaam at night and said to him, “If the men come to call you, rise and go with them; but only the word which I speak to you—that you shall do.” 21 So Balaam rose in the morning, saddled his donkey, and went with the princes of Moab.
22 Then God’s anger was aroused because he went, and the Angel of the LORD took His stand in the way as an adversary against him. And he was riding on his donkey, and his two servants were with him

 

[RobertZ]

I provided the Scripture, which I am sure you can and have read by now, and asked what you thought of it. Why don't you know what you think about this passage? I am not asking you for a picture-perfect exegesis of it.

Because I dont have an answer for you yet, is that so bad? I really dont understand that passage of scripture as it sounds like Balaam did as the Lord commanded yet the Lord turned on him?

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

Because I dont have an answer for you yet, is that so bad? I really dont understand that passage of scripture as it sounds like Balaam did as the Lord commanded yet the Lord turned on him?

Robert,

You seem to be looking for reasons to condemn yourself in every verse of Scripture you study. I think you need to focus on the need God has given you for Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and have simply accept that Faith, and stop trying to become a part time theologian. I don't see this deep dive into the difficult questions about scripture doing you any good. My recommendation for you specifically comes from Proverbs 3:5

Trust in the LORD with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;

 

[TimRout]

What if I was only concerned about being left behind in the rapture or going to hell?

Could a reprobate not be concerned about either one of these things?

My dear brother, whom I love, let's just pause for a moment.

OCD has a favorite question, and we both know what it is: "Ya, but what about....?" No matter how careful and detailed our response, OCD will always insist that we have not met our burden of proof. After all, if we had, the anxiety would go away...right?

So let's pause a moment and consider an alternative approach. Rather than endlessly combing through your personal motives looking for some flaw in your theology or behavior, let's step back, hand this off to Jesus, and rely on Him to kill that monster perched on your shoulder. Rest brother. Wait on the Lord. OCD is your enemy. Its weapon is fear, and that fear is a lie.

Contend, O LORD, with those who contend with me;
fight against those who fight against me.
Take up shield and buckler;
arise and come to my aid.
Brandish spear and javelin
against those who pursue me.
Say to my soul,
"I am your salvation."
[Ps. 35:1-3/NIV]

 

[Tzaousios]

Because I dont have an answer for you yet, is that so bad? I really dont understand that passage of scripture as it sounds like Balaam did as the Lord commanded yet the Lord turned on him?

No, it is not so bad. But I brought this up again in light of your comment to TimRout and your decision to take time out.

Indeed, the Lord can and does command and punish. What this Scripture shows us is that he is absolutely sovereign and not restrained by human conceptions of "fairness." His will will be done in all cases. We should not be quick to judge God's actions, plan, and what he will and will not do.

 

[catzrfluffy]

I believe you Tim, I know its not a feeling but did you see the part where I stated that (I decided that I was going to go get saved?)

Im worried that if the calvanist position is correct then maybe God did not save me since its something I decided I would do?

God puts it in the heart of man the desire to be saved, it's done by the conviction and the prompting of the Holy Spirit. Like when the jailer cries out: "'Sirs, what must I do to be saved?'" (Acts 16:30) God makes their eyes see and their hearts understand so they turn so He may heal them.

Okay lets say that I am indeed converted and saved. Why suddenly did the whole world seem to become dark all around me and what in the world is going on with this sensitivity to sin? I thought I would be comforted after being saved but instead I suddenly noticed every little thing in the world that was sin that I was once was not able to recognize as being sinful.

If your heart was hardened, this would not happen.

This could also be turned around to say why preach at all since the elect will get saved anyway?

It would seem to make more sense to me to warn people of Hell who have a free will and not a pre planned will from God.

They must be saved through hearing and believing the gospel, that's why Paul was sent by the Lord to preach the gospel to the Gentiles "to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'" (Acts 26:18). Were the Pharisees repentant? Jesus came into the world to save sinners, those who would not believe "that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day." (John 12:48)

Well I guess that explains why I always get condemned when reading the scripture or sitting in church. Great, just great.

So if your a reprobate and you want to get saved your pretty much out of luck and the gospel will only condemn you even more.

"And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'" (Acts 2:21)
"for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.'" (Romans 10:13)
You called on the name of the Lord.

Because I dont have an answer for you yet, is that so bad? I really dont understand that passage of scripture as it sounds like Balaam did as the Lord commanded yet the Lord turned on him?

Balaam went before the men had called him. He rushed out and called them for selfish ambition, covetousness and pride. Like it says in Jude 1:11, "they have rushed for profit into Balaam's error".

 

[RobertZ]

No, it is not so bad. But I brought this up again in light of your comment to TimRout and your decision to take time out.

Indeed, the Lord can and does command and punish. What this Scripture shows us is that he is absolutely sovereign and not restrained by human conceptions of "fairness." His will will be done in all cases. We should not be quick to judge God's actions, plan, and what he will and will not do.

Tell me why Gods anger rose against Balaam when Balaam was only doing what God commanded him to do? this makes no sense to me at all and in fact I find its only making me more bitter inside.

 

[RobertZ]

I think God has been hardening my heart over all these years, this explains why when I wanted to come I wasnt able to and then when I finally did it was too late.

Im so glad I was created to be an object of Gods wrath. I give up, I simply give up.

 

[catzrfluffy]

Why have you decided you are condemned and God has hardened you?

 

[catzrfluffy]

And Balaam rushed out before the men had called him, and he did so for the wrong reasons.

 

[RobertZ]

Why have you decided you are condemned and God has hardened you?

Because I was brought up in a church going christian home and even went to a christian school for 12yrs. I can remember when I was young God dealing with my heart over and over and over again but I was too stupid and stuborn to respond to his callings.

Eventually somewhere over the past few years my heart had gotten so hardened with sin that he stopped calling me. By the time I realized what had happened it was too late.

 

[the particular baptist]

If you're a reprobate, you won't care.

lol, i was thinking the same thing

 

[Tzaousios]

Balaam went before the men had called him. He rushed out and called them for selfish ambition, covetousness and pride. Like it says in Jude 1:11, "they have rushed for profit into Balaam's error".

What? Verses 15 and 21 clearly state that the Moabite men were already there, had called upon him, and that he went with them.

Also, I thought "Balaam's error," in the context of Jude's epistle, was a reference to him being a sorcerer, and him being ambitious, selfish, etc. were negative qualities which the false teachers shared with him.

 

[mlqurgw]

RobertZ, you are not actually thinking you are rationalizing. Rationalizing is forming a view based on what seems reasonable to you but is not necessarily reasonable. It is the common way folks think rather than actually arriving at a conclusion based on facts. People spend money on things they don't need or even want because they rationalize their desire into a need. Criminals steal because they rationalize their greed into a right. I could give you many examples of rational thinking but I hope you get the point. You are convincing yourself rationally rather than logically. Step back and remove your emotions and preconceived conclusions from it and find the truth.

 

[Vince53]

God had already told Balaam not to go curse Israel. When Balak offered him more money to do it, he asked God again, and that was his sin. Sometimes God will tell a Christian not to do something, and the Christian keeps asking over and over again. Eventually, God might chasten the Christian.

God told Balaam to go to curse Israel so that an angel could kill him. Eventually, Balaam got to Balak, and refused to curse Israel, but told Balak that if they could corrupt Israel with their women and their gods, God would punish them. It worked, He did, and Israel killed Balaam later on.

 

[Tzaousios]

Vince53, please see my reply to your comment in post #150