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The Deception of Evolution and the Fossil Sequence

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DogmaHunter

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Treating the process of evolution like it is the energizer bunny doesn't wash.

I already posted the video showing Richard Dawkins explaining our "cousins" to us.

Did you take a good look at that chart on the wall?

It was a game of connect-the-dots.

Anyone can put four dots side-by-side on a piece of paper, then put one dot below those four dots and draw four lines from the one dot to the four and call it evolution.


I just explained to you that it's not a game, but a factual hierarchy in our collective DNA that is right there for anyone to look at. Remember that chart from the dawkins vid indeed... it's a tree. A tree that is the factual result when mapping the genomes of those primates.

I love what Kent Hovind once said:

"You can't prove a single species in our evolutionary past had a viable offspring."

Errrr....

If they didn't have any viable off spring.... life wouldn't exist. Everything would have gone extinct.

I mean, come on.... You can't be serious.
 
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DogmaHunter

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You do realize this applies whether or not universal common descent is true or not, right?

Sure. It always applies, anywhere. As long as you have competing systems that reproduce with variation - that process inevitably kicks in.

And the longer it goes on, the more changes accumulate in their "plans".

And that evolutionary history will leave a trace in their "plans". Those end systems will fall into a nested hierarchy. And by studying that hierarchy, you'll be able to tell which ones are closer related then others.

As it turns out, that is exactly what we find in life on this planet.
So as it turns, it looks that this is exactly what happened: all life shares an ancestor and diversified over time through evolutionary processes.

No you probably don't... One is not even remotely sufficient enough to demonstrate the other.

How is it insufficient?

We understand the phenomena:
- what survives, survives
- new changes are introduced every generation
- inheritable genetics

We understand what kind of pattern emerges when this process goes on for a good amount of time: nested hierarchies that can be logically mapped unto a phylogenetic tree, a familiy tree if you wish.

When we look at life on this planet, that turns out to be exactly what we find. And we find it on plenty of different levels, making it converge on the same hierarchies approached from different angles.

You can trace back dna sequences, single genes, specific dna markers, ... with genetics.
You can trace back organs, muscles, bones,... with comparative anatomy.
You can even look at the geological distribution of species and bring that into the equation..

And it fits like a glove.

In what kind of universe are so many different converging lines of evidence "insufficient"??



Classic example of affirming the consequent.

No. Just the simplistic concept of how the process works. That's all it takes.


This is what is called pure imagination.

Is it "imagination" that if you continue to add up inches, you'll eventually end up with miles?


Actual observation shows us change is cyclical or deleterious. Take Darwin's Finches for example (which evolutionists have endlessly blundered in their interpretations). The finches are merely oscillating between the same set of pre-existing morphological bird-beak configurations. Splitting up in different populations and then coming back together again with the seasonal cycles. That is how nature really works. It does not mystically "evolve" new types of animals over time. It is so sad that your cult has actually convinced itself that nature is a magical creative force.

Then I guess you have to explain why so many different and independent lines of evidence all scream out common descent through the process of evolution.
 
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Atheos canadensis

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Uh huh. Like if a dog was more genetically similar to a spider than another mammal. That would falsify evolution wouldn't it? Who but evolutionists could ever have predicted that similar animals would be similar?


And yet molecular studies produce the same nested hierarchy of relationships as that produced by morphological study. This goes well beyond your trite observation because we know from direct observation that similar phenotypes do not need to equate to similar genotypes.

Also, I am still waiting to hear why plate tectonics is a bad theory because it could just as easily accommodate Australia being formerly a part of North America rather than Antarctica or that it doesn't say why certain events happened when they did.
 
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AV1611VET

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I mean, come on.... You can't be serious.

Oh, but indeed I can.

If you can't daisy-chain life from cyanobacteria to man, then don't expect me to play along with evolution's paper skeletons.
 
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DogmaHunter

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Oh, but indeed I can.

If you can't daisy-chain life from cyanobacteria to man, then don't expect me to play along with evolution's paper skeletons.

This is akin to saying that you won't buy into the idea of aging unless I can show you a picture of my face of every second of my life starting with the day I was born.
 
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AV1611VET

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This is akin to saying that you won't buy into the idea of aging unless I can show you a picture of my face of every second of my life starting with the day I was born.
Resorting to microevolution to argue a point I made against macroevolution isn't cutting it with me, DH.
 
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PsychoSarah

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Oh, but indeed I can.

If you can't daisy-chain life from cyanobacteria to man, then don't expect me to play along with evolution's paper skeletons.
-_- well, since I don't adhere to UCA theory, I wouldn't have to "daisy chain" bacterial ancestry with eukaryotic ancestry. Additionally, would you need every link in a chain to know it was a chain? Personally, I could see about 10 in a row, with various other pieces lined up but not directly connected, and conclude "chain".
 
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PsychoSarah

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That leaves what?

About 30 quadrillion to go?
Approximating how many transitional species there are would be unrealistic, seeing as most left behind no fossils. However, We have more than 20 of them for humans, and those are just the ones that come after the split between human and chimpanzee evolution. Do you need to see every number in order to think math works?
 
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AV1611VET

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Approximating how many transitional species there are would be unrealistic,

It wouldn't be if you actually had them.

The fact that you can't tell me how many there are, shows me the world is not in possession of this daisy chain I'm asking for.

... seeing as most left behind no fossils.

Either that, or there were no animals in between to leave anything behind.

However, We have more than 20 of them for humans,

Nice.

That leaves about what? 30 more quadrillion to go?

.. and those are just the ones that come after the split between human and chimpanzee evolution.

Swell.

You just severly narrowed the playing field.

I'm sure I mentioned cyanobacteria to man -- not chimpanzee to man.

Do you need to see every number in order to think math works?

No.

But when it comes to phantom evolution, you'd better be able to cough up a daisy chain if you want me to buy into it.
 
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Mr Strawberry

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Swell.

You just severly narrowed the playing field.

I'm sure I mentioned cyanobacteria to man -- not chimpanzee to man.

Not really. I have a feeling you would happily concede evolution was responsible for every other species on the planet as long as the human species was left out. Cyanobacteria to chimpnzees? Yes, no problem. Humans from anything at all? No way. It's the fact that you are directly related to the rest of the animal kingdom that sticks in your throat (to mention part of your body that in its adaption for speech gives you a tendency for choking - ah, such are the trade offs of evolutionary advantage) isn't it?
 
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AV1611VET

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I have a feeling you would happily concede evolution was responsible for every other species on the planet as long as the human species was left out.
Not even close.

Some of my other beefs with evolution include:
  1. deep time
  2. denying the whole picture (i.e., cosmic evolution)
  3. the order of the appearances of the things that exist (e.g., the sun before angiosperms)
  4. denial of sin nature
  5. interconnectness of all life from cyanobacteria to man
 
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Justatruthseeker

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8239090.jpg

This is what they want to believe, despite the fact the fossil record supports no such belief. The fossil record nowhere supports the connecting line below. And if they ever get around to studying the rest of the fossils and correct those 2 of every 3 they got wrong - that tree will become gap games of even greater scope. Those dots will all disappear, connected by nothing but the imagination it already is.
 
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Mr Strawberry

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Not even close.

Some of my other beefs with evolution include:
  1. deep time
  2. denying the whole picture (i.e., cosmic evolution)
  3. the order of the appearances of the things that exist (e.g., angiosperms before the sun)
  4. denial of sin nature
  5. interconnectness of all life from cyanobacteria to man

In and of itself I mean. You have no objection to time having gone on for billions of years in itself. Why would you? Denying the whole picture - that's a laugh, you haven't even got a picture. The order? These are all just pointless bible quibbles. They don't actually matter to you in themselves. Denial of sin nature? Well, to be honest you'd feel a hundred percent better if you woke up tomorrow without that disgusting idea warping your views and opinions relating to humanity and the world into something less than wholesome and pleasant, and that's putting it mildly, but you're too far gone to explain that one to you. But none of these things really matter to you in themselves, they are just things you have to adhere to in order to get your prize of eternity as god's favourite bathtime loofer. But being related to the rest of the animal kingdom? You don't like that at all for some reason. That really upsets you. Weird.
 
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AV1611VET

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You have no objection to time having gone on for billions of years in itself.

I beg your pardon?

I'm second to none here denying deep time.

The more you guys post about what I believe, the more wrong you are.
 
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Mr Strawberry

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I beg your pardon?

I'm second to none here denying deep time.

The more you post about what I believe, the more wrong you are.
That's just a bible quibble. In fact it's not even that. It's a bizarre calculation based on an interpretation of the bible quibble. I'm making a distinction between things that would still bother you if weren't a religious extremist - things you would find unacceptable even if you weren't under the delusion that believing them was a requirement to win your prize.
 
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lasthero

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And if they ever get around to studying the rest of the fossils and correct those 2 of every 3 they got wrong

You know that's not true. You bring this stat up constantly, but the thing you link to flat out DOESN'T SAY THAT. Horner never said that 2 out of 3 fossils are misidentified. He never even said that 2 out of 3 dinosaurs are misindentified. All he did was analyze 12 dinosaurs, which is a small fraction of the thousand plus dinosaurs we know about, and a ridiculously small fraction of all the fossils we know about. To extrapolate that to ALL FOSSILS is very dishonest.
 
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AV1611VET

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I'm making a distinction between things that would still bother you if weren't a religious extremist - things you would find unacceptable even if you weren't under the delusion that believing them was a requirement to win your prize.

That's fine.

Try doing it and being right at the same time; will you please?

I don't mind you making a list, but it bugs me if I have to correct it.
 
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