The debate about forgiving -- is it just priests that forgive?

[All4Christ]

My spiritual child, [Name], who have confessed to my humble person, I, humble and a sinner, have not power on earth to forgive sins, but God alone; but through that divinely spoken word which came to the Apostles after the Resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, saying, Whosoever sins you forgive are forgiven, and whosoever sins you retain are retained, we are emboldened to say: Whatsoever you have said to my humble person, and whatsoever you have failed to say, whether through ignorance or forgetfulness, whatever it may be, may God forgive you in this world and in that which is to come.

May God Who pardoned David through Nathan the Prophet when he confessed his sins, and Peter weeping bitterly for his denial, and the sinful woman weeping at His feet, and the publican and the prodigal son; May that same God forgive you all things, through me a sinner, both in this world and in the world to come, and set you uncondemned before His terrible Judgment Seat. (In the name + of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.) Have no further care for the sins which you have confessed, depart in peace.

https://www.goarch.org/documents/32058/2612195/preparing-for-confession.pdf/00324fdf-b1c8-4b04-91c4-a99e9150b001

 

[concretecamper]

Priests do not forgive. We proclaim God's forgiveness. The church entrusts to us the responsibility of doing so with the authority of the church behind it, but it is not something we do or make happen.

That is not what John 22 says. Yes, it is through the power of God, but the priest does forgive sins.

Words of Absolution:

God, the Father of mercies,
through the death and resurrection of his Son
has reconciled the world to himself
and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins;
through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace,
and I absolve you from your sins
in the name of the Father, [sign of the cross] and of the Son, and the Holy Spirit Amen


Jn 22. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and says to them, Receive you the Holy Ghost. 23 Whosoever sins you remit, they are remitted to them; and whose soever sins you retain, they are retained.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

Would you consider that instruction from Christ to the 12 apostles in John 20:23 part of the Great Commission as well?

Many churches, when they teach that all of us are also to fulfill the Great Commission, their favorite version being the one found in Matthew 28, don't seem to teach that we have the power to forgive sins as well.

Would you agree?

I'm a bit hesitant to say that the Great Commission was given to all believers. Matthew states, "Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go." So Jesus was only speaking to the disciples, not to all of His followers. For me, then we have to look at how Paul writes in First Corinthians, "And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, and those with gifts of healing, helping, administration, and various tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?… " So here Paul is distinguishing the roles that everyone plays in the service of the church. As a chanter, my gifts are song and administration of the chanting stand. Therefore for me to publicly announce the forgiveness of sins on behalf of the church would be wrong. But forgiving someone for a sin against me is perfectly acceptable.

 

[Guojing]

I'm a bit hesitant to say that the Great Commission was given to all believers. Matthew states, "Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go." So Jesus was only speaking to the disciples, not to all of His followers.

Nice, unfortunately, because many church teach this term "The Great Commission", a term which is unscriptural, that particular final instruction to the 12 apostles in Matthew superseded the other instructions the resurrected Christ also gave in Mark/Luke/John/Acts, and took special significance for all of us.

 

[Paidiske]

That is not what John 22 says. Yes, it is through the power of God, but the priest does forgive sins.

Words of Absolution:

God, the Father of mercies,
through the death and resurrection of his Son
has reconciled the world to himself
and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins;
through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace,
and I absolve you from your sins
in the name of the Father, [sign of the cross] and of the Son, and the Holy Spirit Amen


Jn 22. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and says to them, Receive you the Holy Ghost. 23 Whosoever sins you remit, they are remitted to them; and whose soever sins you retain, they are retained.

Yes, "I absolve you," in the sense that I pronounce the absolution. But I do not make it happen; I am announcing what God has already done.

That is what John 20:23 says, where the tense of the verb, which is a perfect passive indicative, if translated accurately into English, would be rendered, "if you forgive the sins of any, they will have been forgiven."

 

[HTacianas]

So then "hate your mother and father" in Matt 10 should be isolated from all other Bible texts about loving our neighbor as ourselves as in Matt 22?? in your POV?

No text says 'The apostles' rather it is always "you" and it is in fact "each one of you" in Matt 18 just as in Matt 6 "forgive us our debts as we forgive our debtors". There is never a "just the Apostles" qualifier

That is a reference to the church discipline he called the church to exercise in 1 Cor 5 -- disfellowshiping someone who was in open sin - to try and convince them to repent and return. It was a corporate action by the entire church to cast that person out.

2 Cor 2:5 But if anyone has caused sorrow, he has caused sorrow not for me, but in some degree—not to say too much—for all of you. 6 Sufficient for such a person is this punishment which was imposed by the majority, 7 so that on the other hand, you should rather forgive and comfort him, otherwise such a person might be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. 8 Therefore I urge you to reaffirm your love for him. 9 For to this end I also wrote, so that I might put you to the test, whether you are obedient in all things. 10 But one whom you forgive anything, I also forgive; for indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, I did so for your sakes in the presence of Christ, 11 so that no advantage would be taken of us by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his schemes.

He calls for the entire church to forgive the repentant offender

2 Cor 7:8 For though I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it; though I did regret it—for I see that that letter caused you sorrow, though only for a while— 9 I now rejoice, not that you were made sorrowful, but that you were made sorrowful to the point of repentance; for you were made sorrowful according to the will of God, so that you might not suffer loss in anything through us. 10 For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death. 11 For behold what earnestness this very thing, this godly sorrow, has produced in you: what vindication of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what punishment of wrong! In everything you demonstrated yourselves to be innocent in the matter. 12 So although I wrote to you, it was not for the sake of the offender nor for the sake of the one offended, but that your earnestness in our behalf might be made known to you in the sight of God. 13 Because of this, we have been comforted.

It says "he breathed on them" and said... He breathed on the apostles. He did not breathe on me, he did not breathe on you. He breathed on the apostles and gave them that authority. And it is an authority bishops and priests have exercised throughout the history of Christianity. Because your later tradition takes some issue with it does not change it.

 

[Guojing]

It says "he breathed on them" and said... He breathed on the apostles. He did not breathe on me, he did not breathe on you. He breathed on the apostles and gave them that authority. And it is an authority bishops and priests have exercised throughout the history of Christianity. Because your later tradition takes some issue with it does not change it.

Do you take the instructions Jesus gave to "them" in Matthew 28:18-20 for you then?

 

[HTacianas]

Do you take the instructions Jesus gave to "them" in Matthew 28:18-20 for you then?

No I don't. And neither do you.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Matt 18 informs us that the matter is not confined to priests/pastors/apostles.

Has anyone asserted that forgiving is the exclusive activity of priests, pastors, or apostles?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Ahh, that particular instruction in the Great Commission that only the Catholics recognized.

Interesting that you observe that about John 20:23.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

All of Christianity recognizes it. It's only some protestant groups that don't.

Perhaps it is more than just some protestant groups that do not recognise it.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Uh no, Anglicans, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrians, Methodists, Moravians, Baptists, Reformed Presbyterian and Congregationalists all recognize this, which is indicated by the confiteors in their liturgy, and in the case of Lutherans, not only do Lutherans recognize it, but Martin Luther considered that confession might constitute a third sacrament in addition to the usual two recognized Protestant sacraments of Baptism and the Eucharist.

It really is a great pity that Martin Luther separated from the Catholic Church. So much trouble has come of it. Yet, history is played out according to God's secret purposes and even the troubles that arose must be received by the faithful as somehow salutary.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Priests do not forgive. We proclaim God's forgiveness. The church entrusts to us the responsibility of doing so with the authority of the church behind it, but it is not something we do or make happen.

Absolution is something that the minister of the sacrament does, but it is done in the person of Christ which is to say it is done by his authority in his name and as a mercy from God.

 

[Guojing]

No I don't. And neither do you.

Nice, you are rightly dividing the word of truth there.

 

[Guojing]

Interesting that you observe that about John 20:23.

Since you are a Catholic, you should understand what I was saying?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

That is not what John 22 says. Yes, it is through the power of God, but the priest does forgive sins.

Words of Absolution:

God, the Father of mercies,
through the death and resurrection of his Son
has reconciled the world to himself
and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins;
through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace,
and I absolve you from your sins
in the name of the Father, [sign of the cross] and of the Son, and the Holy Spirit Amen


Jn 22. And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and says to them, Receive you the Holy Ghost. 23 Whosoever sins you remit, they are remitted to them; and whose soever sins you retain, they are retained.

The absolution is spoken by the priest acting in the person of Christ by his authority as a mercy to the soul who has confessed. It is fair to view this as a work of God through the office and ministry of the priest who acts on behalf of the Church as God's Church.

1461 Since Christ entrusted to his apostles the ministry of reconciliation,65 bishops who are their successors, and priests, the bishops' collaborators, continue to exercise this ministry. Indeed bishops and priests, by virtue of the sacrament of Holy Orders, have the power to forgive all sins "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."​

​

1462 Forgiveness of sins brings reconciliation with God, but also with the Church. Since ancient times the bishop, visible head of a particular Church, has thus rightfully been considered to be the one who principally has the power and ministry of reconciliation: he is the moderator of the penitential discipline.66 Priests, his collaborators, exercise it to the extent that they have received the commission either from their bishop (or religious superior) or the Pope, according to the law of the Church.67​

​

1468 "The whole power of the sacrament of Penance consists in restoring us to God's grace and joining us with him in an intimate friendship."73 Reconciliation with God is thus the purpose and effect of this sacrament. For those who receive the sacrament of Penance with contrite heart and religious disposition, reconciliation "is usually followed by peace and serenity of conscience with strong spiritual consolation."74 Indeed the sacrament of Reconciliation with God brings about a true "spiritual resurrection," restoration of the dignity and blessings of the life of the children of God, of which the most precious is friendship with God.75​

​

1469 This sacrament reconciles us with the Church. Sin damages or even breaks fraternal communion. the sacrament of Penance repairs or restores it. In this sense it does not simply heal the one restored to ecclesial communion, but has also a revitalizing effect on the life of the Church which suffered from the sin of one of her members.76 Re-established or strengthened in the communion of saints, the sinner is made stronger by the exchange of spiritual goods among all the living members of the Body of Christ, whether still on pilgrimage or already in the heavenly homeland:77​

​

It must be recalled that . . . this reconciliation with God leads, as it were, to other reconciliations, which repair the other breaches caused by sin. the forgiven penitent is reconciled with himself in his inmost being, where he regains his innermost truth. He is reconciled with his brethren whom he has in some way offended and wounded. He is reconciled with the Church. He is reconciled with all creation.78​

​

1470 In this sacrament, the sinner, placing himself before the merciful judgment of God, anticipates in a certain way the judgment to which he will be subjected at the end of his earthly life. For it is now, in this life, that we are offered the choice between life and death, and it is only by the road of conversion that we can enter the Kingdom, from which one is excluded by grave sin.79 In converting to Christ through penance and faith, the sinner passes from death to life and "does not come into judgment."80​

​

The Catechism of the Catholic Church.

It's helpful for me to read these things.

 

[BobRyan]

Has anyone asserted that forgiving is the exclusive activity of priests, pastors, or apostles?

hmmm seems like we have seen that a time or two.

VIII. THE MINISTER OF THIS SACRAMENT
1461 Since Christ entrusted to his apostles the ministry of reconciliation,65 bishops who are their successors, and priests, the bishops' collaborators, continue to exercise this ministry. Indeed bishops and priests, by virtue of the sacrament of Holy Orders, have the power to forgive all sins "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit."

1462 Forgiveness of sins brings reconciliation with God, but also with the Church. Since ancient times the bishop, visible head of a particular Church, has thus rightfully been considered to be the one who principally has the power and ministry of reconciliation: he is the moderator of the penitential discipline.66 Priests, his collaborators, exercise it to the extent that they have received the commission either from their bishop (or religious superior) or the Pope, according to the law of the Church.67

1463 Certain particularly grave sins incur excommunication, the most severe ecclesiastical penalty, which impedes the reception of the sacraments and the exercise of certain ecclesiastical acts, and for which absolution consequently cannot be granted, according to canon law, except by the Pope, the bishop of the place or priests authorized by them. In danger of death any priest, even if deprived of faculties for hearing confessions, can absolve from every sin and excommunication.69

1464 Priests must encourage the faithful to come to the sacrament of Penance and must make themselves available to celebrate this sacrament each time Christians reasonably ask for it.70

1465 When he celebrates the sacrament of Penance, the priest is fulfilling the ministry of the Good Shepherd who seeks the lost sheep, of the Good Samaritan who binds up wounds, of the Father who awaits the prodigal son and welcomes him on his return, and of the just and impartial judge whose judgment is both just and merciful. The priest is the sign and the instrument of God's merciful love for the sinner.

1466 The confessor is not the master of God's forgiveness, but its servant. The minister of this sacrament should unite himself to the intention and charity of Christ.71 He should have a proven knowledge of Christian behavior, experience of human affairs, respect and sensitivity toward the one who has fallen; he must love the truth, be faithful to the Magisterium of the Church, and lead the penitent with patience toward healing and full maturity. He must pray and do penance for his penitent, entrusting him to the Lord's mercy.

1467 Given the delicacy and greatness of this ministry and the respect due to persons, the Church declares that every priest who hears confessions is bound under very severe penalties to keep absolute secrecy regarding the sins that his penitents have confessed to him. He can make no use of knowledge that confession gives him about penitents' lives.72 This secret, which admits of no exceptions, is called the "sacramental seal," because what the penitent has made known to the priest remains "sealed" by the sacrament.

 

[concretecamper]

Yes, "I absolve you," in the sense that I pronounce the absolution. But I do not make it happen; I am announcing what God has already done.

That is what John 20:23 says, where the tense of the verb, which is a perfect passive indicative, if translated accurately into English, would be rendered, "if you forgive the sins of any, they will have been forgiven."

No word game here please


Jn 20:23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

 

[concretecamper]

The absolution is spoken by the priest acting in the person of Christ by his authority as a mercy to the soul who has confessed. It is fair to view this as a work of God through the office and ministry of the priest who acts on behalf of the Church as God's Church.

Of course it is through Christ. However, that does not diminish the power granted to the priest to forgive or retain.

Q. 737. Are the enemies of our religion right when they say man cannot forgive sins?

A. The enemies of our religion are right when they say man cannot forgive sins if they mean that he cannot forgive them by his own power, but they are certainly wrong if they mean that he cannot forgive them even by the power of God, for man can do anything if God gives him the power. The priest does not forgive sins by his own power as man, but by the authority he receives as the minister of God.

Q. 738. How do the priests of the Church exercise the power of forgiving sins?

A. The priests of the Church exercise the power of forgiving sins by hearing the confession of sins, and granting pardon for them as ministers of God and in His name.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

Of course it is through Christ. However, that does not diminish the power granted to the priest to forgive or retain.

The "how" and mechanics of the ministerial usage of the keys depends on the denomination.

All4Christ posted the EO absolution: My spiritual child, [Name], who have confessed to my humble person, I, humble and a sinner, have not power on earth to forgive sins, but God alone; ... May that same God forgive you all things, through me a sinner,...

So in the EO, the priest is a witness to the confession and announces the absolution almost as a bystander (that is not meant as a theological statement but just as my take away).

Lutheran: Small Catechism
What is confession?
Confession consists of two parts. One is that we confess our sins. The other is that we receive the
absolution, that is, forgiveness, from the pastor as from God himself and by no means doubt but
firmly believe that our sins are thereby forgiven before God in heaven.

"Let it be done for you as you believe. And I, by the command of our Lord Jesus Christ, forgive you your sins in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen. Go in peace." (Luther's own basic format)

Lutheran (and possibily Anglican, @Paidiske could comment futher), acts more like Catholic where the pastor / priest is the one proclaiming the absolution, "by virtue of the office" from the 1928 BCP and the 1940 Lutheran Hymnal.

​