The debate rages on other blogs...

[ChrisW357]

Lemme direct your attention to a particular blog I've been commenting on for the last few months... specifically two entries...

nfpworks.wordpress.com/2007/10/09/childfree-selfishness-incarnate-or-saavy-living/

nfpworks.wordpress.com/2008/03/13/on-evil-and-other-misunderstood-words-an-apology/

Keep in mind that this blog is mainly all about Natural Family Planning and is mainly Catholic, not exactly Christian per se. I'm in the post comments as Chris W., and I've been one of the very few so far (on that blog) that have been making the case for Childfree Christians.

While the posts and comments are certainly entertaining, they do raise some deeper viewpoints and concerns. I'd like this community's take on some of what is discussed in those two blog entries.

Sorry for not being a regular here. I have so many memberships elsewhere that it's hard to keep track of it all!

Rock for the Rock!

 

[127.0.0.1]

nfpworks

Sorry but I'm a little skeptical about trusting NFP.

and I've been one of the very few so far (on that blog) that have been making the case for Childfree Christians.

You rock dude!!!!

While the posts and comments are certainly entertaining, they do raise some deeper viewpoints and concerns. I'd like this community's take on some of what is discussed in those two blog entries.

Yeah...um...it's basically just someone else's opinion. Now let me give my opinion:

Have you heard of the “Childfree” movement?
...

Yeah actually, but have you?

That’s right. The cultural fallacy that children are burdens, animals are environmentally friendly ”kids” and no parenting is better than bad parenting has an official meeting place.

Darn straight!

Quite literally, their whole mission is to throw (jettison is probably a better word) the baby out with the bathwater!

No, our goal is to live our lives, without having children in the first place. Bathwater doesn't even factor into it, I take showers.

Summary: the Childfree movement is made up of people who can’t have kids or don’t want kids (for various reasons), and are tired of a cultural stigma for being sterile and/ or childless. Hence, they’re not child-less–they’re childfree! Weeee!!! Now doesn’t a sterilized population sound fun?

I don't get what is meant be a "sterilized population", we're not a cult bent on converting the world.

Actually, no.

Please note that this is your opinion.

This hurts my heart, soul, mind and body more than I can really say.

No one can deny your feelings.

It’s evil organized and incarnate at worst, and cognitive dissonance at best.

I can think of worse things to be than Childfree

I mean really, do these people hate themselves, because it seems to me that unless they were dropped from another planet, they themselves were children once, and oops–thank you to the “fertility idolaters” that were their parents!

Since when did you get the idea that we all hate kids?

The society members site various and sundry, but radically fatuous, reasons for their choice to embrace sterility: bad parenting, overpopulation, environmental and economic concerns related to the formers, but the most honest reason is plain old devoted narcissism.

You forgot just not wanting 'em.

To be continued…

No, please make it stop!

I'm not too sure she fully understands the Childfree community in depth. There seems to be an assumption that Childfree = Child-hater. Just because I can't deal with kids doesn't mean I hate them.

Some folk just don't want kids and other folk just don't get it.

 

[snoochface]

Subbing to the thread for now. But I can't look at the blog posts just yet. I suspect they will make sleeping a bit difficult tonight as my blood pressure surges. So I'll check them out this weekend and get back to you.

 

[cherryblossom03]

Well, it's not anything I haven't heard before. Some of the stuff my mother has said, "who will take care of you when you're old", "you were a kid once","being a parent makes you less selfish" etc. I think her thing is she doesn't want me to deprive her of grandchildren, but she's got 2 other kids to bug for that. Not everyone is Catholic and believes what the Vatican says. I have no problem with the pope, I just want him to keep out of my bedroom, marriage and my body. They are more than welcome to think that I am a rabid child hater, I know that I am not and God know that also. That's all that matters to me.

 

[Mskedi]

If I were to reply, I think I'd mention that I've dedicated my life to helping children who aren't mine.

How does that hold with his (her?) argument that I hate children?

 

[bluebug83]

Good responses here so far.

I'll reiterate my belief that Christians that believe being childfree is immoral do not bother me. This man/woman has deeply held beliefs and I can respect them, even though I don't agree with them, and from the last comment on the second thread it sounds like s/he is open to the posting of civil opinions by others who disagree...a rare thing to see, if I may say so.

I don't have time to read all the comments, and am not sure how much new stuff I'd see that haven't already been discussed in threads here so far. But I would mainly ask, why does the author think that bad parenting is better than no parenting? I can't understand how that could possibly be the case. And about contraception causing perversion of sexuality...I can see how the availability of contraception makes it easier to pervert sexuality, but that doesn't mean that everyone that uses contraception is perverting sexuality. It's kind of like how many inventions can be used for good, or for evil...like guns. You can use a gun to defend yourself, or to offensively hurt another. But I just don't see how contraception in and of itself is evil. If you understand and don't feel ready for the tremendous task of parenting, it's the responsible thing to do.

I don't see anything in the Bible that addresses overpopulation, but I see some of the effects of it in today's world and believe it's something that may be becoming a big problem. So I think choosing not to have kids due to overpopulation concerns is an OK decision. I didn't hear the specifics of the argument against overpopulation, but the common one I've heard is about how everyone could have their own house and yard and fit within the state of Texas. Good idea, but we're forgetting 1) a small fraction of land on this planet is arable, 2) we need a much larger amount of arable land to grow food to feed the population, and 3) we need space for common infrastructure, too. Not to mention, a population that has already "filled the earth" cannot go about reproducing without limit as it will eventually grow it to an unsustainable size.

 

[Catholic Wife]

I see these blogs as highly opinionated, very narrow-minded and rather uncharitable, but not un-Christian. They present a viewpoint that is misunderstood and unaccepted by most people nowadays. The beliefs of certain people (no matter how misguided they may be/appear) are sometimes so strong that they can't see any other point of view -- and it's not just Catholics who are so unyielding on this subject. Even though I'm child-free, I still understand and agree with some of the statements made by the person who wrote the above-mentioned blog entries; however, I don't agree with or appreciate some of the more inflammatory and inaccurate statements made (especially that all people who are CF hate themselves/children and are narcissistic).

 

[127.0.0.1]

(especially that all people who are CF hate themselves/children and are narcissistic).

How can you hate yourself AND be narcissistic at the same time? I don't get that.

Yes, I'm so wonderful that I absolutely loath myself, so I'm going to be Childfree.

 

[HeyHomie]

Even though I'm not our moderator, let me encourage (as a friend) everyone to please not engage in a board war with this blog. We don't want it or need it.

If you feel you must participate in a discussion over there, please do not mention CF or this sub-forum. And remember: arguing on the internet is like participating in the Special Olympics; you may win, but you'll still be...

 

[bluebug83]

Even though I'm not our moderator, let me encourage (as a friend) everyone to please not engage in a board war with this blog. We don't want it or need it.

If you feel you must participate in a discussion over there, please do not mention CF or this sub-forum. And remember: arguing on the internet is like participating in the Special Olympics; you may win, but you'll still be...

The internet would be a much better place if everyone took this advice. But maybe it's because I spent too much time today reading a controversial thread tied to an article on a newspaper web site today, and noticed just how pointless it all was.

 

[Rembrandtfan]

Bathwater doesn't even factor into it, I take showers.

lol

 

[Rembrandtfan]

These are all just people's opinions, not facts. Childfree people have opinions that are just as deep and valid as anyone else's. Unless someone can point out a bible verse that I've missed that clearly states that childfree is wrong, then I have no reason to question my own opinion about it. And sorry, these people's opinions are not enough for me to go on.

 

[Diane_Windsor]

Not everyone is Catholic and believes what the Vatican says. I have no problem with the pope, I just want him to keep out of my bedroom, marriage and my body.

Not every Roman Catholic believes what the Vatican says despite what RC internet apologists wannabes claim LOL

Narcissistic? Is the author a trained psychologist? How is she qualified to make that judgement? Anyway, it's just an opinion, which is probably directed at the choir *wink wink*