The Devil is Bad?

[SonOfLilith]

Okay, now I know this will be an easy question for you guys but it's not so crystal clear cut for me, anyway.

The only evidence we have for Satan's evil is frankly God's word and his word have not been worth to much. He's shown a remarkable inconsistency in his actions and words, and he's hardly above lying or dishonest conduct. Now I am NOT debating nor am I going to try and make any arguments to defend myself or my teachings or religion here, I am just asking a simple question based of the things below I have seen in the bible.

•Satan, like Prometheus, gave knowledge to humanity by giving Eve the fruit from the forbidden tree. Because of Satan, humanity gained knowledge of good and evil, according to Genesis. Since we couldn't have possessed knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit, Adam and Eve couldn't have known that eating the fruit was evil, so it seems a little harsh to punish them as severely as God did. Satan gave humans true capacity for moral judgment, unlike God, who simply expected everyone to mindlessly obey his orders.

•There is no biblical record of Satan engaging in the murder of torture of any human being, unlike God, who is guilty (and proudly guilty) of commiting genocide.

•There is no biblical record of Satan ever ordering someone to kill someone else, unlike God, who has repeatedly demanded the deaths of those who commit even the smallest of offenses.

•Satan will not be holding a massively dramatic ceremony full of blood and death for the return of his son to Earth. God apparently will.

What exactly has he done that was so evil that I am missing in the bible? I have read it cover to back, numerous times and yet I keep misisng the chapter.

 

[Defcon]

Okay, now I know this will be an easy question for you guys but it's not so crystal clear cut for me, anyway.

The only evidence we have for Satan's evil is frankly God's word and his word have not been worth to much. He's shown a remarkable inconsistency in his actions and words, and he's hardly above lying or dishonest conduct. Now I am NOT debating nor am I going to try and make any arguments to defend myself or my teachings or religion here, I am just asking a simple question based of the things below I have seen in the bible.

•Satan, like Prometheus, gave knowledge to humanity by giving Eve the fruit from the forbidden tree. Because of Satan, humanity gained knowledge of good and evil, according to Genesis. Since we couldn't have possessed knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit, Adam and Eve couldn't have known that eating the fruit was evil, so it seems a little harsh to punish them as severely as God did. Satan gave humans true capacity for moral judgment, unlike God, who simply expected everyone to mindlessly obey his orders.

•There is no biblical record of Satan engaging in the murder of torture of any human being, unlike God, who is guilty (and proudly guilty) of commiting genocide.

•There is no biblical record of Satan ever ordering someone to kill someone else, unlike God, who has repeatedly demanded the deaths of those who commit even the smallest of offenses.

•Satan will not be holding a massively dramatic ceremony full of blood and death for the return of his son to Earth. God apparently will.

What exactly has he done that was so evil that I am missing in the bible? I have read it cover to back, numerous times and yet I keep misisng the chapter.

If God's Word isn't worth much, and therefore can't be trusted... How can you know that Satan exists, or that he acted in a certain way, or that God acted in a certain way? Please explain, as it appears you dimiss the God's word one minute, then use it to draw conclusions the next.

 

[Reborn_in_Christ]

Now I'll admit that I'm no theologian, but I do know this much. The reason why Satan was thrown down from Heaven was that he beleived himself to be on par or above God in authority. If God created everything, including the angels... how can the creation be greater than the creator? As far as Satan giving humanity the knowledge of good and evil... he didn't really. What he did was facilitate the acqusition of this knowledge. Out of all the things that God told Adam and Eve they COULD do, He only told them that they couldn't do ONE thing. Satan tempted Eve into doing the one thing that God said she couldn't do. Once again, he was purposely defying Gods will. So then yes, humanity gained the knowledge of good and evil. This is hardly like fire. Think of all the things that then came out of the knowledge. The first being shame. Remember when Adam hid from God because he knew he was naked? Shame. Plus with the knowledge of evil, humanity was now able to wage war against itself. God just wanted humanity to love Him, that's it. He gave us the world and asked only one thing in return... one simple thing and someone that envied His power came and messed it all up. So it wasn't God that commited those genocides, we did it to ourselves for often the pettiest of reasons like skin color.

 

[DArceri]

What exactly has he done that was so evil that I am missing in the bible? I have read it cover to back, numerous times and yet I keep misisng the chapter.

HE LIED TO EVE. That was the beginning of selfishness and deciet for mankind. Because of the knowledge obtained from this lie, there are liars, decievers, thieves, pain, hunger, sickness. etc....What is the root cause of this evil world? SELF-CENTEREDNESS. Self-centeredness causes wars, bickering, hatred, you name it.....God is trying to restore that self-centeredness back to God-centeredness, but because He gave everyone a free will, its up to you whose path you want to follow, satans or Gods. In the end, your god is either satan himself or that of God. ....BUT CHOOSE WISELY, BECAUSE IF SATIN IS THE LORD OF LIES, WHAT MAKES YOU WANT TO TRUST HIM ABOUT ANYTHING? ESPECIALLY YOUR ETERNAL LIFE.

p.s YOU OBVIOUSLY WORSHIP SATAN, SO, WHAT HAS SATAN PROMISED YOU???? AND WHY DO YOU BELIEVE HIM????

 

[SonOfLilith]

If God's Word isn't worth much, and therefore can't be trusted... How can you know that Satan exists, or that he acted in a certain way, or that God acted in a certain way? Please explain, as it appears you dimiss the God's word one minute, then use it to draw conclusions the next.

I never said I did.I don't believe he exist, I am not a devil worshipper or anything.

Now I'll admit that I'm no theologian, but I do know this much. The reason why Satan was thrown down from Heaven was that he beleived himself to be on par or above God in authority. If God created everything, including the angels... how can the creation be greater than the creator? As far as Satan giving humanity the knowledge of good and evil... he didn't really. What he did was facilitate the acqusition of this knowledge. Out of all the things that God told Adam and Eve they COULD do, He only told them that they couldn't do ONE thing. Satan tempted Eve into doing the one thing that God said she couldn't do. Once again, he was purposely defying Gods will. So then yes, humanity gained the knowledge of good and evil. This is hardly like fire. Think of all the things that then came out of the knowledge. The first being shame. Remember when Adam hid from God because he knew he was naked? Shame. Plus with the knowledge of evil, humanity was now able to wage war against itself. God just wanted humanity to love Him, that's it. He gave us the world and asked only one thing in return... one simple thing and someone that envied His power came and messed it all up. So it wasn't God that commited those genocides, we did it to ourselves for often the pettiest of reasons like skin color.

I know this story but I don't understand why this knowledge was bad. Knowledge is knowledge and knowledge is always good, I would always rather be intellegent then ignorant plus with this knowledge we where able to make true moral judgement. Surely this is worth something right, I am not trying to debate I just still do not see the evil in this.

HE LIED TO EVE. That was the beginning of selfishness and deciet for mankind. Because of the knowledge obtained from this lie, there are liars, decievers, thieves, pain, hunger, sickness. etc....What is the root cause of this evil world? SELF-CENTEREDNESS. Self-centeredness causes wars, bickering, hatred, you name it.....God is trying to restore that self-centeredness back to God-centeredness, but because He gave everyone a free will, its up to you whose path you want to follow, satans or Gods. In the end, your god is either satan himself or that of God. ....BUT CHOOSE WISELY, BECAUSE IF SATIN IS THE LORD OF LIES, WHAT MAKES YOU WANT TO TRUST HIM ABOUT ANYTHING? ESPECIALLY YOUR ETERNAL LIFE.

Why God-centernes? Is this not just as arrogant as self-centeredness? I would much rather follow a god who did what was best for us and not himself. Also how is the devil the lord of lies, God himself too is not above lying. Once again not trying to debate but I am missing where this is coming from.

 

[Reborn_in_Christ]

HE LIED TO EVE. That was the beginning of selfishness and deciet for mankind. Because of the knowledge obtained from this lie, there are liars, decievers, thieves, pain, hunger, sickness. etc....What is the root cause of this evil world? SELF-CENTEREDNESS. Self-centeredness causes wars, bickering, hatred, you name it.....God is trying to restore that self-centeredness back to God-centeredness, but because He gave everyone a free will, its up to you whose path you want to follow, satans or Gods. In the end, your god is either satan himself or that of God. ....BUT CHOOSE WISELY, BECAUSE IF SATIN IS THE LORD OF LIES, WHAT MAKES YOU WANT TO TRUST HIM ABOUT ANYTHING? ESPECIALLY YOUR ETERNAL LIFE.

p.s YOU OBVIOUSLY WORSHIP SATAN, SO, WHAT HAS SATAN PROMISED YOU???? AND WHY DO YOU BELIEVE HIM????

I don't think he worships Satan as much as he's trying to de-demonize Satan's image.


SonofLilith, knowledge itself is neither good nor bad... it is indifferent. It's exactly the same thing as the arguement that guns don't kill people, people do. Once again, knowledge is a facilitator. It's what people do with it that can be considered good or bad. The thing about humanity is that it's notorious for finding the worst in everything. Case in point, the atom bomb. Yes it can provide us with clean (relatively) energy but you have to remember what it's original intention was... to kill people on a scale never seen. If humanity could have taken that knowledge of good and evil and used the good and only been aware of the evil we would in a very different world than we are.

 

[Digit]

I never said I did.I don't believe he exist, I am not a devil worshipper or anything.

Your faith icon and screen-name say otherwise.

In answer to your question though, the reason we have sin, is because of that knowledge. Sin causes pain, despair, agony, strife, unhappiness, hurt, wrath. God loves us, and wanted us to avoid these things, the Devil hates God and wants us to suffer.

There aren't many references to eternal death in the Bible, but there are some. If that sounds appealing to you, continue on your present path.

You should read The Screwtape Letters. It's a good book, but as a Satanist you will find it a sad story, since the main character is saved and goes to Heaven.

I will pray that you see otherwise though.

God bless,

Digit

 

[DArceri]

I don't think he worships Satan as much as he's trying to de-demonize Satan's image.

I don't think you noticed his icon. He is a professed satanist. That to me means he is worshiping satan. His purpose it appears is to defend his god.

 

[DArceri]

Why God-centernes? Is this not just as arrogant as self-centeredness?

Is not God The Creator and you are the created? Does He not have the right to do as He sees fit? He can destroy all of mankind with a simple snap of his finger. If He was evil, why wouldn't he just be done with us sinners. That takes patience and and kindness. Because God does not lie.... He promised a Savior and He came....He sent His Son to reconcile those who wish to be reconciled TO HIM. God is giving the world time to come to Jesus. But there will be a time (the 2nd coming of Christ) when He will send His Son back as both judge and jury. Don't waste your time on your prince of liars, satan the deciever.

I would much rather follow a god who did what was best for us and not himself.

This is called self-centeredness. You want to become a god YOURSELF, is that it? Good luck. I will pity you, but yet pray for you. Don't fall into satan's trap. Again, the "it's all about me attitude" is what has created wars and destruction in the world.

Also how is the devil the lord of lies, God himself too is not above lying. Once again not trying to debate but I am missing where this is coming from.

If you truly were told this by your satan friends, I can give you only one piece of advice ....RUN !! Get rid of those friends because they will be out for themselves too. When you need them the most they will bail on you because they will think of themselves first. Remember, they were told the same lies as you.

 

[SonOfLilith]

I don't think he worships Satan as much as he's trying to de-demonize Satan's image.


SonofLilith, knowledge itself is neither good nor bad... it is indifferent. It's exactly the same thing as the arguement that guns don't kill people, people do. Once again, knowledge is a facilitator. It's what people do with it that can be considered good or bad. The thing about humanity is that it's notorious for finding the worst in everything. Case in point, the atom bomb. Yes it can provide us with clean (relatively) energy but you have to remember what it's original intention was... to kill people on a scale never seen. If humanity could have taken that knowledge of good and evil and used the good and only been aware of the evil we would in a very different world than we are.

Maybe labelling what my religion was was a bad move. *bites lip* Technically I am an agnostic, I labeleld myself Satanist since most of my life views are basically Laveyan, nothing more nothing less.

Good point, we do have free will though, we SHOULD be able to use our knowledge for good and evil, not hide away from it like an innocent child. And yes I agree with you it would be a much better world. Anyway great response, I appreciate it.

Your faith icon and screen-name say otherwise.

In answer to your question though, the reason we have sin, is because of that knowledge. Sin causes pain, despair, agony, strife, unhappiness, hurt, wrath. God loves us, and wanted us to avoid these things, the Devil hates God and wants us to suffer.

There aren't many references to eternal death in the Bible, but there are some. If that sounds appealing to you, continue on your present path.

You should read The Screwtape Letters. It's a good book, but as a Satanist you will find it a sad story, since the main character is saved and goes to Heaven.

I will pray that you see otherwise though.

God bless,

Digit

I picked my screen name because it sounds cool, hehe I was going to call myself "Powdered Toast Man" but it sounded a little childish at a second guess. =P

Sin is disobeying God why would God make disobeying a tangible harming thing. Anyway, I am asking questions to answers not good, bleh. I still don't see the evil in it though.

That was uncalled for..

Once again that was uncalled for, you seem to be under the impression I live in some dark evil dwelling loving everything evil and shunning all the good things in the world. I am not evil or anything atleast by the common held view of it, by the Christian sense I am quite evil I think.

Why did that sound more demeaning then nice? I appreciate people praying for me, it shows carying and compassion but the way in which you said it sounded condesending.

I don't think you noticed his icon. He is a professed satanist. That to me means he is worshiping satan. His purpose it appears is to defend his god.

I don't have a God, just asking a question on WHY he was evil, if I never wrote I was a Satanist, this would not be an issue, if you look back at some odler post I asked OTHER questions.

Is not God The Creator and you are the created? Does He not have the right to do as He sees fit? He can destroy all of mankind with a simple snap of his finger. If He was evil, why wouldn't he just be done with us sinners. That takes patience and and kindness. Because God does not lie.... He promised a Savior and He came....He sent His Son to reconcile those who wish to be reconciled TO HIM. God is giving the world time to come to Jesus. But there will be a time (the 2nd coming of Christ) when He will send His Son back as both judge and jury. Don't waste your time on your prince of liars, satan the deciever.
This is called self-centeredness. You want to become a god YOURSELF, is that it? Good luck. I will pity you, but yet pray for you. Don't fall into satan's trap. Again, the "it's all about me attitude" is what has created wars and destruction in the world.

If you truly were told this by your satan friends, I can give you only one piece of advice ....RUN !! Get rid of those friends because they will be out for themselves too. When you need them the most they will bail on you because they will think of themselves first. Remember, they were told the same lies as you.

I think we left the topic of my original question. Also just for reference, the argument he is the creator does not work for me, creating me does not warrant my respect. Also God is not above lieing, didn't he tell Abraham to kill his son Issac as a test of his faith, granted he didn't make him go through with it but it was a lie nontheless.

No I don't want to become a God, to much work.

Actually all my friends are Christians with the occasional athiest. =) Christians I have found are often the nicest people, we just don't talk about my beliefs and we get along fin, I even go to church with them occasionally when they ask. I came to my beliefs on my own. I agree with you though, if someone came to me and told me to worship the devil i think I probaly would run since people who literally worship him are just trying to be evil, not becuase they truly believe in him.

 

[BigNorsk]

Satan killed the entire human race.

Doing so was what he considered winning.

Only God knew a way to still save man, Satan would have figured it was impossible to do so, Satan doesn't know everything, he might think he's God, but he's not.

God didn't kill anyone. Those you read about in the Bible, they were already dead, walking dead, just waiting for judgement. God uses their story to bring people back to life. God gave us life in the beginning. God does everything possible, even chosing to die himself to bring us back to life.

Satan encourages people to misunderstand the whole thing and so remain dead.

Marv

 

[DArceri]

Sin is disobeying God why would God make disobeying a tangible harming thing.

Everything we do in life holds consequences. Usually, when you choose to sin you choose to suffer. It always comes back to bite you.

I appreciate people praying for me, it shows carying and compassion but the way in which you said it sounded condesending.

Prayer is meant for friends as well as enemies of God. I do pray that you come to know who God really is. Your ideas of Him are so wrong its scary.

I don't have a God

Technically, the person you serve is your god. If you serve only yourself, then you are your own god.

the argument he is the creator does not work for me, creating me does not warrant my respect.

Unfortunately, if God does not warrant your respect, you will never understand who God is and what His purpose is for you in life. Essentually, you have no purpose other than to please yourself and then die in your sins.

Also God is not above lieing, didn't he tell Abraham to kill his son Issac as a test of his faith, granted he didn't make him go through with it but it was a lie nontheless

How is that considered lying? Granted it was an extreme test of faith, but through Abraham, a whole nation was born, even the BABY JESUS. God's whole plan for man's salvation rested on Abraham's faithfullness. Thus, God had to give him the ultimate test. You see, if you don't understand the why's of God's decisions, you will never understand God Himself...... Also, God is incapable of lying as a matter of fact. It goes against His character.

Your problem is that you have the wrong perspective of who God is. I think you need to focus on reading the Gospels first before you read the Old Testiment.... The New Testiment puts everything into perspective of why God disciplines and blesses people in the O.T. If you have already read the N.T., I challenge you to read it again with a fresh mind (don't bring your preconcieved notions into it). If you do that, you will realize, GOD IS LOVE. I would start with the Gospel of John first. Read it two or three times first until you understand it. If you do that you will see what I mean about God is Love. You owe it to yourself to do that.

God does have a purpose for you and He is calling you but you are not listening. It makes Him sad too, for He has no pleasure that anyone should die in ther sins. He reaches out to anyone who wants to HEAR His call.

 

[Digit]

If you turn away from God, you are standing with the world, and the world bathes in sin.

The reason God didn't want us to experience these things, is because they cause the problems I outlined above. You think that God told us not to be adulteres, because he wanted to ruin all our fun, or because he knew that it caused hurt, anger, grief, jealousy and hatred? Because having someone be unfaithful is such fun right? Do you think he said don't murder, to rob us of all the fun it is being killed? You know, being killed is great isn't it? What about not stealing? Do you like having things stolen? Would you like to live in a world where you don't have to worry about security at all? Imagine that. No keys, no locks, no worry. It's almost an entire facet of our lives that would change for the better.

Just based off of the fact that God wanted to protect us from these things, and give us free will to live life in a purely good world, and the Devil wanted to expose us to all this anguish and torment, is enough to convince me that only God cares about us, and the Devil will lead us astray to our oblivion.

You say you don't have a God, but you do. You just choose to ignore him. Our lives will all hit low points, and when mine does I am reminded of the fact that somewhere I have not listened to what God has said, and I need to go and find out what it was, which helps me put it back on track.

Digit

 

[SonOfLilith]

Satan killed the entire human race.

Doing so was what he considered winning.

Only God knew a way to still save man, Satan would have figured it was impossible to do so, Satan doesn't know everything, he might think he's God, but he's not.

God didn't kill anyone. Those you read about in the Bible, they were already dead, walking dead, just waiting for judgement. God uses their story to bring people back to life. God gave us life in the beginning. God does everything possible, even chosing to die himself to bring us back to life.

Satan encourages people to misunderstand the whole thing and so remain dead.

Marv

Hmm, never thought of it that way before. However if God gave everyone the ability to be forgotten, why not wait until they died naturally. Heck maybe one of the first born of Egypt would have grown up to love and worship him.

Everything we do in life holds consequences. Usually, when you choose to sin you choose to suffer. It always comes back to bite you.

Prayer is meant for friends as well as enemies of God. I do pray that you come to know who God really is. Your ideas of Him are so wrong its scary.


Technically, the person you serve is your god. If you serve only yourself, then you are your own god.


Unfortunately, if God does not warrant your respect, you will never understand who God is and what His purpose is for you in life. Essentually, you have no purpose other than to please yourself and then die in your sins.

.
How is that considered lying? Granted it was an extreme test of faith, but through Abraham, a whole nation was born, even the BABY JESUS. God's whole plan for man's salvation rested on Abraham's faithfullness. Thus, God had to give him the ultimate test. You see, if you don't understand the why's of God's decisions, you will never understand God Himself...... Also, God is incapable of lying as a matter of fact. It goes against His character.

Your problem is that you have the wrong perspective of who God is. I think you need to focus on reading the Gospels first before you read the Old Testiment.... The New Testiment puts everything into perspective of why God disciplines and blesses people in the O.T. If you have already read the N.T., I challenge you to read it again with a fresh mind (don't bring your preconcieved notions into it). If you do that, you will realize, GOD IS LOVE. I would start with the Gospel of John first. Read it two or three times first until you understand it. If you do that you will see what I mean about God is Love. You owe it to yourself to do that. God does have a purpose for you and He is calling you but you are not listening. It makes Him sad too, for He has no pleasure that anyone should die in ther sins. He is reaching out to anyone who wants to HEAR His call.

Then I guess I am my own god, but it is not as if I am a selfish person, I care for other more then I care for myself, although I could never bow or kneel before anyone.

No, my only purpose is not to please myself, if that was my life purpose I would be a very happy boy. My caring for people has actually tended to hurt me quite abit in the past.

I have seen many time sin the bible where God has lied or contradicted himself.

I read the bible frequently although most of my notions where when I was "finding" myself. I was raised in a Christian family but God and Jesus was never really drilled into my head. One day thoguh I decided to grab the family bible and start reading hoping to find something grand but found too many things I disagreed with and my own proverbial boogeyman. I continue to read the bible though with a fresh mind everytime but see the same thing each time.

If you turn away from God, you are standing with the world, and the world bathes in sin.

The reason God didn't want us to experience these things, is because they cause the problems I outlined above. You think that God told us not to be adulteres, because he wanted to ruin all our fun, or because he knew that it caused hurt, anger, grief, jealousy and hatred? Because having someone be unfaithful is such fun right? Do you think he said don't murder, to rob us of all the fun it is being killed? You know, being killed is great isn't it? What about not stealing? Do you like having things stolen? Would you like to live in a world where you don't have to worry about security at all? Imagine that. No keys, no locks, no worry. It's almost an entire facet of our lives that would change for the better.

Just based off of the fact that God wanted to protect us from these things, and give us free will to live life in a purely good world, and the Devil wanted to expose us to all this anguish and torment, is enough to convince me that only God cares about us, and the Devil will lead us astray to our oblivion.

You say you don't have a God, but you do. You just choose to ignore him. Our lives will all hit low points, and when mine does I am reminded of the fact that somewhere I have not listened to what God has said, and I need to go and find out what it was, which helps me put it back on track.

Digit

I would rather have experienced then live in an eternal bliss. I know this may sound weird but we would never have been able to appreciate what we had should bad never have been experienced, I don't want to be protected from the things I understand but to embrace them and learn them.

WHy is this starting to feel like a debate to me. Maybe I just am not recieving the answers I wanted, *shrugs* I don't know.

 

[Digit]

So, basically you would rather experience everything in life, and then die and suffer eternal anguish, than life a life of pure goodness, (or as we do now, TRY to live that life) and experience eternal bliss with God?

That is, in the most basic form, the choices offered. Choosing the former to me, is a very odd decision. Not however, that I don't see how it can be an appealing decision, as I lived like that for many years. These years just made it harder to live life the way it should be lived through God.

Can I ask, what answers do YOU WANT out of interest? We have given you reasons why we believe that God is good and the Devil is bad. If there is an answer you want in particular and we aren't giving it, what does that say?

Digit

 

[SonOfLilith]

So, basically you would rather experience everything in life, and then die and suffer eternal anguish, than life a life of pure goodness, (or as we do now, TRY to live that life) and experience eternal bliss with God?

That is, in the most basic form, the choices offered. Choosing the former to me, is a very odd decision. Not however, that I don't see how it can be an appealing decision, as I lived like that for many years. These years just made it harder to live life the way it should be lived through God.

Can I ask, what answers do YOU WANT out of interest? We have given you reasons why we believe that God is good and the Devil is bad. If there is an answer you want in particular and we aren't giving it, what does that say?

Digit

I don't know, maybe something to convince me what I thought was false so I could start possibly believing in the bible and save myself> *shrugs* I don't know, I am not goign to stand here and say I am the most intelligent guy or anything I am 16, still not entirely sure what I want but I did know those where not answers I wanted.

 

[DArceri]

My caring for people has actually tended to hurt me quite abit in the past.

Welcome to the club. Christians around the world are getting persecuted and even dying as we write. Believe it or not, whenever you do good, you are glorifying God. For He calls all of us to love one another as He loves you. And I say loves you even though you may not believe it. Anyway I challenge you to find a place in the bible that God lied. I don't want to let this go because you need to see the truth.

I would rather have experienced then live in an eternal bliss.

That is so shortsighted. You do realize we all will live eternally after we die. That's a long time isn't it? You will live in eternal bliss with God, or eternal mysery without Him. ETERNAL IS FOREVER, INFINITE,....Again, don't shortchange yourself for worldly passions. We are only here on earth for brief stay.[/quote]

 

[tapero]

Okay, now I know this will be an easy question for you guys but it's not so crystal clear cut for me, anyway.

The only evidence we have for Satan's evil is frankly God's word and his word have not been worth to much. He's shown a remarkable inconsistency in his actions and words, and he's hardly above lying or dishonest conduct. Now I am NOT debating nor am I going to try and make any arguments to defend myself or my teachings or religion here, I am just asking a simple question based of the things below I have seen in the bible.

Do you have any verses that can be discussed. To make claims without verses and context is difficult to help you with.

God does not lie, nor is he dishonest. He is pure, He is good. He is just, He is fair, He is righteous.

Please show scriptures if you can remember them, or use biblegateway.com, and use keyword search which is excellent if you can remember a few of the words in the verse and choose exact match only.

•Satan, like Prometheus, gave knowledge to humanity by giving Eve the fruit from the forbidden tree. Because of Satan, humanity gained knowledge of good and evil, according to Genesis. Since we couldn't have possessed knowledge of good and evil before eating the fruit, Adam and Eve couldn't have known that eating the fruit was evil, so it seems a little harsh to punish them as severely as God did. Satan gave humans true capacity for moral judgment, unlike God, who simply expected everyone to mindlessly obey his orders.

This is really kind of mixed up here. We weren't meant to know evil, see. But since God has incredible character and integrity, he does not violate the order of things set in motion from the beginning of time. In other words, satan was created perfect, and fell. God tossed him down, and he lied and decieved Eve. We didn't need moral judgment prior to the fall at all. God maybe expected but never forced as you can tell since Adam and Eve were told what not to do, and they went and did it. Our God give us freedom. So, there's no mindlessness.

•There is no biblical record of Satan engaging in the murder of torture of any human being, unlike God, who is guilty (and proudly guilty) of commiting genocide.

In the bible he; satan is called a murderer..so he is a murderer. God desires all to know Him, someone responded to this below beautifully. Why did God tell people to take the whole nation that he did, I don't know, but I do know that God is all good and never does evil. I don't understand it all. As I said, someone else described it well in this thread. It's like you have a mom and dad and you know their character. Well, we know God's character, and it's good and pure and righteous, and fair and just. It's a faith issue.

•There is no biblical record of Satan ever ordering someone to kill someone else, unlike God, who has repeatedly demanded the deaths of those who commit even the smallest of offenses.

Well, if you read about the Hebrews and you read the law, God gave them the law, so that they would have life. I have read Leviticus, the laws, and found them to be pure love, pure protection for His people. See, if they broke the laws there were punishments. Just as we have murderers and rapists today, due to law, many don't just do as they please cause they have somewhat of a conscience or don't want to go to jail. In the same way God gave laws to help his people and to protect them. I would think the punishments carried out in Leviticus prevented the nation from becoming rife with sin. If I saw some punishment for something, then I surely would not commit that crime.

Have you read the book of Job, where satan killed all his family, except Jobs wife?

All evil comes from satan meaning from the fall. However, we as sinners also do evil on our own when we sin. God says all wrongdoing is sin.

•Satan will not be holding a massively dramatic ceremony full of blood and death for the return of his son to Earth. God apparently will.

God allowing the tribulation upon the earth in the end times, will save many people from eternal death. Those who will die, without Christ, well, it is a choice that at that time they will make. Satan will be released and evil will reign because of it.so satan is quite involved in the end times and evilly so, this is the last battle that will occur. When all nations come against Israel.

When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them

What exactly has he done that was so evil that I am missing in the bible? I have read it cover to back, numerous times and yet I keep misisng the chapter.

Like one poster wrote: He brought death to all mankind.

Here's the bit about satan in the bible:

You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
ruby, topaz and emerald,
chrysolite, onyx and jasper,
sapphire, [b] turquoise and beryl. [c]
Your settings and mountings [d] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.

14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
16 Through your widespread trade
you were filled with violence,
and you sinned.
So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,
and I expelled you, O guardian cherub,
from among the fiery stones.
17 Your heart became proud
on account of your beauty,
and you corrupted your wisdom
because of your splendor.
So I threw you to the earth;
I made a spectacle of you before kings. 18 By your many sins and dishonest trade
you have desecrated your sanctuaries.
So I made a fire come out from you,
and it consumed you,
and I reduced you to ashes on the ground
in the sight of all who were watching.

Here is what Adam was told:

You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die."

The lies of satan

Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"

The woman's forgetting the commandment of God.

2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "
Another lie
4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Death came to all mankind through the lies of satan.
Thanks for the questions.

 

[Digit]

That is so shortsighted. You do realize we all will live eternally after we die. That's a long time isn't it? You will live in eternal bliss with God, or eternal mysery without Him. ETERNAL IS FOREVER, INFINITE,....Again, don't shortchange yourself for worldly passions. We are only here on earth for brief stay.

Exactly.

But saying that, he has said he is looking for reasons to believe otherwise.

Well, would you agree with this SonOfLilith:

1) Sin causes a lot of problems for humanity and is a very definite negative in our lives. Theft, slander, lies, hate, murder, lust, jealousy, racism... the list goes on and is, quite horribly, impressive.
2) Since Eden, man kept on ignoring God's teachings and His rules. Fast forward through a few hundred pages of the Bible, and God, as a righteous and just God, had to punish man for continuing to disobey Him.
3) But He loves us. So much so, that he decided the punishment, and then came to earth in human form, to accept the punishment for us.
4) He did this, because he doesn't want us to have to suffer. He wants to rid us from sin, and give us a way out.

Think of it like this.
-You speed.
-You get caught.
-The judge, a very good friend of yours, fines you £50000.00.
-You cannot pay that fine.
-So the judge, after he fines you £50000.00, comes down from the bench, walks over to you, and write you a cheque for £50000.00. -Now you can pay the fine.

Is that not amazing? God HAD to punish us. Because he is righteous. Just like the judge. He cannot overlook our sins and let them go unpunished. But to sentence humanity to death, and then to pay that fine Himself is a whole other matter.

Did the Devil offer to do this? Where was he? Nowhere, he doesn't care about us, his personal war is one against God, and God's creations, us.

Christianity is a tough life, you have to accept you cannot live your way anymore, which is a damn scary thing.But it can be amazing when you get past this angry, nasty God idea that people love to throw around.

Hope that helped you a little more dude.

Digit

 

[SonOfLilith]

Welcome to the club. Christians around the world are getting persecuted and even dying as we write. Believe it or not, whenever you do good, you are glorifying God. For He calls all of us to love one another as He loves you. And I say loves you even though you may not believe it. Anyway I challenge you to find a place in the bible that God lied. I don't want to let this go because you need to see the truth.


That is so shortsighted. You do realize we all will live eternally after we die. That's a long time isn't it? You will live in eternal bliss with God, or eternal mysery without Him. ETERNAL IS FOREVER, INFINITE,....Again, don't shortchange yourself for worldly passions. We are only here on earth for brief stay.

Athiest are persecuted to man. Anyway below I will post some various things I have seen from the bible I believe to be lies. NOTE TO THE MODS! I AM NOT DEBATING, HE ASKED ME TO DO THIS!

Is it shortsighted? I believe currently that my life on earth is all I get, why not make it count by helping others and improving myself rather then sit and do nothing beliving in an eternal life. I feel nothing for wordly passions but currently it is all I have, besides hell is not torment from what i have read, just a place for an absesce of god.

Anyway, somes lies and contradictions from God.

James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:


Genesis 22:1
And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.

--

Exodus 23:7
Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

Exodus 32:27
And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.

--

Exodus 7: 3-4
Now this is not a lie but if I am not mistaken he purposly makes thye Pharoah blind to Moses so he can have an excuse to enact his revenge on Egypt?

--
God says he is incapable of evil however.

Exodus 32:14
And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.

That is all I can find at the moment from teh top of my head from my bible but I seem to find them frequently.