The Demise of Evolution

Presbyterian Continuist · Apr 12, 2020

pitabread said:
Several things to deconstruct here:

1) Evolution itself is simply the change in populations of biological evolution over time. That is the fact of evolution; it is based on direct observation of populations of organisms.

2) The Theory of Evolution is the explanation that explains this fact (e.g. it explains how populations of biological organisms change over time).

3) Science doesn't "prove" anything. Rather explanations are formulated and supported by evidence, until a better explanation with greater explanatory power comes along.

This has nothing to do with biological evolution and appears to be a strawman of your own construction. If you don't even know what evolution is then you're doubly not in a position to pass judgement on whether it's a belief or valid science.

If it can't be proved by the scientific method, which is recognised by all qualified scientists as the basis of true science, then it has to be a belief system based on the faith of those who believe it. Just the same as creationism is a belief system based on the faith of those who believe it. Neither is a a true science when it comes to using the scientific method to determine origin.

MIDutch · Apr 12, 2020

Oscarr said:
It may be because the book contained a very logical historical record that was believed to be true right up to the late 19th Century.

The first man was magically conjured up out of a pile of dirt. The first woman was magically conjured up out of a rib ripped out of the first man. Fruit that makes an eater immortal. A serpent that could talk. Giants, unicorns, satyrs, witches and wizards. A world wide flood killing all life on Earth. Dinosaurs living with humans. Etc..

Yep, very logical [/s]

Presbyterian Continuist · Apr 12, 2020

MIDutch said:
That's what creationists have been saying about science for almost 200 years (going way back to when geologists, who were often Christian clergy, were discovering that the Noachian flood never happened).

Science has plenty of answers. It's not the fault of science if creationists refuse to hear (understand) them.

Ah, but science can prove that a catastrophic flood did actually happen when the evidence for it is viewed and examined. It is just that evolutionists, because their own belief system, interpret the same evidence in a different way.

Presbyterian Continuist · Apr 12, 2020

pitabread said:
Your claim that evolution is "just a belief" appears to be just a belief.

What else could it be if it cannot be substantively proved through the scientific method?

We could go from the sublime to the ridiculous by saying, "You believe that I believe that you believe that I believer that you believe that I believe that it is all to do with belief!"

Presbyterian Continuist · Apr 12, 2020

MIDutch said:
The first man was magically conjured up out of a pile of dirt. The first woman was magically conjured up out of a rib ripped out of the first man. Fruit that makes an eater immortal. A serpent that could talk. Giants, unicorns, satyrs, witches and wizards. A world wide flood killing all life on Earth. Dinosaurs living with humans. Etc..

Yep, very logical [/s]

Yep. No doubt.
Just the same as a whole universe full of galaxies, stars, planets and our complex world being produced from absolutely nothing.

Speedwell · Apr 12, 2020

Oscarr said:
Yep. No doubt.
Just the same as a whole universe full of galaxies, stars, planets and our complex world being produced from absolutely nothing.

You've been pranked, Oscarr. Science doesn't claim that the universe came from nothing. That's just a creationist lie that the "Big Bang" theory says that the universe came from nothing.

Ophiolite · Apr 12, 2020

I see a parallel with the corona virus. If we all cease contact with silly ideas, the silly ideas will stop propagating. I recommend a quarantine for the infected individual.

MIDutch · Apr 12, 2020

Oscarr said:
Ah, but science can prove that a catastrophic flood did actually happen when the evidence for it is viewed and examined.

People HAVE been viewing it and examining it, going all the way back to Theophrastus (327-387 BCE)

The ONLY people who think this particular catastrophic flood happened are those who adhere to a particular religious scripture, and are convinced the evidence MUST be there because there scripture says it should be.

Oscarr said:
It is just that evolutionists, because their own belief system, interpret the same evidence in a different way.

If you're talking about the Black Sea flood or the Zanclean flood then yes, science does have evidence for the occurrence of those. If you're talking about the Noachian flood, then no, there is no evidence for that and plenty of evidence against.

Ask yourself why the VAST majority of Christian, Jewish and Muslim scientists, whose religious beliefs would certainly be eminently validated by the historical occurrence of a Noachian flood, reject it as a real event.

Ask yourself why ONLY a very, very small group of fundamentalist, Evangelical Christians think there was a global deluge that covered the earth's mountains to 22 feet deep and killed all terrestrial life on the planet.

Ask yourself why EVERY industry that deals with the geology of the Earth use mainstream geology to make a profit, and none of them, repeat, NONE of them use a creation model based on the Noachian flood.

MIDutch · Apr 12, 2020

Oscarr said:
Yep. No doubt.
Just the same as a whole universe full of galaxies, stars, planets and our complex world being produced from absolutely nothing.

Well, there you go, doing that whole universe ... produced from nothing thing. This is false. Science has NEVER claimed that the Cosmos came from "nothing".

Besides that, science has 13.75 billion years worth of evidence in support of it's theories and hypotheses. You have ... a book.

pitabread · Apr 12, 2020

Oscarr said:
If it can't be proved by the scientific method,

Again, science doesn't explicitly prove things. If you think it does, then your entire understanding of science is wrong.

which is recognised by all qualified scientists as the basis of true science, then it has to be a belief system based on the faith of those who believe it.

This is the part where you're just making things up.

pitabread · Apr 12, 2020

Oscarr said:
What else could it be if it cannot be substantively proved through the scientific method?

The Theory of Evolution is a foundational in science to the study of modern biology, is backed by 150+ years of scientific investigation and evidence, and has real-world applications in various fields of applied biology.

That's the reality, regardless of whether or not you think the science of evolution is correct.

If you want to pretend that the Theory of Evolution is something else, that's your call. But that's on you.

MIDutch · Apr 12, 2020

Ophiolite said:
I see a parallel with the corona virus. If we all cease contact with silly ideas, the silly ideas will stop propagating. I recommend a quarantine for the infected individual.

Unfortunately, that doesn't stop the propagation. The disease doesn't go away merely because we ignore it. Indeed, the disease may get worse. It is only through the dissemination of INFORMATION and KNOWLEDGE that the spread of the disease can be contained and eventually neutralized.

Six Reasons Young Christians Leave Church - Barna Group

Reason #3 – Churches come across as antagonistic to science.

Presbyterian Continuist · Apr 12, 2020

pitabread said:
The Theory of Evolution is a foundational in science to the study of modern biology, is backed by 150+ years of scientific investigation and evidence, and has real-world applications in various fields of applied biology.

That's the reality, regardless of whether or not you think the science of evolution is correct.

Show me, one piece of scientific evidence that one organism or creature has evolved from one kind to another, even a bacteria changing into an amoeba. Remember that true science has to be the result of direct investigative observation, testing, replication or photographs showing the developmental stages.

Artists' impressions and diagrams consisting in the belief that it "probably" or "possibly" or "might have" or "seems to" happen that way is not scientific proof.

Ophiolite · Apr 12, 2020

MIDutch said:
Unfortunately, that doesn't stop the propagation. The disease doesn't go away merely because we ignore it. Indeed, the disease may get worse. It is only through the dissemination of INFORMATION and KNOWLEDGE that the spread of the disease can be contained and eventually neutralized.

Six Reasons Young Christians Leave Church - Barna Group

Reason #3 – Churches come across as antagonistic to science.

I was trying to avoid having my post reported. Let me rephrase. Oscarr is spouting a very large load of infantile, uneducated, ill-informed tom-foolery and I was recommending ignoring his posts so that he gradually dries up and withers away. But there you go.

Presbyterian Continuist · Apr 12, 2020

MIDutch said:
Unfortunately, that doesn't stop the propagation. The disease doesn't go away merely because we ignore it. Indeed, the disease may get worse. It is only through the dissemination of INFORMATION and KNOWLEDGE that the spread of the disease can be contained and eventually neutralized.

Six Reasons Young Christians Leave Church - Barna Group

Reason #3 – Churches come across as antagonistic to science.

The main reason why young people, even those brought up by Christian parents, are leaving the church, is that they are bombarded with evolutionary teaching in their high schools and universities, and the church has failed to give them Biblical answers. That is the fault of the church, especially those who have adopted Theistic Evolution. These young people have adopted the attitude that if their church leaders don't believe the Bible, why should they?

The church is not antagonistic to science. It supports and agrees with all science that can be proved and validated by the use of the scientific method.

But the church recognises that abortion and racism comes from evolutionary thinking that humans are just animals and so the killing of unborn babies is justified because they can be treated in the same way that some drown unwanted kittens, because they are just animals aren't they? This evolutionary "animal" thinking justifies a doctor strangling an attempted aborted baby being born alive.

Also, the human "animal" evolutionary thinking has contributed to Africans being treated as inferior animals fit only for slavery in the Southern States of the US in the 19th Century, and the chaining up of Australian Aborigines like dogs as is depicted in photographs in fairly recent times.

Because Evolutionist believe that we are just animals, therefore anything goes as far as morality is concerned, and this is why abortion, racism, robbery, murder, pornography are so part of our western way of life. So it is not science that the church opposes, but evolutionary foundation that all these other things are built on.

Speedwell · Apr 12, 2020

Oscarr said:
The main reason why young people, even those brought up by Christian parents, are leaving the church, is that they are bombarded with evolutionary teaching in their high schools and universities, and the church has failed to give them Biblical answers. That is the fault of the church, especially those who have adopted Theistic Evolution. These young people have adopted the attitude that if their church leaders don't believe the Bible, why should they?

The church is not antagonistic to science. It supports and agrees with all science that can be proved and validated by the use of the scientific method.

But the church recognises that abortion and racism comes from evolutionary thinking that humans are just animals and so the killing of unborn babies is justified because they can be treated in the same way that some drown unwanted kittens, because they are just animals aren't they? This evolutionary "animal" thinking justifies a doctor strangling an attempted aborted baby being born alive.

Also, the human "animal" evolutionary thinking has contributed to Africans being treated as inferior animals fit only for slavery in the Southern States of the US in the 19th Century, and the chaining up of Australian Aborigines like dogs as is depicted in photographs in fairly recent times.

Because Evolutionist believe that we are just animals, therefore anything goes as far as morality is concerned, and this is why abortion, racism, robbery, murder, pornography are so part of our western way of life. So it is not science that the church opposes, but evolutionary foundation that all these other things are built on.

What were the justifications for abortion, racism and slavery before there was a theory of evolution?

Presbyterian Continuist · Apr 12, 2020

Ophiolite said:
I was trying to avoid having my post reported. Let me rephrase. Oscarr is spouting a very large load of infantile, uneducated, ill-informed tom-foolery and I was recommending ignoring his posts so that he gradually dries up and withers away. But there you go.

It is unfortunate that when one cannot answer specific questions, he has to resort to personal accusation and abuse. You can put me on ignore if you like and I stop asking embarrassing questions and will go away.

Presbyterian Continuist · Apr 12, 2020

Speedwell said:
What were the justifications for abortion, racism and slavery before there was a theory of evolution?

Because most pagan societies were based on some form of evolution. The ancient Greeks certainly believed in evolution. Reincarnation that is at the basis of some pagan religions is a form of evolution. The evolutionary beliefs of pagan societies that performed baby sacrifice by throwing them down volcanoes, into the fire, or shedding their blood on sacrificial altars all stem from evolutionary thinking that we are just a form of animal.

Presbyterian Continuist · Apr 12, 2020

Ophiolite said:
I was trying to avoid having my post reported.

I don't report posts that consist in fair debate. If I give it, then I am prepared to take it. But if they run out of answers all they have to do is put me on ignore and then they don't have to worry about me any more.

Speedwell · Apr 12, 2020

Oscarr said:
Because most pagan societies were based on some form of evolution. The ancient Greeks certainly believed in evolution. Reincarnation that is at the basis of some pagan religions is a form of evolution. The evolutionary beliefs of pagan societies that performed baby sacrifice by throwing them down volcanoes, into the fire, or shedding their blood on sacrificial altars all stem from evolutionary thinking that we are just a form of animal.

So the US was a pagan society before Darwin published Origin of Species? The Southern Baptist Convention--still the largest Protestant denomination in the US--was formed to provide Christian biblical justification for the institution of slavery. Are you saying that the Southern Baptists are pagans?

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