The Design Delusion

[sandwiches]

Ok, I see. I would say this is a difficult argument to get across to the general public, based on the difference in how I interpreted it compared to how you have interpreted it.

I disagree with Dawkins that there is an implicit regression problem at all.

A theist can simply argue that the universe is too complicated to have arisen without divine intervention and then say god has always been so doesn't require a creator.

If bare assertions is all that's needed, then let's make the same assertion about God: God is too complicated to have arisen without natural processes and the universe has always been so it doesn't require a creator. And?

As I can figure it in a purely logical sense, a complex thing does not require a more complex thing. That does NOT imply that NO complex thing requires a more complex thing.

So, if not everything requires a complex creator, we cannot automatically assume that the universe required a creator. And if some things require a creator, then their deity may have had a creator.

Therefore, I do not see a logical inconsistency between man/nature requiring a god and god not requiring a god.

All things considered, I still think Dawkin's choice of this line of argument is poor.

I think it's the fact that theists assign properties ad hoc to their deity without a way to verify. In other words, as I said before, they're bare assertions and anyone can make them. So, if whoever makes the most special pleading wins, then we're in for a long debate.

 

[matthewgar]

Atheist now accepts Intelligent Design (flagella)


Just one example out of thousands.

ehhh....before you embarrass yourself how about reading more then the title, it's a parody, it says so /in the description/. I really wish people on all sides research a video before they go and post it as if it proves something. heh.

 

[BrianOnEarth]

I think it's the fact that theists assign properties ad hoc to their deity without a way to verify. In other words, as I said before, they're bare assertions and anyone can make them. So, if whoever makes the most special pleading wins, then we're in for a long debate.

Yes. Conjecture is fun. Believing wholeheartedly in a conjecture without waiting for proof is unwise and neurotic. Turn cognitive brain off in favour of pleasing fantasy.
This wouldn't be so bad if were not for the awful side-effects: bigotry, prejudice, false hope. Also the sometimes terrible burden it places on the individual: just check out the depression section here to see how individuals punish themselves for not meeting god's standards. Mind you, god doesn't even meet god's standards! I was shocked yesterday to find a thread where Christians were recommending to a Christian lady not to date a non-believer because "god says not to". So god is now a bigot too. Good grief!
The sooner people take responsibility for their own attitudes and behaviours the better.

 

[sandwiches]

Yes. Conjecture is fun. Believing wholeheartedly in a conjecture without waiting for proof is unwise and neurotic. Turn cognitive brain off in favour of pleasing fantasy.
This wouldn't be so bad if were not for the awful side-effects: bigotry, prejudice, false hope. Also the sometimes terrible burden it places on the individual: just check out the depression section here to see how individuals punish themselves for not meeting god's standards. Mind you, god doesn't even meet god's standards! I was shocked yesterday to find a thread where Christians were recommending to a Christian lady not to date a non-believer because "god says not to". So god is now a bigot too. Good grief!
The sooner people take responsibility for their own attitudes and behaviours the better.

Not to derail this thread but I decided to take a look at the depression forum and it broke my heart to see so many sad and depressed people. As I type this, I still have a knot in my throat.

This lady with degenerative disc disease made me tear up a bit. I hope we can find more and better treatments for peoples' ailments, including depression. That forum is truly heartbreaking.