Karl - Liberal Backslider said:
I have to disagree with the idea of eventual conversion to YEC. I believe it is fundamentally dangerous to ever associate Christianity with the acceptance of a model of origins that is as scientifically credible as the earth being flat and supported by four elephants on a giant turtle.
It is however YOUR opinion that YEC is as credible as a flat earth/four elephants on a giant turtle. I admit YEC isnt currently scientifically credible, but it is certainly better supported than the flat earth/giant turtle models.
I don't know why or how God made the world 6-7,000 years ago or why or how the world wide flood came about 4,500 years ago. All I do is accept that He did do that. Remember our God is so amazing that He can do things far above our logic and understanding. And for the world to be made 7,000 years ago and for the evidence to show otherwise may not mean God is lying or deceiving us. He certainly wants us to have the option of beleiving in evolution so that people can have the freedom to choose atheism. He left evidence which 'can' be intrepreted as evidence for evolution, but this evidence must also genuinely point to something else otherwise God is deceiving us by planting false evidence.
Creationism as we understand science I would say is false. But I put my faith in the knowledge that human beings still dont understand everything about science yet. Maybe there is hard evidence for creationism somewhere we have not found yet. Maybe we are misunderstanding how carbon dating or other scientific principles works. We have never been able to measure the effects of a flood on the scale of Noahs flood. Maybe water in such quantity as a worldwide flood has different properties than water in local floods. Maybe the water of Noahs time was different back then. The water of Noahs flood could have had a chemical that has an eroding effect on rock and soil. This may be enough to carve out the grand canyon within weeks. And the reason we dont see this chemical in water today is because that chemical disapeared either naturally or because God disabled it in order to prevent the chemical from eroding the entire earth.
In this case God hiding the evidence for this chemical is not deception, but done for a good reason. (to stop the world from being completely eroded) It so happens to also serve the purpose of giving man the freedom to reject God. But this would not be the only reason. So therefore God is not lying.
I have so much sympathy for those who struggle with YEC. I was once as avid beleiver in evolution as Back-slider or any of the other TE's are. I remember argueing with YEC's on these very boards and I used the same points as you make. However a reading of the Bible coupled with answer to prayer and conviction of the Holy Spirit has made me into a YEC for life.
I admit that YEC is impossible if we accept that the only scientific process' that have been discovered or thought of by humans are the only process' there are or have been. But if we accept there could be something that happened/happens that we have discovered yet or ever will discover then YEC becomes a remote possibility.
YEC through current scientific understanding is not possible.
YEC + scientific process X is possible.
I dont know what that process is and probably never will know. But I trust that God has used it. Creationist in a sense have their own 'missing link'. But I beleive our God is an intelligent God and has invented something beyond our current understanding that no one has probably even thought of. He has done this before. Before the 1930's many people rejected the authority of the Bible because of a prediction about the End Times. Revelation describes the dead bodies of two witness' in Juruselum. It then goes on to say that for three days the whole world will stare at these dead bodies in Juruselem and rejoice. Many people rejected this prophecy because they thought 'how can people all over the world be looking at the same two bodies in one city at the same time?' Isnt it impossible for people in Russia, Japan and Brazil to all be staring at something that is happening in just one location Jerusulum? This prophecy turned the Bible into a joke. But the Bible beleivers of the time accepted that whilst they didnt understand how this was possible, they understood that under the might of God it was possible and that God would know how. Then they invented television! Now that once discredited verse has become a propechy highlighted to show the prediction of the invention of media technology. I am trusting God has done the same with creation.
I had to reject evolution because it makes such a mess of theology and the Bible. I have also found evolutionary thinking to be dangerous in so many ways. I remember when I beleived in evolution I heard the claim that black people are less intelligent than whites and I remember thinking 'under evolutionary theory this could be a possibility'. For a long time I had uncomfortble thoughts that there might be a bit of thruth in this theory. I feared it might be true and if it was proved truth the racism that would result would be horrendous. I began to question if blacks were an inferior race. I was almost on track to looking down on black people. But Creationism, even if false, provides a far healthier way of veiwing the different races. From what Gods Word says about us all coming from One Blood provides no room for thinking that some races are inherently superior to others. It is easier to see blacks and Asians as relatives and equals under YEC.
People could also attempt justify rape and pologamy from evolutionary thinking. Rape becomes a way of surviving and continueing the genetic line, rather than an abominable act. And under evolution it is very easy to excuse men sewing their wild oats. Men dont sleep around because they are in sinful rebellion against their Creator. Men sleep around to ensure plenty of women are impregnated in order to keep the genetic line going. Under evolutionary thinking (even whilst wearing a Christian cap) men sleeping around isnt wrong, its nature taking its course.Pologamy becomes natural. Why not let the local male stud have a one night stand with your daughter? To disaprove would be to go against the evolutionary process and nature itself.
As for male rapists, they are not demon possessed sinners, they are fine examples of genetically healthy predators just trying to survive in the evolutionary world.
I am not saying that TEs or even atheistic evolutionists think any of the above are morally good. But evolutionary theory would imply that such acts are okay. So even if evolution is true, the evolutonary worldveiw is not a healthy or positive one to have. Look at Hitler for example!
One final point is that if theistic evolution is true then God set up the Laws of Evolutiuon and the Law of the Survival of the fittest. And yet the teachings of Christ teach us to be humble and go against the law of the jungle. Jesus taught us that it is better to give than to receive. This isnt the case according to the laws of nature that His Father set up. To be a giver will result in extinction. Why would God set up a natural law in order to set up a spiritual law that contradicts it?
Jesus often said "do not be like the world" and "resist the god (Satan) of this world". But if you beleive in TE why reject the ways of the world if they are part of Gods natural law? Under TE it also becomes God, not Man who gave the world into the hands of Satan.
But under Creationism whilst the laws of surivival of the selfish still apply to the world, this is only a result of the Fall. Adam and Eves rebellion against God placed humanity into the rat race.
