The Difference Between Rhema vs Logos vs Graphe

[K2K]

15Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
-2 Timothy 2:15



No, I don't think it says to study the Word, the verse above clearly says to study and rightly divide the WORD. And again no, it is not "...written 'Scriptures'..." as you say; rather, the phrase "...the word..." in the above verse is translated from the Greek word logos. It is the logos that we are to study and to rightly divide.

One of the reasons we study the Bible is so that we don't get fooled by demons. I believe the verse you are talking about it saying that we should study (The Scriptures are implied) so that when we use our spiritual ears we know that it is the Lord who is giving us instructions and not demons. Thus the Logos (word) that we are dividing is not the Scriptures but words spoken to us.

If we are following the Lord we are doing the work that He tells us. So by studying the Scriptures we can figure out if what we hear with our spiritual ears matches up with the Scriptures.

In the post before this I pointed out that in the Scriptures we read that Jesus over and over talked about hearing HIm. His message was gear on that. Even the Father's message was "This is My Son in whom I am well pleased, listen to Him."

If I am picking up a voice (a word) that doesn't match up with that, I should be able to understand that there is a problem by my studying.

So studying is important, but the message is 'Listen to the Lord'. Some are making 'study the Word (the Scriptures)' the message, when it is supposed to be, 'Hear the Word (the Lord Jesus Christ)'

If you do listen to Him, He will tell you to study the Scriptures. And if "Word' is your name for 'Scriptures', then perhaps Him talking to you will come across 'Study the Word (Scriptures), but still we are not preaching the Scritpures we are preaching Jesus Christ. So our message is still 'Listen to the Word (Jesus Christ), not read the Word.

The fact that we now call both the Scriptures and Jesus "The Word" has confussed us and others. Even in the incorrect interpretation of verses, as in the example given above.

The verse does not say "Study the Word", it just says 'study' - So the 'study' should help you to divide the word of truth. The Lord is the Truth and the Word, but He is not the Scriptures. That is, your are studying the Scriptures to help you divide what you are hearing to make sure it is from the Truth.

 

[Alive_Again]

Do you have ears to hear. So is that your message or our you preaching salvation through the Scriptures as the Word of God?

We've been through this before. You preach salvation by giving them the scriptures, which the Holy Spirit agrees and confirms with signs following. If they want to embrace the truth they will have ears. There's little point in preaching about whether they have ears or not (to the world).

Of course those who are doing their own thing don't have much hearing. Those who are opposed do not have ears at all. We're not going to go there because that is not the intent of our heart.

Mk 4:23 If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.
Mk 7:18 Having eyes, do you not see? and having ears, do you not hear?
Lk 6:47 Everyone who comes to Me and hears My words and acts on them..
Lk 11:27 But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it."
Lk 14:35 ... He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
Mat 17:5..."This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased, listen to Him.

These are all true and come from the same Word I am preaching.

But the message the Father had was "This is My believed Son, with whom I am well-please, listen to Him". Isn't your message the same as the Father's?

Of course it is. You make it sound like it is different by insisting that the Holy Spirit somehow checks out when time is spent in the Word with the Lord. Why do you do that? Can you give me one good reason why He would not be connected to this process?

The reason that I can call it "the Word" is because He is there when I am in it. Maybe that's why typically only the religious call it "the Bible" and those who know Him (with some exception) call it "The Word" as though it is the testimony of God that still speaks (by His Spirit). It is authoritative and will not pass away.

I wish I could list everything the Holy Spirit has said regarding the "Word" and its place in our lives. Sadly it is not really allowed on the forum.

 

[K2K]

We've been through this before. You preach salvation by giving them the scriptures, which the Holy Spirit agrees and confirms with signs following. If they want to embrace the truth they will have ears. There's little point in preaching about whether they have ears or not (to the world).

Of course those who are doing their own thing don't have much hearing. Those who are opposed do not have ears at all. We're not going to go there because that is not the intent of our heart.



These are all true and come from the same Word I am preaching.



Of course it is. You make it sound like it is different by insisting that the Holy Spirit somehow checks out when time is spent in the Word with the Lord. Why do you do that? Can you give me one good reason why He would not be connected to this process?

The reason that I can call it "the Word" is because He is there when I am in it. Maybe that's why typically only the religious call it "the Bible" and those who know Him (with some exception) call it "The Word" as though it is the testimony of God that still speaks (by His Spirit). It is authoritative and will not pass away.

I wish I could list everything the Holy Spirit has said regarding the "Word" and its place in our lives. Sadly it is not really allowed on the forum.

Why do I do that?

The Lord certainly uses the Bible to teach us!! That is why He gave the Bible to us. But are we trying to tell people about the Bible, or are we trying to tell them about the Lord!!

They need to know Him!! That is the one thing truly necessary. And He wants to discuss all the things going on in our life, not just the law, or the meanings of verses.

By preaching the Bible, we wind up giving people the wrong impression!! Too many times I run into people that say 'Well - He talks to me through the Bible". So now they are only looking to the Lord when they pick up their Bible.

What about at their jobs? If people were looking to the Lord when they did their jobs, how much better would they work. They would work smarter, and have better ideas, and all of us would benifit!

And how about hearing from Him concerning marraiges? I'm like the next guy who sometimes says the wrong thing to my wife. Yet I have a wonderful marraige because when I see I am getting in trouble with by wife over the words I said, I simply turn to the Lord and He helps me. Some times by telling me what I should say to her, and sometimes by telling me to go in the other room while He talks to her. And He tells me when to do things for her also, and how she is feeling.

Marraige counselling in most churches involves tell the couple to do what the Bible (The Word) says, but fails to tell them to listen to the Lord and do what He says. But where does your help come from?

And this all applies to students and the classes you take. If you are having a tough time understanding a subject, what do you think the Lord could do for you if you were listening to Him.

And there is a thread going about the Lord healing. He said that if His people harkened to His voice He would heal the land. It is not reading the Bible that causes Him to heal us, but because we listen to Him that He said He would heal the land. You'd think we'd get a clue that listening to Him is what He really wants!!

He has talked to me about everything from how to cook dinner, to the best way to fix my computer. He has talked to me about the best clothes to wear, to the best route to drive. And He told me that He was able to have the same relationship with everyone if they would just believe.

We are suppose to pray that His will is done here on Earth as it is in heaven. If all of us were listening to what He had to say, then wouldn't Earth start looking like heaven? But we don't listen, and lean on our own understanding for just about everything we do.

Do you believe that He is the Great I Am and Wonderful Counselor, and that He loves you. Then aren't you asking Him about every aspect of your life and getting advice from Him on all of it, or is it just the short time in which you have the Bible open?

Even if you studied the Bible for an hour each day and listened to Him the whole time, you'd be missing out for most of your day. How much better would it be for you and for everyone else if we really made Him Lord of our life and not just Lord of our Bible?

My friend - it is not that I am saying the Lord checks out while reading the Bible -check out my posts - I have given testimonies of specfic times and teachings He gave me while reading and even instructing me to read my Bible and exactly which verses. The problem is that many others are leading people to think that the Holy Spirit only checks in while they are reading their Bible. And this has had a terrible effect on others.

One day I was in a Thrift store looking at books when a man came up to me and told me that he need to preach the Word and asked if I had seen a book on it. I had seen several including several Bibles. So I asked the man if the Lord had told him what book he should get? The mand was confused and re-stated that he needed to preach the Word. When I asked the man again if he had talked to the Lord about it like Abramham talked to and heard from the Lord, the man asked me if I thought I could hear from the Lord like Abraham. "Sure", I told him. To which He called me a liar.

So how did this man come to the point of needing to preach the Word and not know that the Lord's sheep hear His voice? Is it because we, even some that hear from Him during the short time they spend in the Bible have made it about reading the Bible instead of learing the Lord by faith?

Enoch walked and talked with the Lord at a time before any Scripture was written, and was no more. Noah listened to the Lord and so built an ark before a single verse was written. And Abraham followed the Lord but didn't have the Bible to read. So if you are Abraham's children of Abraham spiritual speaking, is it reading the Bible or listening to the Lord which is necessary? How is it written? Jesus told Martha that truly only one thing was necessary - was it reading the Bible or listening to Him?

If you are paying close attention to what you read in the Bible, it should be clear that we are preaching Jesus Christ!

He said I stand at the door and knock and if anyone would hear His voice He would come into them and eat with them and them with Him.

That's anyone as in everyone. Should we tell them about that wonderful possiblilty!! They too can hear from the Lord and get advise on all aspects of their life, just like it is explained in the Scriptures!!

Yeah - but who will listen to Him?

 

[Alive_Again]

So as I said:

Of course it is. You make it sound like it is different by insisting that the Holy Spirit somehow checks out when time is spent in the Word with the Lord. Why do you do that? Can you give me one good reason why He would not be connected to this process?

God is still with us all the day. There is a special impartation from the Word you won't get anywhere else or doing anything else. That's not all we do, but the Lord would have us consumed with the prayerful meditation of His Word. His Spirit IS involved. Meditate in it day and night.

But are we trying to tell people about the Bible, or are we trying to tell them about the Lord!!

We are trying to lead them to the Lord. When we share the Word, we demonstrate something about the Lord's character, His testimonies, etc. Something they can base their life on as solid ground. As something uncontestable.

And He wants to discuss all the things going on in our life, not just the law, or the meanings of verses.

That is our testimony.

By preaching the Bible, we wind up giving people the wrong impression!! ...So now they are only looking to the Lord when they pick up their Bible.

This is the Spirit filled section, not the Evangelical section. We are aware of Him in our walk, not just at church, or with the Bible.

Marraige counselling in most churches involves tell the couple to do what the Bible (The Word) says, but fails to tell them to listen to the Lord and do what He says. But where does your help come from?

I wouldn't presume to know what most churches do. Giving them the Word though is solid counsel. It shows you what stands when the storms come. All things lead you to Him.

But we don't listen, and lean on our own understanding for just about everything we do.

That would be if there was a disconnect. Actually when we rely on our own take rather than the Word, we have problems. Our own take, even as a Christian is usually formed within us. When we rely on that which is already given, He assimilates various passages in the Word and imparts understanding.

Then aren't you asking Him about every aspect of your life and getting advice from Him on all of it, or is it just the short time in which you have the Bible open?

Again, this is the Charismatic section. What do you think? Some people aren't do'ers of the Word (no doubt all of us sometimes), but this means praying always.

How much better would it be for you and for everyone else if we really made Him Lord of our life and not just Lord of our Bible?

Honoring His Word (Holy Spirit included) includes honoring what He speaks to our heart. The Word and the Spirit agree.

The problem is that many others are leading people to think that the Holy Spirit only checks in while they are reading their Bible. And this has had a terrible effect on others.

I haven't heard of one yet say anything like that.

Jesus told Martha that truly only one thing was necessary - was it reading the Bible or listening to Him?

If you are paying close attention to what you read in the Bible, it should be clear that we are preaching Jesus Christ!

We are. We are preaching the cross, Christ, our testimony (preaching not ourselves), giving the Word (for Him to confirm with signs), deliverance to the captives, etc.

You potentially have more agreement when you preach primarily the Word and not your own experience, how good that may be.

Why do I do that?

 

[K2K]

So as I said:

Of course it is. You make it sound like it is different by insisting that the Holy Spirit somehow checks out when time is spent in the Word with the Lord. Why do you do that? Can you give me one good reason why He would not be connected to this process?

God is still with us all the day. There is a special impartation from the Word you won't get anywhere else or doing anything else. That's not all we do, but the Lord would have us consumed with the prayerful meditation of His Word. His Spirit IS involved. Meditate in it day and night.

There is not a special imparation from the Scriptures - which you call the Word. All imparation comes from Him who is the Word!!

The Scriptures are a book and not a being which can give you something!!

Thinking that the impartation is from the Scriptures and not God is making the Scriptures your god!

The Lord teaches us by using the Scriptures but not only the Scriptures but everything He created.

We are trying to lead them to the Lord. When we share the Word, we demonstrate something about the Lord's character, His testimonies, etc. Something they can base their life on as solid ground. As something uncontestable.

The Lord once told me: We don't use the Lord to preach the Scriptures, we use the Scritpures to preach the Lord.

We do not base our life on the Scriptures, but our life is supposed to based on knowing Him. If you know Him you'll listen to Him. If you were truly listening to Him you would want others to know they too can listen to Him!!

Is that what you are after? Are you trying to hook other people up with Him or with you? Christ is called the Word of God because He will talk to us. He is the Rock - our solid ground. But you are making the Scriptures the Rock!! You are using the Lord to preach the Scriptures as the Word of God and are claming the Scriptures are our solid ground!! Again you are making the Scriptures your god.

That is our testimony.

My walk with God is not my testimony, it is my life!! And it is the life I would like for others too. So I tell people that they too can get to know the Lord, just like it says in the Bible.

Yet I have problems with some that are so interested in following the Scriptures that they don't really seem to understand what walking and talking with Him through out the day is really about. It's about God being your friend that never leaves you. So are you so into the Scriptures that you don't know that?

My friend is the Word of God in my life. The first words He spoke to me were "Read Your Bible". So I can't imagine anyone knowing Him who doesn't read their Bible. Yet we don't preach the Bible we use the Bible to preach the Lord!!

Some seem to have that backwards!!

God doesn't live in the Bible, He lives in us. The Bible does impart things to us, but the Lord does.

The Bible is not alive but the Word of God we are preaching is alive. He was in the beginning, and He was with God, and He is God. He is near us, in our hearts and in our mouth. That is the Word of God we are preaching, that Jesus Christ is our Lord becauase He is walking with us and talking with us, and giving us instructions.

If we have studied the Scritpures you should know this!!

That is; if we have studied the Scritpures we should know the Lord, and that He is the Word of God.

Deut 8:20 Like the nations that the Lord makes to perish before you, so shall you perish; because you would not listen to the voice of the Lord your God.

2 Kin 17:39 But the Lord your God you shall fear; and He will deliver you from the hand of all your enemies. However, they did not listen, but they did according to the earlier custom.

Those verses were to His choosen people. The had the law but made a habit out of not listening to the Lord. This is what happens today. People lift up the Bible when they should be lifting up the Lord. They preach the Bible when they should be preaching the Lord. They depend on their understanding of the words in the Bible and try to live by them, but do not listen to the Lord for their instructions. They want to tell everybody about Him according to their understanding of the Scriptures instead of leading people to Him so they can get to know Him.

Then I see them say:

The Word heals, meaning the Bible heals.

The Word imparts, meaning the Bible gives us imparts.

The Bible saves, the Bible is my friend, the Bible is the goal, and Bible is alive.

The Bible does not impart, save, heal, is not alive, is not the goal, and is not alive.

We are not preaching the Bible, so don't hold the Bible up over your head and say "I am going to preach the Word' meaning you are going to preach the Bible.

My Lord gave me specific instructions concerning this: He said, "Karl, I want you to preach the Word but not as it is so often preached today. I want you to preach I AM the Word of God."

That is what I am doing. I am preaching the I AM is the Word of God.

Perhaps some people will start making it about listening to Him and getting to know Him, like the Bible says!

 

[TasManOfGod]

Now lets see if I have got this right - Jesus is on first base - not Who

 

[Alive_Again]

There is not a special imparation from the Scriptures - which you call the Word. All imparation comes from Him who is the Word!!

Thinking that the impartation is from the Scriptures and not God is making the Scriptures your god!

Look Karl, I'll explain it to you one more time.

The Spirit agrees with the Word. He gives the impartation and the "vehicle" for our understanding (both in mind and in spirit) is the scriptures. The book is not some kind of magical force separate from God or His purposes. We're even told to receive them as they are written until we do understand them in our hearts.

The Bible is NOT my idol. It is offensive for you to imply this. I've suffered long with your insistence that my love for the scriptures is amiss. That I'm missing a true relationship with Jesus because I love the "Word".

If you know Him you'll listen to Him.
If you were truly listening to Him you would want others to know they too can listen to Him!!

That's exactly what I do Karl. I tell them that everyone can know the Lord. I tell them all about the Holy Spirit in the New Covenant. I tell them that by giving them the written Word of God... The holy scriptures. When I "speak" these things to a seeker, the Holy Spirit quickens that Word and brings life to the listener. If you don't have the scriptures to preach, you're just giving them your opinion.

The Lord said to teach men all things that I have commanded you.

Is that what you are after? Are you trying to hook other people up with Him or with you?

We're not even on the same page. If you were hearing Him, you would know where I stand regarding the scriptures and the Lord's instructions to give it first place in my life. First place because it honors Him to do what He said. The Holy Spirit does not leave and abandon us in this. He makes the Word alive and real and it is ALL GOOD.

But you are making the Scriptures the Rock!!

Really it is the revelation knowledge of them and the doing of them that is our rock. Notice I said the revelation. You have to have the sayings first. Then you get the revelation. The fact that we have these scriptures take the hit and miss out of the equation. When God tells you something, you "have His Word on it". His Words carry power.

You are using the Lord to preach the Scriptures as the Word of God and are claming the Scriptures are our solid ground!! Again you are making the Scriptures your god.

For all of your good intentions and whatever level of hearing you employ, you obviously have not had the revelation concerning God's written Word and the Holy Spirit.

Yet I have problems with some that are so interested in following the Scriptures that they don't really seem to understand what walking and talking with Him through out the day is really about.

Really?? Who do you think we pray to?

It's about God being your friend that never leaves you. So are you so into the Scriptures that you don't know that?

I'm so sorry Karl. Judge righteous judgment. That's all first grade Christianity. I'm not cutting you down. Hive credit where it is due. I''m a radical follower. God invited me into the picture long ago and I've fought this battle before on this same subject.

There's an important revelation that is so freeing that I would love for you to enjoy. It's about honoring God through His written Word.

Their is a physical world and their is a spiritual world. There is a physical and written Word of God and their is a spiritual Word of God. The Holy Spirit speaks what He hears. The Holy Spirit agrees with the written Word of God inasmuch as the intent of the Word in the context it was given. So it does go back to the heart condition of the listener. Apparently you keep making the determination that my heart condition is wrong and that I am idolatrous. Let's stop that right here. I'm not a baby Christian and I don't pray to a book. I DO want to honor God and His Word. I am able to do that through His Spirit. I've heard God say MANY times talk about HIS WORD in the study of His scriptures. I didn't make this up.

I was accused of this early in my walk. I laid down all knowledge at the altar of God. He led me right back to the "Word" and everything regarding making it your life (by His Spirit).

...that Jesus Christ is our Lord becauase He is walking with us and talking with us, and giving us instructions.

I know that because of the Word.

If we have studied the Scritpures you should know this!!

I'm going to share some things with you tomorrow.

People lift up the Bible when they should be lifting up the Lord.
They preach the Bible when they should be preaching the Lord.

If you're preaching the Bible, you're preaching the Lord and His gospel. He said: "Give them My Word!" That's no lie Karl.

They want to tell everybody about Him according to their understanding of the Scriptures instead of leading people to Him so they can get to know Him.

That's the whole point of the scriptures. Who led you to think otherwise? That's the tragedy of what you're preaching.

We are not preaching the Bible, so don't hold the Bible up over your head and say "I am going to preach the Word' meaning you are going to preach the Bible.

If you are moving in the Spirit and preaching the Bible, you ARE preaching the Word.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Those verses were to His choosen people. The had the law but made a habit out of not listening to the Lord. This is what happens today. People lift up the Bible when they should be lifting up the Lord. They preach the Bible when they should be preaching the Lord. They depend on their understanding of the words in the Bible and try to live by them, but do not listen to the Lord for their instructions. They want to tell everybody about Him according to their understanding of the Scriptures instead of leading people to Him so they can get to know Him.

The Law/Scriptures were started by the fact that people would rather read or listen to others rather than the Lord . People were invited to the mountaintop to hear what the Lord had to say directly . They said "no thanks ... tell Moses and he can tell us" . The same is more today than then . "What does the 'bible' say about this ?" "What did the preacher say ?" It is the all the same .

 

[K2K]

Now lets see if I have got this right - Jesus is on first base - not Who

No It's - Jesus (The Word -a who) is on first base - not the Scriptures (the Word - a what)

The Scriptures are like the rule book, which tell you the rules but are no more a part of actually playing the game than the rule book in baseball.

 

[K2K]

The Law/Scriptures were started by the fact that people would rather read or listen to others rather than the Lord . People were invited to the mountaintop to hear what the Lord had to say directly . They said "no thanks ... tell Moses and he can tell us" . The same is more today than then . "What does the 'bible' say about this ?" "What did the preacher say ?" It is the all the same .

Yes!!! Awesome post!!

We need to understand that we (His people) have a tendency to not what to listen to the Lord - then turn to Him and listen anyway

 

[Alive_Again]

The Law/Scriptures were started by the fact that people would rather read or listen to others rather than the Lord .

Ridiculous! Their were few prophets in the OT that God called upon to deliver scripture to His flock. The scriptures were a gift to mankind. In keeping them is great reward. Their was not even an opportunity in the OT for many people to hear the Lord except via their conscience. This was formed by having access to the testimonies of God. Abraham came from a culture where they had many gods. He knew no better until the Lord revealed Himself. He then became accountable for what he knew. It is the same with the scriptures. We are given them to learn what pleases or displeases God.

People were invited to the mountaintop to hear what the Lord had to say directly .

No, God called Moses, and then a few others.

They said "no thanks ... tell Moses and he can tell us" .

The people begged God to speak through Moses because they could not handle His awesomeness at the mount. Their own natures would not permit the comparison between His righteousness and their estrangement.

The same is more today than then . "What does the 'bible' say about this ?" "What did the preacher say ?" It is the all the same .

The thoughts of the Lord's heart are for all generations. You can be misled by spirits. If you do not have the written Word to compare what you're hearing and what is known of God, you're ripe for deception.

You'd better find out what the Bible says about things. What the preacher says (assuming he is hearing from God), is vital because the five fold ministry is given to keep the body swayed by every wind of doctrine. The Lord uses him or her to speak the heart of God. Not every believer has the same anointing and we need each other to become a whole body.

 

[K2K]

If you were hearing Him, you would know where I stand regarding the scriptures and the Lord's instructions to give it first place in my life. First place because it honors Him to do what He said. The Holy Spirit does not leave and abandon us in this. He makes the Word alive and real and it is ALL GOOD.

Jesus said of John the Baptist that he was the greatest man born of woman.

Yet He also asked the people what they went out to see? A reed blowing in the wind? And this because John told the people that Jesus was the One he told them about, then later he sent his disciples to see if Jesus was indeed the one he told them about.

If that happened with John, and he was the greatest of us, then does it happen to us?

We hear the Lord talking to us and we believe, and that faith is counted to us as righteousness. Then later we don't. Like Abraham who was told that his children would be like the stars in heaven but still had an Ishmael, we hear from the Lord then later make it about trying to follow the Law instead of listening to the Lord.

Do we understand that we too are blow around in the wind? Do we know where we stand?

We hear from the Word of God and say 'Yes- that is God who I heard from'.

Then we read the Scriptures, which have words the Word of God spoke to others, and say 'its the book that is alive'.

We do not preach the Scriptures (the Word), we preach the Lord (the Word). People are not saved because they search the Scriptures, they are saved because they hear the Lord speaking to them and believe.

If you want to honor the GREAT I AM, do what He says. Doing what "He said" is not believing He is the GREAT I AM, but rather the Great I was.

Preaching the Scriptures instead of preaching the Lord is preaching Him as the GREAT I WAS.

And we people have a tendancy to blow back and forth in the wind!!Sometimes saying God is, and sometimes saying God was. So is it me that doesn't understand where a person stands, or is it the person themselves that doesn't always understand?

And wow do we ever blow back and forth?

The Scriptures are the Word of God -no - no - the Lord is the Word of God

Or maybe the Scriptures are the Word of God - or is it the Lord is the Word of God

I live by what the Scriptures say - no maybe I should live by what the Lord says

I'll go back to doing what I think the Scriptures say - but then the Lord talked to me and said - so I should live by what He says.

I preach the Scriptures and that they save - or maybe I should preach the Lord and that He saves

The Scriptures impart something to me - or maybe it's the Lord that imparts things to me.

The Scirptures are our frim foundation - or is it the Lord that is our frim foundation?

Yeah - we are blowing in the wind alright - just like John

So is the Word on first base a who or a what -- or are you still trying to decided that?

The Lord - He is God - Preach Him!!!

And Yes I am hearing from the Lord. He told me to preach the Word but not as it is so often preached today. He told me to preach "I AM Word of God."

So please join me in preaching, "I AM is THE WORD OF GOD" according to what is written in the Scriptures. Thanks


Because we blow back and forth in the wind is why I wrote that it all sounds like Abbott and Costello:

Costello: Are you the manager?
Abbott: Yes.
Costello: You gonna be the coach too?
Abbott: Yes.
Costello: And you don't know the fellows' names.
Abbot: Well I should.
Costello: Well who's on first?
Abbott: Yes.
Costello: I mean the fellow's name.
Abbott: Who.
Costello: The guy on first.
Abbott: Who.
Costello: The first baseman.
Abbott: Who.
Costello: The guy playing...
Abbot: Who is on first!
Costello: I'm asking you who's on first.
Abbot: That's the man's name.
Costello: That's who's name.
Abbot: Yes

 

[Alive_Again]

Then we read the Scriptures, which have words the Word of God spoke to others, and say 'its the book that is alive'.

We have the written Word of God. The Holy Spirit agrees with it and ministers life to the hearer. We say that "it still speaks" because the Holy Spirit is here to quicken that Word of life to us.

We do not preach the Scriptures (the Word), we preach the Lord (the Word).

We proclaim the Lord through the scriptures. We preach how people will go to Hell if they do not receive the Lord. We give them scripture and the Holy Spirit convicts and leads the seeker to repentance. We proclaim the abundant life in the Kingdom of God by giving them the scriptures. The Holy Spirit gives the witness to the truth. There are no voices present other than ours. God uses it and even though they are our words, we speak His words by telling them the scripture. No other "voices" are present.

People are not saved because they search the Scriptures, they are saved because they hear the Lord speaking to them and believe.

As I mentioned, I was saved as I was searching the scriptures. I never prayed, but God read my heart.

If you want to honor the GREAT I AM, do what He says. Doing what "He said" is not believing He is the GREAT I AM, but rather the Great I was.

That's pretty confused. If I'm in a relationship and I tell my wife not to do certain things, or to do certain things in a given situation, she would be honoring my "ways" to do or not to do those things. The same goes for God. He does not have to directly tell us everything the Bible says. He gives us understanding as we read it (assuming we're willing and have a receiving heart). He quickens it or makes it alive to us. Their may or may not be any voices whatsoever involved. We do not follow voices, and the "voice" of the Lord is usually NOT a prophetic voice.

He speaks to our hearts (not necessarily in words) and He is faithful to do this.

Preaching the Scriptures instead of preaching the Lord is preaching Him as the GREAT I WAS.

I'm sorry you feel this way. Preaching the written Word lets people know that He lives and that He still does what He said He would do 2,000 years ago. There is no past tense to what He does.

Sometimes saying God is, and sometimes saying God was.

This is your thinking, not mine!

So is it me that doesn't understand where a person stands, or is it the person themselves that doesn't always understand?

I have no doubt where I stand. I've heard the instruction from the Lord regarding His Word many times.

Or maybe the Scriptures are the Word of God - or is it the Lord is the Word of God

The scriptures are the written Word of God.

I live by what the Scriptures say - no maybe I should live by what the Lord says

Do what He says as far as the prophetic voice. Al the other times you do what understanding you have of the written Word. I'm inclined to think that you don't do this since it is obvious you don't model your life in this way.

I preach the Scriptures and that they save - or maybe I should preach the Lord and that He saves

I think you are probably young in the Lord.

The Scriptures impart something to me - or maybe it's the Lord that imparts things to me.

We've already been down this road and it is the Holy Spirit. You seem to have selective hearing.

The Scirptures are our frim foundation - or is it the Lord that is our frim foundation?

It is the revelation of the Word of God and our doing them that provide the firm foundation.

So is the Word on first base a who or a what -- or are you still trying to decided that?

Again, I believe you are a very mistaken young Christian. This kind of self assured cockiness is just what a young Christian does. They take a little doctrine and make it into something else.

So please join me in preaching, "I AM is THE WORD OF GOD" according to what is written in the Scriptures. Thanks

We'll both stand accountable before Him for what we do. I'm prepared in the walk in the revelation I've been given. He has said that He is well pleased with me. You would be well advised not to offend others by your insistence that the preaching of the written Word is wrong or idolatrous.

 

[Alive_Again]

Go to this blog space the forum provided me for a few prophetic words the Lord had shared to His body some time ago. They are VERY edifying and speak of the Word of God and its place in our lives.

 

[K2K]

We have the written Word of God. The Holy Spirit agrees with it and ministers life to the hearer. We say that "it still speaks" because the Holy Spirit is here to quicken that Word of life to us.

The Holy Spirit doesn't "quicken that Word " meaning the Scriptures. He is there to speak to us!!!

Jn 16:13 But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He wil not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak.

So it (the Scriptures) do not speak to us, He the Spirit speaks to us.

And no where is it written that the Spirit " is here to quicken that Word of life to us."

The Scriptures are not the Word of life to us. If they were Jews would have had life by searching the Scriptures, but they didn't.

So you might say that ""it still speaks", but it never speaks, He speaks!!

That is what this whole thread is about.

If you honest think the Scirptures speak, who are making an idol out of the Scriptures. You are acting just like the Jews who thought that searching the Scriptures gave them life.

Now - it is written that "With their ears they barely hear". And to new believers, because they barely hear, the Lords voice often comes across as vague impressions, because the Lord is Spirit and we pick it up within us, even on our heart.

So if at first you may pick up the Lord talking to you, maybe about the Scriptures or maybe about something else (the testimonies vary), as an impression or "quickening" as some call the impression. That is barely hearing the Lord!!

And one the main reason for pointing out that the Scriptures don't actualy speak, is to get those that barely hear to start expecting to hear from Him more.

If you think the the Lord speaks through the Scriptures instead of speaking through the Holy Spirit, you will only be looking to hear from Him about what is written in the Scriptures. But your life is not made up just reading the Scriptures. We have work, school, play, relationships and so much more.

A person living by the Scriptures, reads the Scriptures (thinking they speak) then lives his life by his own understanding. Jesus Christ is not the Lord of his life, he still is.

A person living by following the Lord, studies the Scriptures because the Lord teaches him from them, but still they live their life in a conversation with the Lord. He helps them with their work, their school, their play, their relationships, and so much more.

I could try to explain what it is like, but though I explain it clearly but who can understand?

The Lord woke me up this morning, and I actually heard Him tell me to get out of bed. He had let me sleep in longer that I thought. He gave me a breif idea of what we were doing today. I heard Him tell me that. He told me to only were a t-shirt when I was thinking about something heavier, because He told me it was going to be warmer today that I thought. It was.

He asked me to sit down and pray "His" (the Lord's prayer), and talked to me abit about it (and later in the day expounded on it) and my current attitude. He didn't even have me open my Bible this morning, because He wanted to talk about how I have been feeling lately, which was a bit unthankfull during this time of thanksgiving. He pointed out how my sisiter and her family, though they didn't know Him like me, were more thankful than me.

Now all this is all fairly boring, but that is how a day with the Lord starts off for me. I hear frim Him about a dozen times a day, but the first time is morning was the first hour I was up.

Now most mornings He has me in the Scriptures and studying some part of them. Then He talks to me on them. Yet today He didn't have me open them at all until He asked me to post this evening and had me get the verse above. (Jn 16:13)

His main teaching for me today was about the Lord's Prayer. Specifically He talked aboat asking for His will to be done on earth as it is in heaven. Do you know how everyone is going to be doing His will in heaven? We are all going to hear His voice talking to us everytime we turn to the left or to the right. So if you are asking to His will to be done hear on Earth like in heaven you are asking to hear an instruction from Him everytime you turn to the left or the right! And you are not going to be reading your Bible to find that out!

Is 30:21 Your ears will hear a word behind you, "This is the way, walk in it", whenever you turn to the right or tot he left.

We are not preaching the Bible as the Word of God we are to get to know, but we are preaching the Lord (who will be talking to us in heaven) as the Word of God we are to get to know!! Just like it is written in the Bible.


The Bible "it" does not speak to you, the Spirit of God "He" speaks to you!!

 

[Alive_Again]

The Holy Spirit doesn't "quicken that Word " meaning the Scriptures. He is there to speak to us!!!

My soul cleaveth unto the dust: quicken thou me according to thy word.
Psalms 119:25 (KJV)

I am afflicted very much: quicken me, O Lord, according unto thy word.
Psalms 119:107 (KJV)

Hear my voice according unto thy lovingkindness: O Lord, quicken me according to thy judgment.
Psalms 119:149 (KJV)

Quicken means to "make alive". That's what the Holy Spirit does. He makes the written Word alive.

So it (the Scriptures) do not speak to us, He the Spirit speaks to us.

That's what I've been saying all along.

And no where is it written that the Spirit " is here to quicken that Word of life to us."

Uh huh.

The Scriptures are not the Word of life to us. If they were Jews would have had life by searching the Scriptures, but they didn't.

If the Jews were seeking God they would have had the witness that Jesus was the Messiah. God might have used the scriptures to speak to their heart.

So you might say that ""it still speaks", but it never speaks, He speaks!!

You're not "hearing". I've said this all along. The scriptures or the written Word have their place and you are ignorant of many things without them. A dozen times a day for the Lord to speak prophetically to you. That's fine, but that leaves a lot of the day without a "voice" from the Lord, doesn't it?

If you honest think the Scirptures speak, who are making an idol out of the Scriptures. You are acting just like the Jews who thought that searching the Scriptures gave them life.

I said this figuratively and have clarified this a number of times. I'm not acting like a Jewish unbeliever. I'm obeying the Lord who has me meditating in them day and night. (Take it up with Him. This was His instruction.)

...the Lords voice often comes across as vague impressions, because the Lord is Spirit and we pick it up within us, even on our heart.

I'm not acknowledging vague. It is the Lord that provides the revelation. He controls the measure to the seeker.

...an impression or "quickening" as some call the impression. That is barely hearing the Lord!!

It is the Lord who chooses the manner or degree that He speaks. The Lord has told me not to complain about my walk. Just to press in.

...to get those that barely hear to start expecting to hear from Him more.

That is good. We are to be expectant.

If you think the the Lord speaks through the Scriptures instead of speaking through the Holy Spirit, you will only be looking to hear from Him about what is written in the Scriptures.

Not much point in answering this type of statement again. You already have the answer. I'm not only looking for Him in the Word. He's right here on the inside.

But your life is not made up just reading the Scriptures. We have work, school, play, relationships and so much more.

You're the one who makes the distinction of some kind of disconnect because I choose to look expectantly when I read the written Word. I enjoy my walk with the Lord everywhere.

A person living by the Scriptures, reads the Scriptures (thinking they speak) then lives his life by his own understanding. Jesus Christ is not the Lord of his life, he still is.

That is not the talk of faith! It depends on your state of renewal. You make an errant deduction. That is the whole issue with your philosophy. You assume that because people seek and receive revelation by means of the written Word, quickened by the Holy Spirit, that we're not fully partaking of or submitting to His Lordship.

A person living by following the Lord, studies the Scriptures because the Lord teaches him from them, but still they live their life in a conversation with the Lord. He helps them with their work, their school, their play, their relationships, and so much more.

You see their is no disconnect.

We are all going to hear His voice talking to us everytime we turn to the left or to the right. So if you are asking to His will to be done hear on Earth like in heaven you are asking to hear an instruction from Him everytime you turn to the left or the right! And you are not going to be reading your Bible to find that out!

That is not the reality, but that is a good prayer and we should hunger to hear more and in everything we do. We have spiritual senses and our partaking is not always "hearing".

The Bible says that Jesus is made unto us wisdom. It says that He speaks to us and writes His laws on our hearts. The Bible is full of verses on how He guides and how we are to believe even when we don't perceive the "next step". That is the walk of faith.

We are not preaching the Bible as the Word of God we are to get to know, but we are preaching the Lord...

We get to know the Lord more and more even through the scriptures. We preach the Bible as the Word of God, because that revelation is forever settled in Heaven. We base our lives within these truths.

Can I assume that you didn't read the long prophetic word on the blog I just created on the forum? It tells you of how the Lord takes our time in the written Word of God.

It's very edifying.

 

[New_Wineskin]

If you want to honor the GREAT I AM, do what He says. Doing what "He said" is not believing He is the GREAT I AM, but rather the Great I was.

Preaching the Scriptures instead of preaching the Lord is preaching Him as the GREAT I WAS.

More accurately "THE GREAT I WAS TO OTHERS" .

What did Jesus say or quote ? "Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God" . It is not about what *was* spoken but what He *is* speaking now to the individual . It is not about writings of which we no longer have the originals to verify authenticity but about a personal message . And , how many people are living off bread made thousands of years ago ? In Hebrews , the author emphasizes "today , if you hear his voice ..." - not "today , if you read what was spoken to others a long time ago in a language not your own ..." . You can go up to the mountaintop or have someone go up for you and *wish* they are giving you a clear interpretation of it .

Tradition and Law or personal relationship .

 

[dkbwarrior]

More accurately "THE GREAT I WAS TO OTHERS" .

What did Jesus say or quote ? "Man does not live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God" . It is not about what *was* spoken but what He *is* speaking now to the individual . It is not about writings of which we no longer have the originals to verify authenticity but about a personal message . And , how many people are living off bread made thousands of years ago ? In Hebrews , the author emphasizes "today , if you hear his voice ..." - not "today , if you read what was spoken to others a long time ago in a language not your own ..." . You can go up to the mountaintop or have someone go up for you and *wish* they are giving you a clear interpretation of it .

Tradition and Law or personal relationship .

Context, context, context my friend. When Jesus said that during His temptation in the wilderness, He was quoting from the Old Testament scriptures, and then proceeded to quote two more passages from the Old Testament scriptures. It seems obvious to me that the statement along with it's context is surely saying that the Word of God is the quickened scriptures.

Not to mention that Jesus called the writings of Moses the Word of God when He said this:

9And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
-Mark 7:9-13

Truly it remains the great I WAS (to an individual) until the Holy Spirit quickens the Word to us. But it becomes the great I AM (to an individual), when it is quickened to our understanding by Holy Spirit. Yet it still remains the Word of God.

Peace...

 

[Alive_Again]

It is not about what *was* spoken but what He *is* speaking now to the individual . It is not about writings of which we no longer have the originals to verify authenticity but about a personal message . And , how many people are living off bread made thousands of years ago ?

The early church lacked the strength of having New Covenant scriptures. They were not given a complete picture of the gospel, but were instructed by the Holy Spirit through anointed foundational apostles, and prophets (who were given new scriptures), followed by the rest of the five fold ministry.

Even Peter lacked an understanding of the purity of the message of the gospel, as was evident when Paul rebuked him for trying to make "Gentile" believers live as Jews. Paul received the gospel directly from the Lord. It was the church's responsibility to listen to his anointed preaching and teaching, and eventually obtain copies of his epistles, which many were considered scripture.

Scripture, according to Jewish tradition, is authoritative and subsequent "revelation" is to be compared to it to verify authenticity. Any spirit can preach a "word", many sounding very much like the Lord. Since deceiving spirits "cloud" the issue and the spiritual environment, it is important for believers to meditate on that which is spoken under the anointing. Furthermore, the promises of God often do not come to fruition in the heart of the believer immediately. Many of these take time to grow and bear fruit in the heart.

The anointing within teaches us how to abide. It is not the end-all in what we are to walk in. Others receive revelation vital to the church and it is up to the church to bear witness to this in their spirits. No one need teach us how to abide in the anointing, but we do need teachers and other ministers of the gospel to walk in the fulness of what God has for the church..

The prophetic word has its place, but this is not the primary voice believers who walk in faith adhere to. If you had a voice telling you what to do, even in the small details, you'd no longer be walking by faith.

God wants to adhere to and receive the Spirit of revelation in the knowledge of Him by means of meditation of existing revelation given to the church, as well as that given to us individually. What we get is compared to the scripture, and as that one prophetic word said in my forum blog page, when someone lays something on our foundation, ww know when it is amiss.

People also preach a "mixed word" that has both truth and error in it. The reliance on only the prophetic word IS an error. The reliance on only scripture (even quickened) as a means of guidance is ALSO an error. I have never advocated this, but you come back to it as though it is a default condition for those who love the written Word of God, and the quickening of it by the Holy Spirit.

Preaching a message inviting a reliance of hearing God is a good one, but when you mix it by saying that the prophetic word is the only, or even the primary way to "hear", you preach error.

Add in terms like idolatry, false prophets, and wrong doing for preaching the scriptures (as though we don't preach Jesus), and you've got an offensive mixture of presumptuous "truth" which should be opposed and corrected.

 

[K2K]

My soul cleaveth unto the dust: quicken thou me according to thy word.
Psalms 119:25 (KJV)

I am afflicted very much: quicken me, O Lord, according unto thy word.
Psalms 119:107 (KJV)

Hear my voice according unto thy lovingkindness: O Lord, quicken me according to thy judgment.
Psalms 119:149 (KJV)

Quicken means to "make alive". That's what the Holy Spirit does. He makes the written Word alive.

Take a close look at the above verses. What is being quickened? Is it the Scritpures or the person that is being quickened?

It is written "quicken me" - So it is the person the Holy Spirit quickens, not the Scriptures!!

To make an idol, we take an object, consider that object to be alive, then give that object attributes of God. Are we making an idol out of the Bible? The Scriptures are the same everyday you pick them up, but sometimes the Lord talks to you about them, so they might seem alive if His voice only comes across very faintly to you. Also remember to test the spirit, because the Spirit of God is not the only spirit willing to talk to you about them. Paul wrote that we know there are no such things as idols here on earth. Here on earth we have objects, so the considering the object as gods is spiritual. And Paul wrote that there were indeed many gods (see 1 Cor 8)

The Holy Spirit has no interest in bringing the Scriptures to life, His is interested in bring you to life!!!

So if you are willing to listen, the Lord will give you instructions or teachings ( a word) by speaking to you.

For example: When I first glanced at the response above to my earlier thread, I thought maybe I had gotten something wrong. The Scriptures are good for reproof, so I asked the Lord and He quickly pointed out what I explained above. That is that all the verse quoted above were concerned with quicken the person, not the Scriptures.

"quicken thou me" - "quicken me" - "quicken me according to thy judgment"

We should want the Lord to quicken us!! We should want His instructions, teachings, and to understanding how He judges things.

The Lord has no interest in bring the Book to life, He does however have and interest in bring you to life!! So ask Him to quicken you