The current problem with the Christian Church

[Beanieboy]

On another thread, a poster said that Christians not saying that homosexuality is a sin, etc. is one of the problems with the Christian Church today.

Do you agree?

When I hear, "the problem with the Church is that we simply aren't condemning people enough," or "we are simply being to nice/loving/kind", it makes me cringe. In a world has problems with children gunning down other children at school, should one's primary concern be that they aren't being condemning enough?

Did Christ spend most of his time focusing on sins, or how to love one another, how to help another, how to live in humility, and mercy, and compassion, and hope, and truth, just as we ask of God the Father?

In a time that often questions their need of God, should the church's primary goal be to ban the homosexuals from entering? Does one have the authority to say who may and may not come before God, except God himself?

Was Christ rejecting of the prostitutes and taxcollectors, or the Pharisees?

Was his main concern that he simply wasn't "harsh enough" to other people, or that people seem to simply love the minimal that was necessary, ie. forgiving one's neighbor 7 times?
Christ often came to them, saying that doing what was asked wasn't enough, but doing more than one was asked, and doing it graciously and humbly.

Christ speaks a parable about a banquet, and all of the people were busy, so he searched for the lame, the blind, all those who were rejects of society, those who were thought lower than, and he invited them, and they came, even to the point of angering the people who were too busy.
How do you understand this parable?

To Simon, who looked down on Christ who accepted a prostitute to wash his feet, he showed that the prostitute loved him more than the man that taught the very Scriptures about Him.

He told a Parable of the Pharisee who praised God for his holiness, andt thanking him for not making him like the tax collector, who would not even raise his head to God, and asked for mercy, and said it was the latter whom God loved.

This, I believe, is the true problem with the Church. They are more concerned about law than love, and even concerned about loving too much. Is 7 times too many times to forgive my neighbor? Shouldn't I say, "enough is enough?" They are more concerned about others than themselves, more concerned about whom to condemn that how to love. There are others that are changing, and there is hope, but when that change happens, often, I hear, "That's the problem with the Church today..."

In your opinion, what is the true problem of the Modern Church?

 

[BobW188]

The true problem of today's Christian church is that its impact on most members' lives
fades to nothing within an hour after the service is over. We certainly don't keep the sabbath. Are those Sunday crowds at the stores all atheists? Agnostics? Hindi? Buddhist? C'mon!
We are constantly dragging earthly politics up to the altar, to the extent that at least until recently "evangelical" equalled "Republican," "mainstream" equalled "Democrat."
The fact is, but for that one hour a week, most of us most of the time are proud, envious, angry, greedy, lustful and gluttonous; and if we are habitually honest we actually think we deserve credit for it. (You don't deserve credit for doing what God wants you to do.) We consume as mindlessly as any secular grouping and have similar rates of substance abuse/dependence, divorce, and domestic violence.
The churches are simply not impacting their own congregations

 

[SiderealExalt]

We consume as mindlessly as any secular grouping and have similar rates of substance abuse/dependence, divorce, and domestic violence.

Sometimes possibly more. But I don't like to stereotype. On the subject of which, "secular" does not mean mindless, immoral, (insert negative adjective here).

Since I can only speak for myself with certainty. I can do and have done(as a member of the secular) things in my life that amount to more than mindless consumption up to and including military service. Perhaps not as much as I wish. But I don't make assertions to perfect. I only make note of my imperfections and desires for improvement.

As a non-Christian I can't really say what is going on with the Church as a whole. I know that I think(emphasis on think) that while it(religion) wont die out completely. Religion will continue to slowly decay in a societal sense. I do think however that religion will as it always has continue to change as the world we live in changes due to social changes and technological changes. What form it all take even a century from now though, I don't know.

 

[cantata]

From the outside, I would have to say that what makes the church least attractive to me is the elitism and holier-than-thou attitude of many (certainly not all) Christians. Unfortunately a lot of the most outspoken Christians are also some of the angriest. It sometimes takes people as charismatic and down-to-earth as Gene Robinson and Desmond Tutu (and, of course, some of my own friends) to remind me that there are lovely Christians out there as well. But the public face of Christianity is, more than ever, the shouty evangelical with a list a mile long of people to condemn, and a list consisting solely of people in their church to actually be nice to.

 

[acropolis]

I think the biggest problem is the vast difference between what Jesus taught and what the church has become. That's vague, I know, but true. Like the OP said, Jesus defied social and religious norms in order to love people, unlike the current church and most of its adherents.

 

[quatona]

I must say that I have great sympathy for and often support the churches here (and with that I mean the traditional main churches, and not fundy sects).
Granted, they had and have to redefine themselves and find a new place in society, but I think they are doing remarkably well in that they are continuously shifting from providing us with ex cathedra truths to focussing on social and cultural work.

 

[StarCannon]

Current problem with the c-chruch...
Besides not offering anything of substance? Besides that it's membership tends to be be mediocre? Besides the sheep mentality and passiveness?

I'd have to say the biggest problem with the church is the fact that it exists. I don't see any real benefit to having one in the neighborhood. :-/ I've got one right down the street and yet it doesn't seem to do anything except meet on sundays.

 

[keith99]

The biggest problem the Christian Church has today is that it's members are all people. Some of them even as mean and nasty as some of the posts on this thread.

The strength. Some are as thoughtful as Beanieboy in giving a well thought out post dealing with a nasty point, but avoiding being spiteful. Others are as careful as Cantata to not use a broad brush and look for the good in other individuals and groups.

Oh and it seems the Church has the same problem that many other institutions have. There are many good people in the pews. Fewer, but still enough in the pulpits of local churches. But by the level of getting T.V. time the good seem rare and the spiteful abound.

 

[SamanthaB]

I really dont think that we can blame this on the church as a whole. The church is there to minister to us, yes, but not spoon feed us. Many Christians I know do not read the Bible on their own, and do not try to figure certain things out on their own. They believe things are sin simply because someone told them, not because they have found out on their own (IE reading the BIble, talking to God). Whether or not someone thinks homosexuality is a sin it is noones place to judge or tell them what they should do. That is between the person and God. If you can still be a Christian and a liar/adulterer/ addict/ murderer (yes, murderer, Paul killed many Christians in his day) then you can for sure be a homosexual and a Christian. God knew each and everyone of us before we were even born and Jesus shed his blood for us to give us eternal life if we just accept it. If we were all perfect then we wouldnt need to be forgiven.

 

[keith99]

In your opinion, what is the true problem of the Modern Church?

Short and ugly answer.

That the Church can not love sinners. So they end up erroring either to the right or the left. They either have to deny the sin or deny any love.

 

[HannahBanana]

I think the problem with the modern-day church is that its members (especially those who are conservative) want to turn every one of their morals into law, thus forcing non-Christians to abide by a holy book that they don't even believe in. I cannot honestly understand how they can think that such a thing is Christ-like at all.

 

[jcook922]

I think the problem with the modern-day church is that its members (especially those who are conservative) want to turn every one of their morals into law, thus forcing non-Christians to abide by a holy book that they don't even believe in. I cannot honestly understand how they can think that such a thing is Christ-like at all.

I agree. They think this is a Christian world when it isn't, this is everyones world. I'd fight to keep it that way.

 

[SamanthaB]

Maybe you guys should take your focus off of the Church and Christians and put your focus on God. God hates sin but not sinners. If that were not the case he wouldnt have come down here just to be tortured and die a slow painful death for us. He would have just left us to ourselves. The church is made up of humans, arrogant, flawed, undependable humans, just like every other aspect of life, the church is no different. We will never get it completely right, but neither will ya'll. You arent perfect either, so cut us some slack. NO one is without sin or mistake or whatever you want to call it, but God is.

 

[cantata]

The biggest problem the Christian Church has today is that it's members are all people. Some of them even as mean and nasty as some of the posts on this thread.

The strength. Some are as thoughtful as Beanieboy in giving a well thought out post dealing with a nasty point, but avoiding being spiteful. Others are as careful as Cantata to not use a broad brush and look for the good in other individuals and groups.

Oh and it seems the Church has the same problem that many other institutions have. There are many good people in the pews. Fewer, but still enough in the pulpits of local churches. But by the level of getting T.V. time the good seem rare and the spiteful abound.

D'aw, thanks.

I don't like the tone of some of the posts in this thread, I have to say. I don't see the point of being rude. I'm not a Christian, and there are a lot of things that people do in the name of Christianity that I don't like, but I couldn't go so far as to say such nasty things about the whole of the Christian tradition, which, for better or worse, has shaped our culture and history indelibly.

 

[HannahBanana]

Maybe you guys should take your focus off of the Church and Christians and put your focus on God. God hates sin but not sinners. If that were not the case he wouldnt have come down here just to be tortured and die a slow painful death for us. He would have just left us to ourselves. The church is made up of humans, arrogant, flawed, undependable humans, just like every other aspect of life, the church is no different. We will never get it completely right, but neither will ya'll. You arent perfect either, so cut us some slack. NO one is without sin or mistake or whatever you want to call it, but God is.

Why should I, an agnostic, have to "put my focus on God"? Let me have my own beliefs, for goodness sakes.

By the way, this is a perfect example of how so many Christians these days tend to think that everyone should follow the Bible, even though the First Amendment gives us the freedom not to do so. Thanks for illustrating my point for me. I really appreciate that.

 

[jcook922]

Maybe you guys should take your focus off of the Church and Christians and put your focus on God. God hates sin but not sinners. If that were not the case he wouldnt have come down here just to be tortured and die a slow painful death for us. He would have just left us to ourselves. The church is made up of humans, arrogant, flawed, undependable humans, just like every other aspect of life, the church is no different. We will never get it completely right, but neither will ya'll. You arent perfect either, so cut us some slack. NO one is without sin or mistake or whatever you want to call it, but God is.

I don't fault god, I fault the church. I place blame on it for all the intolerance it's created over it's history. I get furious when I see groups like the Westboro Baptist Church picketing soldiers funerals and spreading ignorant hatred. I know there are good Christians, my fault with them is for not defending the reputation of the Church by doing something about people like Fred Phelps.

 

[John59912]

I don’t think we should condemn anyone, because there is no condemnation in Christ, but we should also not condone sin. The problem with the church is that we have moved away from preaching anything controversial or anything that may not be politically correct or anything that may even suggest that people need to take responsibility for their own actions… as in when we sin we are the one to blame… the devil didn’t make us do it… God did not tempt us into it…

I agree that love needs to be the cornerstone of all we do, but Jesus called a spade a spade… he drove people from the temple, he called the Pharisees white wash tombs and son’s of hell and when someone was in sin, he told them to go and sin no more.

If we turn a blind eye to sin so that love/grace may abound then we violate scripture and we become ear ticklers… we become luke warm which the book of Revelations tells us makes God want to puke.

The reason the church is failing in America today is because we have compromised the message and watered down the gospel. You can tell someone they are in sin and need a savior and still do it in love… as a matter of fact if you love someone you won’t hold back… you will tell them they MUST have Jesus as their savior or they will go to hell. If you love them then you would not want them to leave this world without Christ and sometimes that means saying things that are not easy for people to hear.

 

[HannahBanana]

I don’t think we should condemn anyone, because there is no condemnation in Christ, but we should also not condone sin. The problem with the church is that we have moved away from preaching anything controversial or anything that may not be politically correct or anything that may even suggest that people need to take responsibility for their own actions… as in when we sin we are the one to blame… the devil didn’t make us do it… God did not tempt us into it…

I agree that love needs to be the cornerstone of all we do, but Jesus called a spade a spade… he drove people from the temple, he called the Pharisees white wash tombs and son’s of hell and when someone was in sin, he told them to go and sin no more.

If we turn a blind eye to sin so that love/grace may abound then we violate scripture and we become ear ticklers… we become luke warm which the book of Revelations tells us makes God want to puke.

The reason the church is failing in America today is because we have compromised the message and watered down the gospel. You can tell someone they are in sin and need a savior and still do it in love… as a matter of fact if you love someone you won’t hold back… you will tell them they MUST have Jesus as their savior or they will go to hell. If you love them then you would not want them to leave this world without Christ and sometimes that means saying things that are not easy for people to hear.

So you're saying that hatred and intolerance are good things? Since when have hatred and intolerance solved any sort of problem?

 

[SamanthaB]

Why should I, an agnostic, have to "put my focus on God"? Let me have my own beliefs, for goodness sakes.

By the way, this is a perfect example of how so many Christians these days tend to think that everyone should follow the Bible, even though the First Amendment gives us the freedom not to do so. Thanks for illustrating my point for me. I really appreciate that.

Good night, what a spin! I did not say that you need to "focus on God" like I was commanding you to worship Him! I was saying that the Christian church is made up of humans so of course we are going to be wrong....about....ALOT! Just like every other aspect of life. Our God is perfect so you cant fault Him is what I am saying.

Get a grip already, I cant "illustrate your point" if that was not even close to the point I was making. I never ever said that you should believe in Him, I was saying that the God that we worship does not hate sinners, and its an unfortunate part of life that we tend to get things wrong. Sheesh.

 

[SamanthaB]

I don't fault god, I fault the church. I place blame on it for all the intolerance it's created over it's history. I get furious when I see groups like the Westboro Baptist Church picketing soldiers funerals and spreading ignorant hatred. I know there are good Christians, my fault with them is for not defending the reputation of the Church by doing something about people like Fred Phelps.

I can not even begin to compare myself with the Westboro Baptist Church. Wouldnt even want to. Most Christians I know feel the same. It is unfortunate that they even associate themselves with the human race.