• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.
  3. Please note there is a new rule regarding the posting of videos. It reads, "Post a summary of the videos you post . An exception can be made for music videos.". Unless you are simply sharing music, please post a summary, or the gist, of the video you wish to share.
  4. There have been some changes in the Life Stages section involving the following forums: Roaring 20s, Terrific Thirties, Fabulous Forties, and Golden Eagles. They are changed to Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, and Golden Eagles will have a slight change.
  5. CF Staff, Angels and Ambassadors; ask that you join us in praying for the world in this difficult time, asking our Holy Father to stop the spread of the virus, and for healing of all affected.

The Cyrus Challenge Experiment proposed....

Discussion in 'Christianity and World Religion' started by DennisTate, May 25, 2019.

  1. No

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Yes

    3 vote(s)
    100.0%
  3. I will consider it.... it could be worth a try???

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

    +1,607
    Canada
    Messianic
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    True... but my point is that perhaps the Creator is pleased with where you are at spiritually and doesn't have to take you through your being shown error after error after error after error like I was after I did my variation of the Cyrus prayer?!
     
  2. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

    +3,492
    Australia
    Atheist
    Married
    So you are saying that God is hiding himself from me because he wants me to be the way I am?

    So God wants me to go to Hell, does he?
     
  3. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

    +1,607
    Canada
    Messianic
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    My beliefs on hell are not identical to many Christians .......
    for example I see no theological problem with the following vision of what was happening behind the scenes during the Holocaust:

    My guess is that when Jews pray to "Moshiach" Messiah Yeshua - Jesus know that he is talking to him.

    Isaiah 45

    vs 1 - 5
    is all about somebody being used by G-d.... in a massive way... without being shown clearly exactly who G-d was.

    Mellen Thomas Benedict was an Atheist at the time of his near death experience but he was wise and started asking the being of light more and more questions..... as opposed to attempting to hide..... and all of his questions were answered to his astonishment.
     
  4. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

    +3,492
    Australia
    Atheist
    Married
    Okay, so leaving aside the bit where God never actually explained why he was allowing that to happen, since the Holocaust is not the topic of discussion...

    Are you saying God does not want me to know him? I have spent much of my life seeking the truth. Why should God get to decide that the truth is being kept from me?
     
  5. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

    +1,607
    Canada
    Messianic
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    I am not certain... but there are cases......
    such as that of Mellen Thomas Benedict......
    who was a Skeptic / Atheist right up until the time of his
    near death experience and perhaps partly due to his
    not having pre-conveived opinions of G-d based on the teachings of
    a particular denomination........ he had an off the scale NDE account because he
    kept on asking the Being of Light, (who I believe was Messian Yeshua - Jesus in his glorious form...... but I am biased)............. more and more and more questions.... .and Mellen Thomas even came back
    with a brilliant explanation for what Stephen Hawking Ph. D. covered in chapter thirteen of
    Stephen Hawking's Universe.... that was entitled The Anthropic Principle................

    Mellen Benedict is shown... a Theistic Version of the Cyclic Model of the Universe / Multiverse.........

    which neatly compares to the Atheistic / Agnostic version of the Cyclic Model that Dr. Hawking postulates in his book.......


    Mellen-Thomas Benedict's Near-Death Experience

    By allowing Mellen Benedict to remain a Skeptic until the time of his NDE....
    it is possible that his NDE was more powerful and so clear that in the future it may be regarded as
    a turning point in our time period????????????
     
  6. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

    +3,492
    Australia
    Atheist
    Married
    People can have all sorts of experiences, doesn't mean those experiences were caused by God.
     
  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

    +1,607
    Canada
    Messianic
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    True.......
    the guy who Messiah Yeshua - Jesus met who had the Legion probably had all kinds of unusual experiences but.......
    they indeed were not caused by G-d!

    Mark 5

    And they came to the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gerasenes.

    2 And when he was come out of the boat, straightway there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit, 3 who had his dwelling in the tombs: and no man could any more bind him, no, not with a chain; 4 because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been rent asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: and no man had strength to tame him.

    5 And always, night and day, in the tombs and in the mountains, he was crying out, and cutting himself with stones.

    6 And when he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshipped him; 7 and crying out with a loud voice, he saith, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the Most High God? I adjure thee by God, torment me not.

    8 For he said unto him, Come forth, thou unclean spirit, out of the man.

    9 And he asked him, What is thy name? And he saith unto him, My name is Legion; for we are many.

    10 And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.

    11 Now there was there on the mountain side a great herd of swine feeding.

    12 And they besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.

    13 And he gave them leave. And the unclean spirits came out, and entered into the swine: and the herd rushed down the steep into the sea, [in number] about two thousand; and they were drowned in the sea.

    14 And they that fed them fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they came to see what it was that had come to pass.

    15 And they come to Jesus, and behold him that was possessed with demons sitting, clothed and in his right mind, [even] him that had the legion: and they were afraid.





    Luke 8

    The Mellen Benedict experience though is impressive to me because it caused such a positive shift in his approach to life and to everybody around him. He went from extreme disbelief to extreme faith..... (although not exactly as i look at faith...... but impressive none the less).
     
  8. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

    +3,492
    Australia
    Atheist
    Married
    Way to miss my point...
     
  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

    +1,607
    Canada
    Messianic
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    Yup.........
    but a warning because once this begins and gains momentum.........
    it is moment by moment by moment..........

    because I just got a confirmation for a question that I had on my mind since 1979
    regarding the possible connection between applied Multiverse Theory with
    Ezekiel 37
    and the question of non-linear time??????

    Could the prophet Elijah have altered history if he had NOT........
     
  10. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

    +3,492
    Australia
    Atheist
    Married
    I'm talking about how people can experience something and attribute it to a deity when there was no deity involved.

    You are going on about multiverse theory and non-linear time.

    Are you aware that we generally try to stay on topic as much as possible on this site?
     
  11. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

    +1,607
    Canada
    Messianic
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    Yes.... but the evidence for applied Multiverse Theory......
    which you will find..... for merely one example in chapter five of Saved by The Light by near death experiencer Dannion Brinkley...........

    is also evidence for the existence of an Intelligence / Intelligences or at least intelligence / intelligences capable of resurrecting the dead..........

    at a moment in what would appear as the past.......

    and then spinning off a new time line.........

    Defining G-d is an important part of the goal here.......

    www.CarbonBias.blogspot.ca/

    Even Richard Dawkins Ph. D. would not dogmatically rule out the possible existence of some form of alien intelligence and or Intelligence being involved in human history and / or evolution.........

    Google "Richard Dawkins Ben Stein" for some footage on that......
     
  12. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

    +1,607
    Canada
    Messianic
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    I have no volume here so this might not be the video... but it could be.....

     
  13. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

    +3,492
    Australia
    Atheist
    Married
    I have no idea how you think this is relevant to our discussion.

    Person A can experience something. Person A may claim that the thing they experienced was a result of the intervention of a deity. Their belief does mean it was a deity.

    Your ramblings about multiverses are entirely irrelevant.

    So, let's get back to the actual topic we were discussing. Near Death Experiences can not be verified as being the result of a deity, even if the person really believes it was. There is no way to test for that. However, there is a huge amount of evidence to show the NDEs are NOT the result of a deity.
     
  14. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

    +1,607
    Canada
    Messianic
    Married
    CA-Conservatives

    Or... your source of information might not be quite as good as this:

    Science and the Near-Death Experience


    Science and the Near-Death Experience
     
  15. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

    +3,492
    Australia
    Atheist
    Married
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  16. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

    +1,607
    Canada
    Messianic
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    Yes.... certain drugs ....... and Extreme Gravity Devices.... and several other methods can recreate an NDE under what could be defined as laboratory conditions.

    They still have an out of the body experience.......

    still have a transformation that is not so easily explained away.........

    So there are at least two ways to look at this evidence????????

    The choice is yours..... and mine.... on how we view this part of the formula.

    By the way..... I do thank you for asking all these interesting and excellent questions and based on the number of hits that this discussion is getting some people are finding our discussion interesting....... and I assume.... at least somewhat encouraging or even educational.

    Did you know that in the book Transformed by the Light by Melvin Morse M. D. a study was referred to in which one group of people who had recently attempted suicide were simply given near death experience accounts to read? Zero people from that particular group attempted suicide again during the duration of the study.

    Some psychologies assume from that fact that near death experience accounts have potential therapeutic value in treating suicidal tendencies.



    Psychological Triggers of Near-Death Experiences
    By Kevin R. Williams, B.Sc.
     
  17. Kylie

    Kylie Defeater of Illogic

    +3,492
    Australia
    Atheist
    Married
    And what is not easily explained? We've shown conclusively that NDEs don't require anything at all supernatural.

    Perhaps, perhaps not.

    If they did a study that showed the people from that group were less likely to try again than other people who had once attempted suicide and were NOT shown the NDE accounts, then perhaps you'd have a point.

    But since there was no control group, you can't assume that those people never tried again due to reading those accounts. It could be that the vast majority of people who attempt suicide never try again, and showing them the NDE accounts didn't influence them in any way.

    Oh wow, where to start with that...

    Dr Stan Grof thinks the tunnel is a memory of being born, which is nonsense because babies being born aren't generally capable of forming memories, and even if they were, they wouldn't see it like that.

    It also says that Grof thinks consciousness is "non-localised", a claim for which no supporting evidence is given. And Grof is pretty closely tied to pseudoscience anyway.

    And as for the author of that site, Kevin Williams, he's got absolutely ZERO education in biology or psychology or psychiatry. He's a computer scientist. So his articles about NDEs are pretty much worthless.

    If you want to read an article about NDEs that ISN'T worthless, try this one. It's written by Steven Novella, who's an actual clinical neurologist. So he is very well versed on how the brain works - it's his field of expertise and he's been working in that field for more than twenty years.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2019
  18. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

    +1,607
    Canada
    Messianic
    Married
    CA-Conservatives

    This might impress you somewhat?????

    Extreme worship can have spectacular results....

    In 1975 I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. I had a lot of
    pain for six or seven years and then at a Messianic Gentile Festival of
    Tabernacles my girlfriend at the time talked me into being anointed and prayed
    for by two pastors and several months later I noticed that I was pain free.

    I worked at forestry for about fifteen years after that and even in very cold and
    wet weather.... .the arthritis never came back!

    I know that what in in this video still indeed does happen:

    James 5

    5:14 "Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
    And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him."


     
  19. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

    +1,607
    Canada
    Messianic
    Married
    CA-Conservatives
    Sorry... but the video that I just posted was somehow faked..... I am hoping that it was not a total waste of your time based on this theory:








    Now I am kind of wondering if that video might eventually turn out to be a hint at the meaning of:


    Matthew 24:24 "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

    2Th 2:9 "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,"
     
  20. Robban

    Robban ----------- Supporter

    +1,874
    Sweden
    Judaism
    Divorced
    How on earth can she push and pull the bone in her upper arm, like a teleskope?

    Reminds me of Pharaos daughter,
    when spotting Moses in a little reedboat.

    She reached out to him but her arms were too short so she sent her maidservants to fetch him.


    "No" mean some, a miracle made her arms grow longer so she could reach him herself.

    There may be a lesson in that,
     
Loading...