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God, according to this theory. I can't imagine that His hands are tied in the matter.
Christians as well. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the argument "If there were no hell, what would be the point of following Christ?"
Men as a whole. We throw each other into hell all day every day.
Who is attacking God? The one who says "God is good, and He will prove it by His actions", or the one who says, "Do what He says, but not what He does, because He doesn't do what He says"?
Thats weird beliefs in those posts.
Humans choose God or hell for themselves.
Who created creation? Who created choices? Who created hell?God is good. God doesnt force a creation to do good or bad, creation chooses for itself.
God is good. God doesnt force a creation to do good or bad, creation chooses for itself.
Sarcasm(lying) is of the devil.
Right, and Christ said that indeed all his followers would know the truth and have the truth.
I would say the deeper I dig into the Biblical doctrine of hell the more I realize just how serious Scripture is when it warns us about such things. I also see no other way but to take such statements as "torment," "fire," and so on as straightforwardly as possible.
Correct, but that is talking about his children. You will notice that those who disobey his commands are not his children at all. So this is speaking about two different groups of people here.
No, I am suggesting that humans who disobey God's commands are not in the image of God at all.
There are other examples, then, such as death for encroachment upon the tabernacle and so on.
Satan has an entirely different nature than God. We're not talking here about intellectual choices, we're talking about the actual nature of something. At the tree of the knowledge of good/evil man's nature was changed. This is why there are so many statements about light/darkness in the Scriptures.
I would say the context is entirely different. There is no reason not to take fire literally; throughout the OT we are given plenty of examples of God using literal fire and so many statements about fire throughout the NT that there is really no reason to not take them straightforwardly.
In no case in the above examples is the word used of "trying" or "testing" anything. The word is used to describe the adverse affect of something in those particular contexts. It is not being used to describe anything beneficial.
I would say that the passage is not speaking of Gehenna and thus cannot really be used to interpret what goes on at Gehenna.
A further note. I believe Christ used the word "Gehenna" to describe the place of the damned because of the dreadful things that used to go on at Gehenna in ancient times. The idea is probably supposed to correlate with what goes on to the damned in hell.
Well, he sure seems to talk about fire alot and manifest himself in literal fire alot so clearly there is something about fire that is an essential part (or maybe even the essential part) of God's nature. Since no one has ever seen God's physical presence at any time, you would obviously not know whether or not he was a literal fire or not, although from some depictions it appears as though part of him may indeed be:
"26 And above the dome over their heads there was something like a throne, in appearance like sapphire;[e] and seated above the likeness of a throne was something that seemed like a human form. 27 Upward from what appeared like the loins I saw something like gleaming amber, something that looked like fire enclosed all around; and downward from what looked like the loins I saw something that looked like fire, and there was a splendor all around. 28 Like the bow in a cloud on a rainy day, such was the appearance of the splendor all around. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord." Ezek. 1:26-28 (NRSV)
There is something about fire which forms a part of the essential nature of God.
Who is attacking God? The one who says "God is good, and He will prove it by His actions", or the one who says, "Do what He says, but not what He does, because He doesn't do what He says"?
Keep in mind that Christ took our curse....He tasted the 2nd death. How did it come about? Did God do it?
"He made Him who knew no sin to be sin in our behalf" 2Cor 5.
"God was In Christ reconciling the World to Himself" 2Cor 5
"The Lord was pleased to crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a GUILT offering" Is 53:10.
"My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?"
Do you know what that meant to Christ? It meant that the hope of the resurrection went with that abandonment. When the Father forsook Him in terms of Christ’s feeling, then the hope of the resurrection went with it. Jesus was now “treading the winepress alone.” He could no longer look on the Father with hope and assurance as far as His feelings were concerned. He felt the agony of God-abandonment, exactly what the wicked will feel when mercy no longer pleads with the guilty race.
Leaders from your denomination agree:
“He (Jesus) could not see through the portals of the tomb. Hope did not present to Him the coming forth from the grave a conqueror or tell Him of the Father’s acceptance of the sacrifice. He feared that sin was so offensive to God that their separation was to be eternal.” (Ellen White)
Do you realize what Christ was tempted to do on the cross as He hung there? The Father had forsaken Him. But remember, He was still God. He could have taken hold of His divinity independent of the Father, against the Father’s wishes, and come down from the cross to save Himself.
Christ was tempted to come down from the cross and save Himself. Can you understand the temptation? The issue He faced was not to screw up His will power and say, “I’ll hold on for a few hours or for three days.” That is no sacrifice for a God who lives in eternity. The issue was good-bye to life forever, never again to see His Father, never again to go back to heaven. It meant to give up His glory, to give up His life. That was the issue. That is the curse of God.
As He hung on the cross experiencing God’s curse for our sins, Jesus had to make a choice. He could not save Himself and the world at the same time. And He did make the supreme choice. He chose to die eternally that you and I may live in His place. That's agape....
If that is true, then THAT is one of the most profound things I have ever heard.
I have always looked at it as Christ having perfect knowledge, Christ knowing what would happen, Christ looking forward to His resurrection
God's role in the punishment of the Sin-bearer was to withdraw and hand him over or release him to the power of destruction, but not to perform the execution itself. . . .(MM Campbell)
Christ's death holds insights into the nature of the final destruction of the lost. God could not allow the death of Christ to be one way and the death of everyone else to be another way and still apply Christ's death to the account of the saved. They must be equal, in nature rather than circumstances. God the Father's role must be the same in both cases.
If God is sovereign, then He has allowed Satan to come in. He has allowed Satan to tempt Adam and Eve. This has created a problem and this was not solved on the cross.
Bob Ryan,
I have another quote from one of your church co-founders:
God destroys no man. Everyone who is destroyed will have destroyed himself. Everyone who stifles the admonitions of conscience is sowing the seeds of unbelief, and these will produce a sure harvest. By rejecting the first warning from God, Pharaoh of old sowed the seeds of obstinacy, and he reaped obstinacy. God did not compel him to disbelieve. The seed of unbelief which he sowed produced a harvest of its kind. Thus his resistance continued, until he looked upon his devastated land, upon the cold, dead form of his first-born, and the first-born of all in his house and of all the families in his kingdom, until the waters of the sea closed over his horses and his chariots and his men of war. His history is a fearful illustration of the truth of the words that “whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.” Gal. 6:7. Did men but realize this, they would be careful what seed they sow. {COL 84-5}
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