The Danger of Creationism

[Occams Barber]

Not what I said.

This is what you said:

But as for that things were created, see Bl. John Dun Scotus', as for how things came into being in time,

If you don't mean what you said perhaps you could explain what you did mean.

OB

 

[Abaxvahl]

Concession accepted.
Let me help you out:

EpicScore said: ↑

Creation Ministries, especially, has always been careful to distinguish operational science and historical science.
​

pitabread said: ↑

That's a bogus distinction though. This just reinforces the notion that creationist organizations are peddling misinformation about science.

This is misinformation.​

You said:

How is it bogus or misinfo?​

SO, it has everything to do with what you said.

I said nothing concerning whether or not creationism or evolution was true, I was asking Pitabread why he thought a distinction was bogus or misinfo, and he answered. I have no idea how asking for evidence for one or the other has anything to do with that, but go ahead. God bless.

 

[Abaxvahl]

This is what you said:

But as for that things were created, see Bl. John Dun Scotus', as for how things came into being in time,

If you don't mean what you said perhaps you could explain what you did mean.

OB

The guy said "what evidence is there for creation" and so I said for evidence that things were created see Bl. John Dun Scotus, which refers to God creating things. The second part of what I said refers to the evolution/creationist debate, which is separate from whether or not things were created, but is about how they were created.

 

[Occams Barber]

so I said for evidence that things were created see Bl. John Dun Scotus, which refers to God creating things.

Evidence that things were created by God is the same as evidence for Creationism since Creationism alleges that God created everything (in six days). Evolution, on the other hand, only refers to the development of various lifeforms through genetic change combined with natural selection. Evolution only deals with a part of Creationism. The remainder is connected with issues like the age and origin of the Universe (i.e. the 'Big Bang') and the concept of abiogenesis (life emerging from non-living chemical processes).

You appear to be confused by this.

OB

 

[tas8831]

I said nothing concerning whether or not creationism or evolution was true, I was asking Pitabread why he thought a distinction was bogus or misinfo, and he answered. I have no idea how asking for evidence for one or the other has anything to do with that, but go ahead. God bless.

It should have been obvious - Epic claimed 'historical science' relies on testimony and memoirs and the like, whereas 'operational science' relies on experiments and such. It was a direct question re: that distinction, but whatever.

 

[Abaxvahl]

Evidence that things were created by God is the same as evidence for Creationism since Creationism alleges that God created everything (in six days). Evolution, on the other hand, only refers to the development of various lifeforms through genetic change combined with natural selection. Evolution only deals with a part of Creationism. The remainder is connected with issues like the age and origin of the Universe (i.e. the 'Big Bang') and the concept of abiogenesis (life emerging from non-living chemical processes).

You appear to be confused by this.

OB

I am not confused unless my use of terms is faulty which I learned. Creation = God making all things, however this was made. Creationism = a specific interpretation of how this was done (six days, young Earth maybe, etc). Evolution = a specific interpretation of how this was done concerning lifeforms as you said.

There are theistic evolutionists who hold that God made all things but not how creationists do (a la Ken Ham). This is why I distinguish between God making all things and how things came into being in time (people have varying ideas about this). To prove that God made all things is to me just part of proving God's existence, hence the reference to Bl. John Dun Scotus. It does not say how this was done.

As to how it was done I have no idea and am studying, which was all I said to the other guy. I have bits and pieces of knowledge from my studies but nothing firm enough or whole enough to hold definitely Creationism (a la Ken Ham, or someone else) or to the theory of evolution.

 

[Occams Barber]

I am not confused unless my use of terms is faulty which I learned. Creation = God making all things, however this was made. Creationism = a specific interpretation of how this was done (six days, young Earth maybe, etc). Evolution = a specific interpretation of how this was done concerning lifeforms as you said.

There are theistic evolutionists who hold that God made all things but not how creationists do (a la Ken Ham). This is why I distinguish between God making all things and how things came into being in time (people have varying ideas about this). To prove that God made all things is to me just part of proving God's existence, hence the reference to Bl. John Dun Scotus. It does not say how this was done.

As to how it was done I have no idea and am studying, which was all I said to the other guy. I have bits and pieces of knowledge from my studies but nothing firm enough or whole enough to hold definitely Creationism (a la Ken Ham, or someone else) or to the theory of evolution.

Can I respectfully suggest that you gain a little more knowledge about Creationism and things like the Big Bang, Abiogenesis and Evolution to assist yourself in these discussions.

It's a common practice for Creationists to engage in these debates when it is patently obvious that they have no idea what they are discussing. This is not just my observation.

Another approach is to ask questions rather than offering opinions based on limited knowledge. You'll find that the people here will be quite willing to help without demanding that you accept Evolution.

OB

 

[Abaxvahl]

Can I respectfully suggest that you gain a little more knowledge about Creationism and things like the Big Bang, Abiogenesis and Evolution to assist yourself in these discussions.

It's on the list, although I am not a creationist (unless all Christians count as some version of it). Thank you and God bless.

 

[Occams Barber]

It's on the list, although I am not a creationist (unless all Christians count as some version of it). Thank you and God bless.

No - Christian does not equal Creationist and Atheist does not equal evolutionist.

There are many Christians on CF, and out in real life, who are quite comfortable with evolution.

You might like to visit Biologos for a Christian interpretation of things evolutionary. The site is run by qualified (Christian) scientists and has an excellent reputation.
BioLogos - God's Word. God's World. - BioLogos

OB

 

[Abaxvahl]

No - Christian does not equal Creationist and Atheist does not equal evolutionist.

There are many Christians on CF, and out in real life, who are quite comfortable with evolution.

You might like to visit Biologos for a Christian interpretation of things evolutionary. The sight is run by qualified (Christian) scientists and has an excellent reputation.
BioLogos - God's Word. God's World. - BioLogos

OB

Thank you for the resource!

 

[pitabread]

Hi there is a documentary called the report from Iron Mountain or perhaps the Iron Mountain report which was made in the early 80's based on a 1960's summit that came together to strategize a plan of how to implement a global government. The findings of this summit determined governments exist to protect people from a common threat. The theorized that the weather and environment were the best places to create real or imagined common threats that would rationalize a global government effort against the common threat.


Now climate models over long periods of time show ice ages over the earth and also great green times when the whole world was a green lush climate. These histories show extreme shifts in global weather apart from man made emissions are normal and part of earths history.


I can look to others who warned about what the coming global agenda is who have accurately predicted many things. Look up the 45 goals of teh communist party and see when they were published and look at the list and you can see most of the objectives are now achieved and at the time written no one believed the threat. So the same projections now made by the likes of the World Economic Forum and teh UN are tipping their hands and these guys are not benevolent. This will be the worst period of human suffering in human history. when the US dollar goes into hyperinflation what do you think comes next? The reset is coming and it is predicted in the Bible you can believe the experts in the white suites or listen to Jesus who said do not be deceived.


These same scientist who are trying to use their version of the facts are also on board with the LGTBQ agenda which is completely contradictory to science as Male and Female are distinct in their biology. Now this is the spiritual foundation of the science you want to follow and lets not talk about the chemtrailing of the planet which can be proven by well water samples and soils samples to prove that aluminum barium and struatium and other metallic compounds have been released intentionally into the atmosphere and then into the soil and water. These factors are not investigated by the media and I have seen the spike in the samples and the patent applications that note chemtrails can be used as weapons systems and climate control. So is it the carbon we need to shut down or perhaps look into what those planes are spraying in the sky all over the planet.

Conspiracy theory forum is over there --> Conspiracy Theories

 

[Brian Mcnamee]

Conspiracy theory forum is over there --> Conspiracy Theories

You live in Canada which is all in with Trudeau on the global reset agenda. The Bible is clear a one world government with one head and 10 kings is in place during the tribulation. Canada will soon be locking up its own citizens who refuse the coming mandates. The current events are arcing directly over the prescribed prophetic path. Jesus noted that many would be deceived at this time and Dan 8 notes sinister schemes will be in operation as well as psalm 2 talking about the nations taking counsel against the LORD and His annointed also at the time the kingdom comes. Since you are agnostic I assume you are largely ignorant of Bible prophecy and the Bible prophecy describes the same thing as the great reset which you dismiss as a conspiracy theory. How do you think the world would handle it if the US dollar goes into hyperinflation? Do you think it is possible for the worlds reserve currency to collapse and it not effect all the nations? Since all nations are using fiat money that is backed by nothing this is what the Bible describes to come.

Rev 6
1 Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals;[fn] and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, “Come and see.” 2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.
When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.”[fn] 4 Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.
5 When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart[fn] of wheat for a denarius,[fn] and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.”
7 When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” 8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.

My answers could be both in economics as well as eschotology. These things are coming upon the earth and are about here. Look up teh great reset and try to understand what the changes will be and then come back and discuss what you think.

 

[Estrid]

You live in Canada which is all in with Trudeau on the global reset agenda. The Bible is clear a one world government with one head and 10 kings is in place during the tribulation. Canada will soon be locking up its own citizens who refuse the coming mandates. The current events are arcing directly over the prescribed prophetic path. Jesus noted that many would be deceived at this time and Dan 8 notes sinister schemes will be in operation as well as psalm 2 talking about the nations taking counsel against the LORD and His annointed also at the time the kingdom comes. Since you are agnostic I assume you are largely ignorant of Bible prophecy and the Bible prophecy describes the same thing as the great reset which you dismiss as a conspiracy theory. How do you think the world would handle it if the US dollar goes into hyperinflation? Do you think it is possible for the worlds reserve currency to collapse and it not effect all the nations? Since all nations are using fiat money that is backed by nothing this is what the Bible describes to come.

Rev 6
1 Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals;[fn] and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, “Come and see.” 2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.
When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.”[fn] 4 Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.
5 When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart[fn] of wheat for a denarius,[fn] and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.”
7 When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” 8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.

My answers could be both in economics as well as eschotology. These things are coming upon the earth and are about here. Look up teh great reset and try to understand what the changes will be and then come back and discuss what you think.

And your answer could be wrong ,but for
sure it is wildly off topic.

Do you have a contribution to the topic?

 

[pitabread]

You live in Canada which is all in with Trudeau on the global reset agenda. The Bible is clear a one world government with one head and 10 kings is in place during the tribulation. Canada will soon be locking up its own citizens who refuse the coming mandates. The current events are arcing directly over the prescribed prophetic path. Jesus noted that many would be deceived at this time and Dan 8 notes sinister schemes will be in operation as well as psalm 2 talking about the nations taking counsel against the LORD and His annointed also at the time the kingdom comes. Since you are agnostic I assume you are largely ignorant of Bible prophecy and the Bible prophecy describes the same thing as the great reset which you dismiss as a conspiracy theory. How do you think the world would handle it if the US dollar goes into hyperinflation? Do you think it is possible for the worlds reserve currency to collapse and it not effect all the nations? Since all nations are using fiat money that is backed by nothing this is what the Bible describes to come.

Rev 6
1 Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals;[fn] and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, “Come and see.” 2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.
When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.”[fn] 4 Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.
5 When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart[fn] of wheat for a denarius,[fn] and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.”
7 When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” 8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.

My answers could be both in economics as well as eschotology. These things are coming upon the earth and are about here. Look up teh great reset and try to understand what the changes will be and then come back and discuss what you think.

Not the topic of this thread. Take it the conspiracy theory forum.

 

[SkyWriting]

A single F-35 costs the taxpayers ~78 million dollars. They were behind schedule and do not perform as advertised. Maintenance costs appear to be 50% more than had been planned for, and may become unsustainably expensive in the next 15 years. And that is just one of the costly weapons systems that Congress has no problem footing the bill for - with your tax money, that is. We shell out more than 3 times what China does on defense, and more than the next 17 countries combined - all of which offer their citizens universal health care of some sort.
You OK with that?

Oh. I've mentioned that the military should be defunded in favor of healthcare development. I'd like to see us pull out of other countries and set up hospitals here for people to get repaired here after we do. For profit and non-profit healthcare, either one.

 

[Estrid]

Oh. I've mentioned that the military should be defunded in favor of healthcare development.

Do that and there won't even be time to start
on "health care development"

 

[Mark Quayle]

OK, well then surely you can provide links to these to the relevant publications of SCIENTISTS AND EXPERTS, DOCTORS IN THAT PARTICULAR FIELD and then explain to us all why what they claim is correct.

Funny p here you are deferring to SCIENTISTS AND EXPERTS... IN THAT PARTICULAR FIELD whereas you reject out of hand SCIENTISTS AND EXPERTS...IN THAT PARTICULAR FIELD when it comes to things like evolution.

Funny how cognitive bias works.

See, here's the thing. I explain to you why I don't believe something, and you want this to be a debate where one of us wins the argument about whether or not the vaccines are worth it. You've got me wrong. I don't need to keep a library of references and links, because I'm not trying to prove anything, unless it is simply that I don't see enough reason to get the vaccine, and I am even generous enough to tell you WHY I don't.

 

[EpicScore]

It should have been obvious - Epic claimed 'historical science' relies on testimony and memoirs and the like, whereas 'operational science' relies on experiments and such. It was a direct question re: that distinction, but whatever.

My mistake. Actually, when I was talking about testimony and memoirs, I was talking about actual history and not historical science. I admit that did go a bit off-tangent there, but what I meant is that historical science deals with speculations about events in the past that can't be re-created in the present, and as a result its claims cannot be tested, verified or falsified in the same way a chemical analysis can. It's a bit more like forensics, I guess, in that while DNA testing can reveal a lot about a crime scene, to reconstruct the story, the police usually rely on other circumstantial evidences outside of the lab, such as eyewitness testimonies and alibis.

My point is that, in scientific practices, you don't really need to know how an object came to be (i.e. its history) to know how it works and use it for various purposes (i.e. its operation). A scientist looking to test the reactivity of elements based on its periodic grouping doesn't have to know how the periodic table is developed, and one's beliefs on the origins of the universe has no bearings on how well they can, say, prepare standard solutions to quantify analytes in a sample.

I'm not going to argue about evolution vs. creation because that's not the point of this thread, but you don't have to be anti-science to reject certain scientific claims.

 

[SkyWriting]

Do that and there won't even be time to start
on "health care development"

We'd still have military for our country. Just not involvement in local wars around the globe.

 

[SkyWriting]

What empirical evidence is there for creation?

Things don't appear on their own. (Science) Things don't happen without a reason.(Science)
Unless you can explain why life has occurred? (Science?)

What memoirs are used to support evolution?

From Darwin's travels?