The Danger of Pre-Tribulation Rapture Doctrine

[Humble_Disciple]

The danger of pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is that believers will not be prepared for the time of great tribulation, expecting that God will just rescue them before anything really bad happens.

The early church fathers and the early Protestant Reformers taught that the rapture will occur after the great tribulation. It wasn't until the modern doctrine of Dispensationalism that belief in a pre-trib rapture became popular, and there are serious biblical problems with Dispensationalism, from a traditional Reformed perspective.

The popular acceptance of pre-trib teaching today seems to be an outgrowth of modern materialism and consumerism, that we shouldn't have to suffer for the Gospel. Just look at how much money has been made by the Left Behind franchise.

Are there any Biblical passages which prove, definitely, a pre-tribulation rapture?

 

[Humble_Disciple]

In Matthew 24:13, when speaking of the time of great tribulation, Jesus says "He who endures to the end will be saved." How does this square with the pre-trib rapture teaching that we don't need to endure to the end, but instead will be rescued before anything bad happens?

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

What danger are you talking about and what should we do about it? Are you suggesting we have 7 years of food on hand at all times, or what exactly? Preterists believe most of Revelation has already occurred during AD 70, Idealists believe that Revelation is just a symbolic story of the battle between good and evil, Historicists believe all of Revelation has already been fulfilled, so that is three more groups in the not expecting a tribulation is coming at all.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

What danger are you talking about and what should we do about it? Are you suggesting we have 7 years of food on hand at all times, or what exactly? Preterists believe most of Revelation has already occurred during AD 70, Idealists believe that Revelation is just a symbolic story of the battle between good and evil, Historicists believe all of Revelation has already been fulfilled, so that is three more groups in the not expecting a tribulation is coming at all.

I think you missed a fourth group...Seventh Day Adventists believe differently again (only because you specify A.D 70 in first category). For us, A.D 70 has a type vs antitype relationship with end times. Jesus was illustrating a dual prophecy when he predicted the fall of Jerusalem...he also paralleled that with the end of time just before the Second Coming.

Seventh Day Adventists believe that Jesus entered the most holy place in the heavenly sanctuary in 1844 and started the investigative judgement. I believe we are unique in that Heavenly Sanctuary doctrine.

The tribulation and second coming are just around the corner (at what point in the future that is no one knows, but that we should always be ready anyway)

 

[Davy]

The danger of pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is that believers will not be prepared for the time of great tribulation, expecting that God will just rescue them before anything really bad happens.

The early church fathers and the early Protestant Reformers taught that the rapture will occur after the great tribulation. It wasn't until the modern doctrine of Dispensationalism that belief in a pre-trib rapture became popular, and there are serious biblical problems with Dispensationalism, from a traditional Reformed perspective.


The popular acceptance of pre-trib teaching today seems to be an outgrowth of modern materialism and consumerism, that we shouldn't have to suffer for the Gospel. Just look at how much money has been made by the Left Behind franchise.

Are there any Biblical passages which prove, definitely, a pre-tribulation rapture?

Yes, pre-trib theory is a trap. God allows it because He will try those who would rather listen to man instead of Him in His Word.

Thing is though, the trap for the end God also allows is the coming of the Antichrist in the role of Christ. The coming pseudo-Messiah to Jerusalem is going to have power to do great signs and wonders and miracles to fool the majority into believing he is God. This point was covered in Christ's Olivet discourse and by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2, and by John in Revelation 13. The only ones who don't know about this are those who rely on men's doctrines and religious systems to save them from they don't know what.

But those who heed The Father and His Son in His Word will recognize the real danger during the tribulation of the pseudo-Christ playing God in Jerusalem.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Yes, pre-trib theory is a trap. God allows it because He will try those who would rather listen to man instead of Him in His Word.

Thing is though, the trap for the end God also allows is the coming of the Antichrist in the role of Christ. The coming pseudo-Messiah to Jerusalem is going to have power to do great signs and wonders and miracles to fool the majority into believing he is God. This point was covered in Christ's Olivet discourse and by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2, and by John in Revelation 13. The only ones who don't know about this are those who rely on men's doctrines and religious systems to save them from they don't know what.

But those who heed The Father and His Son in His Word will recognize the real danger during the tribulation of the pseudo-Christ playing God in Jerusalem.

Interesting thought about this...I suspect that the false prophet talked about in Revelation is Islam. It ticks the 5 boxes for the false prophet

1. The False Prophet will attempt to look like, claim to be connected to, or associated in some way to the
lamb (Revelation 13:11)
2. The False Prophet deceives the world. (Revelation 13:14)
3. The False Prophet sets up an image of false worship to the false god. (Revelation 13:14‐15)
4. The False Prophet creates a mark, or statement of faith, to the false god. (Revelation 13:16‐18)
5. Demonic spirits and messages come out of the False Prophet mouth. (Revelation 16:13‐14)

To illustrate a few of above criteria being fulfilled

- Muslims face the black stone in Mecca to pray...they are praying to an idol and Muhammad.
- the Islamic faith does not believe jesus is the Messiah. Muhammad is God's messenger
- Muslim are expected to say the Shahada (the Islamic statement of faith) in their last breath before death, the second part of which states...
"I bear witness that Muhammad is the messenger of God"

Very interesting article about this...Jesus Warning Mohammad False Prophet Is Fulfilled - [Revelation-Now]
I have long suspected Islam had another role in Bible prophecy...were not the crusades for example essentially about stopping them taking control of Jerusalem and spreading throughout the world?

 

[1watchman]

If we put the end times in biblical sequence, rather than man's ideas, we see the picture quite well.

The Church (bride of Christ --redeemed souls) will be translated to Heaven (often called 'rapture') "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye" as God says (no time to prepare). Prep time is NOW!
Then the seven years of "the great tribulation" will begin on earth with the "beasts" of Satan governing and killing all who are 'left behind' and refuse to yield to his agents (who will all end up in Hell) --much suffering to lost mankind. The Church will remain in Heaven during this period until the "Millennium" begins, when Jesus Christ returns with His "bride" and the heavenly host (as the book of Revelation shows), and His reign in righteousness for a "thousand years" with peace on earth, which was His intended place before man rebelled and killed their Savior (who arose and ascended to Heaven).

After the Millennium time on earth, the Lord Jesus will take His "bride" --the Church, and return to Heaven, and God will continue what He began with Israel in the beginning, which new people will be devoted (as Revelation shows) and worship under God on earth as was intended in the beginning of people on earth. After that the Bible picture ends with eternity. One can see the full picture by studying our Holy Bible. So, one NEEDS to be sure they are saved now while there is time (note John 3; John 14; etc.).

 

[AdamjEdgar]

If we put the end times in biblical sequence, rather than man's ideas, we see the picture quite well.

The Church (bride of Christ --redeemed souls) will be translated to Heaven (often called 'rapture') "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye" as God says (no time to prepare). Prep time is NOW!
Then the seven years of "the great tribulation" will begin on earth with the "beasts" of Satan governing and killing all who are 'left behind' and refuse to yield to his agents (who will all end up in Hell) --much suffering to lost mankind. The Church will remain in Heaven during this period until the "Millennium" begins, when Jesus Christ returns with His "bride" and the heavenly host (as the book of Revelation shows), and His reign in righteousness for a "thousand years" with peace on earth, which was His intended place before man rebelled and killed their Savior (who arose and ascended to Heaven).

After the Millennium time on earth, the Lord Jesus will take His "bride" --the Church, and return to Heaven, and God will continue what He began with Israel in the beginning, which new people will be devoted (as Revelation shows) and worship under God on earth as was intended in the beginning of people on earth. After that the Bible picture ends with eternity. One can see the full picture by studying our Holy Bible.

As always..a literal sequential reading of the Revelation timeline according to chapter and verse numbers. A great idea with a huge problem...it doesn't work. Doing what you have done causes enormous discrepancies in Bible consistency...it starts to unravel itself and disagree with other Bible teachings from other books in its pages.
Sorry but this is just plain wrong.

 

[public hermit]

danger of pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is that believers will not be prepared for the time of great tribulation, expecting that God will just rescue them before anything really bad happens

I definitely agree with the sentiment of your post. I think belief in the rapture gives a false sense of security with an implicit assumption that Christians won't have to struggle to live as followers of Jesus Christ in the world. Love is hard in a loveless world. If the assumption is God intends to save us from tribulations, why prepare? Why strive against the grain? The rapture is not a helpful focus. The cross is a better one.

 

[Clare73]

If we put the end times in biblical sequence, rather than man's ideas, we see the picture quite well.

The Church (bride of Christ --redeemed souls) will be translated to Heaven (often called 'rapture') "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye" as God says (no time to prepare). Prep time is NOW!

Please present a verse which specifically locates the rapture (translation) before the "tribulation."

The question is: when does this rapture (translation) take place?

Authoritative NT teaching locates

the rapture with the resurrection at the Second Coming of Christ (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

with his trumpet call; i.e., summons to Judgment (Matthew 24:31; 1 Corinthians 15:52;
1 Thessalonians 4:16),

in the last day (John 6:40, 44, 54, 11:24), which is the Final Judgment, the day of the Lord
(1 Thessalonians 5:2-6; Luke 21:34-36; Matthew 24:42-44),

at the end of time.

Resurrection --> Rapture --> Second Coming --> Final Judgment --> End of Time.

Anything not in agreement with authorittive NT apostolic teaching is contra-Biblical.

the seven years of "the great tribulation" will begin on earth

Where do we find this "seven year great tribulation" in Scripture, or is it unrelated texts men have strung together from the word of God to create their own doctrine?

]with the "beasts" of Satan governing and killing all who are 'left behind' and refuse to yield to his agents (who will all end up in Hell) --much suffering to lost mankind. The Church will remain in Heaven during this period until the "Millennium" begins, when Jesus Christ returns with His "bride" and the heavenly host (as the book of Revelation shows), and His reign in righteousness for a "thousand years" with peace on earth, which was His intended place before man rebelled and killed their Savior (who arose and ascended to Heaven).

After the Millennium time on earth, the Lord Jesus will take His "bride" --the Church, and return to Heaven, and God will continue what He began with Israel in the beginning, which new people will be devoted (as Revelation shows) and worship under God on earth as was intended in the beginning of people on earth. After that the Bible picture ends with eternity. One can see the full picture by studying our Holy Bible. So, one NEEDS to be sure they are saved now while there is time (note John 3; John 14; etc.).

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Please present a verse which specifically locates the rapture (translation) before the "tribulation."

The question is: when does this rapture (translation) take place?

That's exactly the question I'm asking. I'm not denying that there will be a rapture. I'm just questioning the teaching of dispensationalists that the rapture will precede the great tribulation. No one believed, as far as I know, in a pre-tribulation rapture before the 1800s when dispensationalists "discovered" the doctrine.

 

[Humble_Disciple]

Can anyone please point me to any passages of scripture which prove a pretribulation rapture? How can we be prepared for the coming Antichrist if we just expect that God will make us disappear before he arrives?

 

[Davy]

Interesting thought about this...I suspect that the false prophet talked about in Revelation is Islam. It ticks the 5 boxes for the false prophet

1. The False Prophet will attempt to look like, claim to be connected to, or associated in some way to the
lamb (Revelation 13:11)

Not at all. Where are you guys getting all this 'false prophet does this and that' stuff?

There's only two Revelation passages that even refer to the idea of a "false prophet" for the end, and one reveals a working of miracles, which the "another beast" (dragon) does, and the other passage is about the false prophet and beast together going into the lake of fire and destroyed on the day of Christ's return (Revelation 16:13-14; Revelation 19:20). The false prophet and beast are both ROLES that Satan as the "dragon" will play. That is why it's the "another beast" (dragon, i.e., Satan) that is shown doing the miracles in Rev.13, and in Rev.16:13.

And because the false prophet and beast go into the lake of fire at Christ's coming, that shows they cannot be flesh born men, because NO FLESH BORN is judged and sentenced to perish in the lake of fire until AFTER... Christ's future "thousand years" reign of Rev.20. Only Satan and his angels have been judged to perish already. Not even Judas has been condemned to perish yet.

 

[miamited]

The danger of pre-tribulation rapture doctrine is that believers will not be prepared for the time of great tribulation, expecting that God will just rescue them before anything really bad happens.

The early church fathers and the early Protestant Reformers taught that the rapture will occur after the great tribulation. It wasn't until the modern doctrine of Dispensationalism that belief in a pre-trib rapture became popular, and there are serious biblical problems with Dispensationalism, from a traditional Reformed perspective.

The popular acceptance of pre-trib teaching today seems to be an outgrowth of modern materialism and consumerism, that we shouldn't have to suffer for the Gospel. Just look at how much money has been made by the Left Behind franchise.

Are there any Biblical passages which prove, definitely, a pre-tribulation rapture?

Hi humble disciple,

Then again, they may just say, "Man!!! As bad as this is, I'm sure glad I won't be here when the tribulation gets here." Not even knowing or understanding that they are living in the days of the great tribulation.

God bless,
Ted

 

[1watchman]

As always..a literal sequential reading of the Revelation timeline according to chapter and verse numbers. A great idea with a huge problem...it doesn't work. Doing what you have done causes enormous discrepancies in Bible consistency...it starts to unravel itself and disagree with other Bible teachings from other books in its pages.
Sorry but this is just plain wrong.

Obviously, you do not know Holy Scripture well. I pray for your good!

 

[Humble_Disciple]

I am perfectly willing to believe in a pre-tribulation rapture if it can be proven from scripture. I would read the relevant Bible passages and then pray about it.

 

[1watchman]

Good thought, Humble! You might look too at the Concise Bible Dictionary and other studies by sound scholars ---see Bible Truth Publishers, Addison, IL. I am sure of what I have learned over many years of Bible study. The Revelation book also makes it clear of the sequence of events. Trust God always to preserve His redeemed saints today from "the wrath to come", as He says.

 

[Davy]

Good thought, Humble! You might look too at the Concise Bible Dictionary and other studies by sound scholars ---see Bible Truth Publishers, Addison, IL. I am sure of what I have learned over many years of Bible study. The Revelation book also makes it clear of the sequence of events. Trust God always to preserve His redeemed saints today from "the wrath to come", as He says.

That's still a reliance on what men say, and not keeping directly to what The Word of God says. We can listen to men's teachings, but we are always, and I mean always... to confirm a truth in God's Word directly, like those at Berea did.

The Pre-tribulational Rapture Theory wasn't even taught in a Christian Church until the 1830's in Great Britain. Men can say all they want that the doctrine existed with the early Church fathers, but it cannot be found in any of their writings. The Christian Church for 1,800 years held to a post-tribulation coming of Christ and gathering of His Church. Then comes along certain ones in Great Britain like Edward Irving and John Nelson Darby, and we are to suddenly just believe them and their followers after them?

 

[Davy]

Biblical Proof the Pre-trib Rapture theory is false:

In Matthew 24:29-31 and Mark 13:24-27, Lord Jesus while upon the Mount of Olives with His disciples, and they asked Him about the sign of His coming, revealed the order of events for the end of this world, just prior to His return. This section of Bible Scripture is commonly called the Olivet Discourse. Lord Jesus was giving seven main Signs of the end His Church is to be watching so as to not be deceived. Those Signs parallel the Seals given in Revelation 6.

The last Sign He gave was that of His return and gathering of His Church, one version in Matthew 24:29-31, and another version in Mark 13:24-27. The act of gathering the Church has two different events that align with what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the gathering of the Church.

Matthew 24:31 = the gathering of the 'asleep' saints that Paul mentioned at the resurrection. Paul said in 1 Thess.4 that Jesus brings these 'asleep' saints with Him when He returns. That means He brings them from the heavenly dimension with Him on the way to earth.

Mark 13:27 = those still alive on earth on the day of Christ's coming. These are "caught up" to Jesus according to Apostle Paul in 1 Thess.4., and with the asleep saints with Jesus.


The Pre-trib Rapture school admits what Apostle Paul taught in 1 Thessalonians 4 about the gathering of Christ's Church. But they REFUSE to believe what Lord Jesus taught about it in His Olivet Discourse, even though what Lord Jesus taught is actually what Apostle Paul ALSO taught. The Pre-trib Rapture school instead tells the lie that what Jesus said in His Olivet Discourse is NOT for The Church, but is for the Jews only! That is an obvious LIE against Lord Jesus, especially since Lord Jesus was covering the Seals of Revelation 6 which is definitely... about the end of this world Signs He gave His... Church!

So we don't need to read 13 books in Tim LaHaye's Left Behind series nor watch his movies, nor study all sorts of commentaries by men that lead away from the simplicity of Bible Scripture. All one need do is simply STAY with what God's Word as written declares, and that's actually pretty easy for those who take the time to study for themselves and discipline themselves in God's Word.

 

[1watchman]

One should study what the scholars have also shown! The so-called 'church fathers' have not always been Bible scholars, and one needs to see the sequence as shown in the book of Revelation. The Church "born again" saints will be called up BEFORE the seven years of Tribulation falls on false christendom and other religious idealists. Read the Bible in full and learn what God says ---not what so-called religious 'fathers' have been promoting ---a scheme of Satan to keep man from seeing the need to come to Christ TODAY. When the Church is called up (referred to as 'rapture' ---pure joy) ---"in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye" --1 Cor. 15:52) the seven years of 'trib.' will begin ---then it is too late for the religionists left behind. After that seven years of bondage by the two "beasts" described, the "millennium" (one thousand years of reign by our Lord Jesus Christ) will begin when He comes with His "bride" to establish His rightful place over earth. After that, He will deliver up the Kingdom to His Father, as shown, and return with His "bride" to Heaven. There will thereafter be an earthly people under restored Israel under God, and a heavenly people with Christ in Heaven. I hope you will read the sound ministry on this, and STOP listening to false religions by many in christendom today. I will pray for you.

I will not keep defending the Bible over this with the false teachers today in christendom here.