The Death and True Resurrection of Jesus.

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

The night Jesus Christ was betrayed,
He and His disciples prepared and kept
[the Lords Passover]. (Matthew 26:18,
Mark 14:12, 16; Luke 22:15)

G3957
πάσχα
pascha
pas'-khah
Of Chaldee origin (compare [H6453]); the Passover (the meal,
the day, the festival or the special sacrifices connected with it):
Total KJV occurrences: 29

The word Pascha would never had been used if this
was something else other then the Passover event.

Christ changed the symbols of the Passover.
Now to eat the bread and drink the wine. On
“the same night in which he Christ was betrayed”
"same night in which he was betrayed took bread.”

God also passes over (forgives) our sins
when we repent of them and come under the
shed blood of Jesus Christ our Passover,
sacrificed for us.

“It is the sacrifice of the Lord’s Passover”
Kept on the 14th, this is God’s Passover.



[Seudah HaMafsekhet] and [fast of the firstborn on the 14th]

-Where is this in the old testament recorded to observe?

The Jews have been known to make there own traditions
other then listed in Leviticus. For example in the time
of Christ, they where keeping Passover a day later
then they did back in the old testament.

[The Lords Passover] is on the start of the 14th, [the Jews
Passover] was being observed instead on the 15th.

(John 2:13) Here it is called “the Jews’ Passover”
—not “the Lord’s Passover” Why is this ?

So you think the lambs were killed on the 13th of Nisan then?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

So no bible verse for observance- ok, A added tradition by the Jews.

And no evidence at all for your "keeping Passover a day later then they did back in the old testament" opinion?

 

[Semper-Fi]

And no evidence at all for your "keeping Passover a day later then they did back in the old testament" opinion?

Again Jesus keep the Lords Passover,
The Jews where Keeping [the Jews Passover]

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Again Jesus keep the Lords Passover,
The Jews where Keeping [the Jews Passover]

The Lord's passover is the passover. So He was keeping His own Passover, is that what you are saying? And who killed their lamb? When was their lamb killed? Please post your timeline...

 

[Semper-Fi]

So you think the lambs were killed on the 13th of Nisan then?

No it was between the days, between the 13th and 14th.

See post 123 please[ as the sun went down]

“at even, at the going down of the sun.”

At that I am going down to bed for the night.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

No it was between the days, between the 13th and 14th.

See post 123 please[ as the sun went down]

“at even, at the going down of the sun.”

When was the Pesakh meal then? Remember 1000s of lambs had to be killed...please post your timeline

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

No it was between the days, between the 13th and 14th.

See post 123 please[ as the sun went down]

“at even, at the going down of the sun.”

At that I am going down to bed for the night.

No it was between the evenings..."bayn haArbayim...after the Tamid

 

[prodromos]

“In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day
of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre”
(Matthew 28:1).


The King James, along with just about every other Bible version, translates the first part of this verse, “In the end of the sabbath” or “after the sabbath.”

In fact, EVERY OTHER BIBLE TRANSLATION

But if you study the Greek text, the word for
sabbath is actually plural! “After the sabbaths,” it should read.

There is no matching plural article so it is not the plural of Sabbath. Every translation gets it right. You get it wrong. My Greek isn't sufficient to explain how a singular Greek word can be spelled the same as one of its plural forms, but it often occurs.

the fact that there were two “sabbaths” this week.

See above

Mark 16:1 says Mary Magdalene and her companions bought spices
“when the sabbath was past.” They were planning to prepare these
ointments and spices so that they might anoint the body of Jesus.

Yet Luke 23:56 says they prepared these spices and then rested
on the weekly Sabbath day. Compare these two texts carefully,

Luke 23:50-56

Now there was a man named Joseph from the Jewish town of Arimathe′a. He was a member of the council, a good and righteous man, who had not consented to their purpose and deed, and he was looking for the kingdom of God. This man went to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then he took it down and wrapped it in a linen shroud, and laid him in a rock-hewn tomb, where no one had ever yet been laid. It was the day of Preparation, and the sabbath was beginning.The women who had come with him from Galilee followed, and saw the tomb, and how his body was laid; then they returned, and prepared spices and ointments.
On the sabbath they rested according to the commandment.​

Luke 24:9-10

and returning from the tomb they told all this to the eleven and to all the rest. Now it was Mary Mag′dalene and Jo-an′na and Mary the mother of James and the other women with them who told this to the apostles​

Mark 15:40-47

There were also women looking on from afar, among whom were Mary Mag′dalene, and Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salo′me, who, when he was in Galilee, followed him, and ministered to him; and also many other women who came up with him to Jerusalem.
And when evening had come, since it was the day of Preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, Joseph of Arimathe′a, a respected member of the council, who was also himself looking for the kingdom of God, took courage and went to Pilate, and asked for the body of Jesus. And Pilate wondered if he were already dead; and summoning the centurion, he asked him whether he was already dead. And when he learned from the centurion that he was dead, he granted the body to Joseph. And he bought a linen shroud, and taking him down, wrapped him in the linen shroud, and laid him in a tomb which had been hewn out of the rock; and he rolled a stone against the door of the tomb. Mary Mag′dalene and Mary the mother of Joses saw where he was laid.​

Mark 16:1-2

And when the sabbath was past, Mary Mag′dalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salo′me, bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him. And very early on the first day of the week they went to the tomb when the sun had risen.​

So Friday night they prepared spices and ointments, but it doesn't make clear whether they had enough, plus they only had a little time after He had been placed in the tomb before sundown when the Sabbath began. After sundown following the Sabbath they were able to purchase additional spices. Otherwise, you would have us believe that these women waited 3 whole days before trying to annoint His body?

 

[DamianWarS]

There is 8 places in the new testament that have (first day of the week),
and they are all a work day, at the start of the work week, nothing more.

Not one of these say it is now a day of worship for today.

It is a day of worship from tradition not from commandment. You seem to have a flawed view that you can't worship God on a "work day"

 

[Jaxxi]

Luke wasn't one of the disciples, and none of the disciples were witness to what is documented in the first 4 chapters of Luke's Gospel.

Cleopas (Luke 24:18), who was one of the seventy who Christ sent out in Luke 10, husband of one of the three Marys who witnessed Christ's crucifixion (Jesus' mother Mary, Mary Magdalene, Mary the wife of Clopas), who tradition holds to be the brother of Joseph.

Are you naming one person, or 5?

 

[prodromos]

Are you naming one person, or 5?

Cleopas is named as one of the disciples Jesus met with on the road to Emmaus. I'm just giving you his background.

 

[Jaxxi]

Yes it does...

What is the point of this thread and what is the correct answer? What is the correct question,? Did Jesus die and Resurrect?

Yes He did.

Do we know when?

Well, it happened in the same week 2000 years ago, around the 14th.

Why is this answer a problem and what does it change for us?

Is Ascension Day still 40 days from Passover? I am just wondering.

 

[Jaxxi]

Cleopas is named as one of the disciples Jesus met with on the road to Emmaus. I'm just giving you his background.

Oh ok thank you. Was he Mary, Lazarus' sister's husband? Or is that a fourth Mary?

 

[prodromos]

What is the point of this thread and what is the correct answer?

The point of this thread is to disparage the traditional celebration of the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ for the last one and a half millenia, all based on fake history and a misunderstanding of the Scriptures. I believe the correct answer to to treat much of what Bro.T posts with a grain of salt.

 

[prodromos]

Oh ok thank you. Was he Mary, Lazarus' sister's husband? Or is that a fourth Mary?

Mary, the wife of Clopas is referred to as the sister of Mary the mother of Jesus. Since siblings are rarely given the same name (boxer George Foreman named his five sons, George), it is obvious that they are not siblings by blood, so it is likely they are termed sisters due to their husbands being brothers. Tradition holds that Clopas is Joseph's younger brother.
Mary and Martha, the sisters of Lazarus were unmarried, as they were all still living in the same house with their brother in Bethany.

 

[truefiction1]

Lets see what the bible says--And God called
the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.

And the evening and the morning were the first day. …
And the evening and the morning were the second day. …
And the evening and the morning were the third day”...
(Genesis 1:4-13).

Notice it: God even spells out how long three days and nights
would take: three periods of light, and three periods of darkness.

“Are there not twelve hours in the day? … But if a man walk
in the night, he stumbleth,” He said in John 11:9-10.

Certainly He knew how long a day was and how long
a night was (12 hours each) when he made it.

From Friday to Sunday is not 3 days per the bible.

It is, actually, because in the Bible, if a thing occurs during any part of one 24 hour day it is accounted for the whole day, including the Eve before. So, a Friday crucifixion encapsulates Thursday evening and a Sunday resurrection encapsulates Saturday evening and Sunday. Thus, His soul was in hell (the heart of the Earth) for three nights and three days, just as He said. That is what the ancient Christian elders knew and where contemporary know-it-alls err.

To better illustrate this I present the following Biblical example:

(1) To us, three days and three nights generally means 72 hours, but we must understand the Bible historically and culturally. For the Jewish mind, this could mean any part of the first day, all of the second day, and any part of the third day. This is obvious by comparing Esther 4:16 and 5:1. Esther mentioned fasting for three days and nights and said that she would then go into the king, which she did, but 5:1 tells us clearly that it was on the third day that she went into the king, not after three days or on the fourth. This simply illustrates the way the Jews reckoned time.

(2) Further, the statement “after three days” could mean to the Jewish mind “on the third day” since any part of that day was considered the third day

 

[Eloy Craft]

I wrote:
why would some vanquished god from a culture that turned to dust long ago own a word or a day used for worship today? Who thinks of conquered pagan gods on Easter Sunday?

People world wide observe so called religious holidays in the name of Christ but none of these are supported by the bible. This lesson hopefully showed that one of them, Easter, is no more than a tradition established by man.

Paul didnt think that way
Acts 17
For as I went through the city and looked carefully at the objects of your worship, I found among them an altar with the inscription, ‘To an unknown god.’ What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

What is the point of this thread and what is the correct answer? What is the correct question,? Did Jesus die and Resurrect?

Yes He did.

Do we know when?

Well, it happened in the same week 2000 years ago, around the 14th.

Why is this answer a problem and what does it change for us?

Is Ascension Day still 40 days from Passover? I am just wondering.

We are trying to establish the correct timeline for Bro T, because his is biblically incorrect for many reasons.

 

[Clare73]

No

the Passover begins at sunset, at the beginning of the 14th.
Jesus died about 3PM, He was placed in the tomb and sealed
by nightfall [in the earth]. The 15th would begin after 6PM

Leviticus 23:6 tells us that the first day of Unleavened Bread
is on the 15th. The Passover and the Days of Unleavened
Bread are different and separate festivals.

the Passover lamb was to be sacrificed “in the evening” (Exodus 12:6) on the 14th day of the first month.
“In the evening” is between sunset and dark.

Deuteronomy 16:6 confirms this when it says the lamb was sacrificed “at even, at the going down of the sun.” [the time between sunset and deep twilight]. This was the Start of the 14th, the Lamb was killed, not at the end.
This was the same time Jesus and his Apostles keep it, and [changed the symbols] the night he was betrayed.

Thanks, that's what I thought, which is why I asked the question.

 

[Bro.T]

I wrote:
why would some vanquished god from a culture that turned to dust long ago own a word or a day used for worship today? Who thinks of conquered pagan gods on Easter Sunday?
Paul didnt think that way
Acts 17
For as I went through the city and looked carefully at the objects of your worship, I found among them an altar with the inscription, ‘To an unknown god.’ What therefore you worship as unknown, this I proclaim to you.

Those where athens and they were trying to learn and understand Paul's God and what he was preaching at that time. Big different to what this thread is about. This is a world wide believe that Jesus died Good Friday and rose Easter Sunday Morning, taught through out world, but the Bible says different. Paul say in 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. And that's what you are doing bearing with it. Because Jesus says in (Matthew 12:38) Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Can you get three days and three night from Good Friday to Easter Sunday Morning? So not only you can't get it with math, but a pagan day get slap on top of it. But the truth don't matter to certain people unless the lied is on them!