The Deception of Evolution and the Fossil Sequence

[RickG]

Do you have anything you hold sacred?

How do you defend its authenticity?

I'm not saying it is not valid scripture. I am saying there is no way of validating it. As you and Ken Ham say, "were you there". Who decided what was to be scripture and what was not, and when?

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm not saying it is not valid scripture. I am saying there is no way of validating it. As you and Ken Ham say, "were you there". Who decided what was to be scripture and what was not, and when?

How is our money ascertained to be legal tender?

If you can answer that, then I'm sure you can do the same for the sixty-six books of the Bible -- if you want to.

 

[RickG]

How is our money ascertained to be legal tender?

If you can answer that, then I'm sure you can do the same for the sixty-six books of the Bible -- if you want to.

That's a ridiculous analogy.

 

[Colter]

Prove it.

* Cain fears other tribes away from Adam & Eve, because the earth was already populated.

* The Lord agrees, puts a mark on Cain lest anyone find him kill him.

* Cain went to Nod, finds a wife, has a son named Enoch.


13 And Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is greater than I can bear! 14 Surely You have driven me out this day from the face of the ground; I shall be hidden from Your face; I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond on the earth, and it will happen that anyone who finds me will kill me.”

15 And the Lord said to him, “Therefore,[b] whoever kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.” And the Lord set a mark on Cain, lest anyone finding him should kill him.

The Family of Cain
16 Then Cain went out from the presence of the Lord and dwelt in the land of Nod on the east of Eden. 17 And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived

 

[Colter]

Let me guess, the Bible just happens to be fictionalized at precisely all the points that would be socially unacceptable for you to say otherwise. Is that about accurate?

No, it's more than the ebb and flow social norms.

 

[AV1611VET]

That's a ridiculous analogy.

I got that from a book by Lee Strobel.

 

[Colter]

And, of course, Jesus played along with it, didn't He?

Luke 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Kind of, he quoted true things from scripture, but he wasn't here to reform Judaism. However, the loveing Father he revealed in his life overwhelms the more primitive concepts of the Semetic tribes.

 

[RickG]

I got that from a book by Lee Strobel.

That doesn't negate the fact that the analogy is ridiculous.

 

[AV1611VET]

That doesn't negate the fact that the analogy is ridiculous.

One man's analogy is another man's ridiculousity, isn't it?

 

[RickG]

One man's analogy is another man's ridiculousity, isn't it?

There is no comparison in the analogy whatsoever.

Our money is easily verifiable as legal tender, through physical examination which is verifiable by the people who issue it. No scripture is not verifiable as authentic because there is no physical means by which anyone can verify it.

 

[AV1611VET]

There is no comparison in the analogy whatsoever.

Our money is easily verifiable as legal tender, through physical examination which is verifiable by the people who issue it. No scripture is not verifiable as authentic because there is no physical means by which anyone can verify it.

That's because It was already verified.

As Lee Strobel pointed out, these councils were not convened to create an authorized list of books, they were convened to create a list of authorized books.

If someone is put in a room full of currency and told to separate them into two piles: one pile consisting of legal tender and one pile consisting of unauthorized tender, it would be no problem:

One dollar bill = here.
Two dollar bill = here.
Three dollar bill = there.
Four dollar bill = there.
Five dollar bill = here.
Six dollar bill = there.
Seven dollar bill = there.
Eight dollar bill = there.
Nine dollar bill = there.
Ten dollar bill = here.

Same for the Scriptures.

Genesis here.
I Infancy there.
Ecclesiastes here.
II Infancy there.
etc.

66 books of authorized Scripture.
14 books of apocrypha.
The rest are pseudepigrapha.

 

[RickG]

That's because It was already verified.

As Lee Strobel pointed out, these councils were not convened to create an authorized list of books, they were convened to create a list of authorized books.

If someone is put in a room full of currency and told to separate them into two piles: one pile consisting of legal tender and one pile consisting of unauthorized tender, it would be no problem:

One dollar bill = here.
Two dollar bill = here.
Three dollar bill = there.
Four dollar bill = there.
Five dollar bill = here.
Six dollar bill = there.
Seven dollar bill = there.
Eight dollar bill = there.
Nine dollar bill = there.
Ten dollar bill = here.

Same for the Scriptures.

Genesis here.
I Infancy there.
Ecclesiastes here.
II Infancy there.
etc.

66 books of authorized Scripture.
14 books of apocrypha.
The rest are pseudepigrapha.

You still don't get it. And as for the Nicean Councils, what was considered scripture or not scripture was heavily debated and caused many different sects of Christianity to be formed. Translation and interpretation was and still continues to be a problem. Not to mention that there are numerous conflicts within the bible itself.

 

[AV1611VET]

You still don't get it.

Ya.

I'm afraid I do get it.

And as for the Nicean Councils, what was considered scripture or not scripture was heavily debated and caused many different sects of Christianity to be formed.

I'm sure the Devil didn't take it lying down.

Translation and interpretation was and still continues to be a problem.

It wasn't with Jesus.

He had the wherewithall to tell tradition to take a hike.

Not to mention that there are numerous conflicts within the bible itself.

Uh-huh.

 

[lifepsyop]

Wow, an eight page derailment courtesy of AV. Why do people still take the bait?

Yea it's pretty difficult to follow the original discussion in these conditions...maybe the sidetracks could be moved to their own thread...

I posted some more material relevant to the OP here:

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...fossil-sequence.7880422/page-25#post-68027951
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...fossil-sequence.7880422/page-28#post-68029252

 

[Colter]

Staking the position that the current Bible book list is a divine production, a fetish of sorts, the Word of God, is intellectual AND spiritual laziness! It's hiding the talents under a rock. Should Christ return today they would present him with the book as principle and interest. "Here it is, we allowed nothing to be added nor taken away from it."

The train left the station long ago, we will pursue truth wherever it takes us; the material facts of creation via evolution, and the spiritual truths of the Living God as we discern the objective reality of God subjectively.

 

[driewerf]

Oh, but indeed I can.

If you can't daisy-chain life from cyanobacteria to man, then don't expect me to play along with evolution's paper skeletons.

And can you daisy-chain yourself to Noah?
If you can't daisy-chain yourself to Noah, then don't expect me to play along with your Flood stories.

 

[AV1611VET]

Staking the position that the current Bible book list is a divine production, a fetish of sorts, the Word of God, is intellectual AND spiritual laziness! It's hiding the talents under a rock. Should Christ return today they would present him with the book as principle and interest. "Here it is, we allowed nothing to be added nor taken away from it."

The train left the station long ago, we will pursue truth wherever it takes us; the material facts of creation via evolution, and the spiritual truths of the Living God as we discern the objective reality of God subjectively.

QV please:

Hi,

I have just joined this forum and when filling out my religion selected 'Christian-seeker' as I am seeking to find out more about Christianity. Am I right in doing this, or does 'Christian-Seeker' mean something else?

Thanks for any help.

 

[MoreCoffee]

QV please:

You certainly put up a fight

 

[AV1611VET]

And can you daisy-chain yourself to Noah?
If you can't daisy-chain yourself to Noah, then don't expect me to play along with your Flood stories.

I don't need to daisy-chain myself to Noah.

Cyanobacteria → Man is vertical.
Noah → AV1611VET is horizontal.

 

[RickG]

Yea it's pretty difficult to follow the original discussion in these conditions...maybe the sidetracks could be moved to their own thread...

I posted some more material relevant to the OP here:

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...fossil-sequence.7880422/page-25#post-68027951
http://www.christianforums.com/thre...fossil-sequence.7880422/page-28#post-68029252

Thanks for the reminder. Yes, we took AV's bait and I'm sure he is a happy camper for turning attention away from scientific discussion.

Meanwhile, back to the topic; I thing we also get derailed with trivial non sequitur claims concerning the fossil sequence. First of all, a connection of transitional fossils is not necessary to realize evolution. All one has to do is look at the fossil sequence distributed throughout the geologic strata. If evolution were false, we would see all life forms that have ever existed mixed throughout all the sedimentary strata. The fact is we don't. There aren't any dinosaurs in Devonian strata, or humans in Eocene strata, or lizards in Neoproterozoic strata. It is distributed throughout the sedimentary strata exactly how evolution would describe it.