The CSDA!!

[TrustAndObey]

Now, today, there are folks that make themselves such awful pests and unchristian pains in the necks that others toss them out. They would be tossed out of a sewing circle or biker's rally!!

But this is self-fulfilling martyrdom, not God directed Light-bearing. This is self-justification, another log on the fire that lights up "ME".

I just read some great verses yesterday that address this very subject (and how to handle it).

1 Timothy 1:4 - Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

1 Timothy 6:4 - He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain.

2 Timothy 2:23 - But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. (Avoid foolish questions because they will cause foolish debates!!)

2 Timothy 2:16 - But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

Titus 3:9 - But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

The Bible makes it very clear, at least to me, that we are wasting our time trying to convert "religious" people that think they have the corner on the market of truth. We're called to witness to people that don't know Christ, not to try to convert those that claim they do.

Now true, we are told repeatedly to rebuke those that say they are sharing biblical truth when they are not. It is obvious however that we're to rebuke them and leave it up to God. We can't continue butting heads with people or absolutely nothing is accomplished. Plant seeds....and walk away.

And Vaudois, I know exactly what you mean about self-fulfilling martyrdom. There really are people out there that cause an uproar for attention just so they can yell "See?! I'm being persecuted for Christ's sake!" Those people are usually very easy to spot...and to avoid.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Vaudois]

Bull's-eye, T&O...Those are the Scriptures that we need to follow, not our own ideas of "fairness", "rights" and "equal time".
Authentic Christians will heed Paul's words to Timothy, ranking them much higher than debate rules, or any norms society has taught us...

 

[Vaudois]

Here's a testimony for an Adventist with some major problems, which in the end, would lead this man to a strange destiny:

"You might thus have reflected a clear, sharp light to the world; but instead of this you have mingled with the world and imbibed its spirit. My brother, you must be born again. A mere form of Christianity is not of the least value. It is destitute of saving power, having in it no reformative energy. A religion which is confined to Sabbath worship emits no rays of light to others. I entreat you to examine your own heart closely. You have a combative, contentious spirit, and you are cultivating instead of repressing that spirit. You should make a decided change, and cultivate meekness, faith,humility, and love. Your soul is in peril; you will surely be subject to the strong delusions of Satan unless you stop where you are and press against the current of worldliness and ambition. Your relations with the world must be changed, and a decided separation must take place. The positions which you occupy, which are continually opening to you doors of temptation, must be given up. Avoid politics; shun contention. Keep clear of every office which would encourage those traits in your character that need to be battled down and overcome. {5T 339.2}

 

[TrustAndObey]

Very good post Vaudois. And it's true, if we'd all worry about and search our own hearts, we'd be so much closer to God. We have to work on our relationships with Christ individually. Nobody is going to be there to "get our backs" on Judgment Day.

 

[Vaudois]

Very good post Vaudois. And it's true, if we'd all worry about and search our own hearts, we'd be so much closer to God. We have to work on our relationships with Christ individually. Nobody is going to be there to "get our backs" on Judgment Day.

What's "get our backs" mean? That's new to me.

 

[TrustAndObey]

"Get your back" is just an expression. It's like......"if you get in a fight, I'm there for you to help you...I got your back."

Or "if you need money, I got your back, come to me for help." Etc, etc

 

[Vaudois]

AH! I get it!

Well I have learned a different aspect of the Judgment that addressing such things, which I may open up elsewhere.

 

[honorthesabbath]

Actually, Happywiththe Lord, it's a bit more involved than that.

Let's look at what separation actually is.

The Apostles separated from the Jewish System. The Waldensians separted from Rome. Luther separted from Rome. Wesley separated from the Church of England. EGW's family separated from the Methodists.

So on the surface separation can be a good move.
Leaving Egypt was a good move for the Hebrews. Leaving Babylon was as well. God's listening people followed Him out. Prince Moses, the military man, had to tend sheep for a long time to grasp that!

It is an eternal principle that it does not matter so much where you are, but what you are. That you are separated is a "where" ="not in that fold anymore".

The fundamental question is "Why? Why are you not there? Who caused the removal, yourself or God? Who dictates your action; yourself or the Holy Spirit? What are you; obedient servant to God, or self-appointed Elijah, servant of your emotion or ideas?"

The Apostles, Waldensians, Wesley, EGW...they all had messages for the Church that they were in. They were directly moved by God, not "pushing for their rights", angry at their peers, prodden by injustices (real or imaginary) done to them. They had Light from God directly; they were ordered by Him to stay put and reveal to their brothers that Light. They did.

Then they were rejected by those that loved tradition and power instead. They were forced out, never walked out.

Now, today, there are folks that make themselves such awful pests and unchristian pains in the necks that others toss them out. They would be tossed out of a sewing circle or biker's rally!!

But this is self-fulfilling martyrdom, not God directed Light-bearing. This is self-justification, another log on the fire that lights up "ME".

There is no history of God's people successfully using Satan's or self-centered methods to build God's Kingdom.
God's ways are not a religious man's ways; they are a Spiritual man's ways because he loves God's ways.

See the differences?

"I LOVE THIS MAN"!!!!!!! i love him i love him!!!lol--such spiritual insight!!! What a blessing to this forum!!

 

[StormyOne]

Bull's-eye, T&O...Those are the Scriptures that we need to follow, not our own ideas of "fairness", "rights" and "equal time".
Authentic Christians will heed Paul's words to Timothy, ranking them much higher than debate rules, or any norms society has taught us...

Christ's servants are grieved as they see true and false believers mingled in the church. They long to do something to cleanse the church. Like the servants of the householder, they are ready to uproot the tares. But Christ says to them, "Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest." {COL 71.2}


Christ has plainly taught that those who persist in open sin must be separated from the church, but He has not committed to us the work of judging character and motive. He knows our nature too well to entrust this work to us. Should we try to uproot from the church those whom we suppose to be spurious Christians, we should be sure to make mistakes. Often we regard as hopeless subjects the very ones whom Christ is drawing to Himself. Were we to deal with these souls according to our imperfect judgment, it would perhaps extinguish their last hope. Many who think themselves Christians will at last be found wanting. Many will be in heaven who their neighbors supposed would never enter there. Man judges from appearance, but God judges the heart. The tares and the wheat are to grow together until the harvest; and the harvest is the end of probationary time. {COL 71.3}

 

[StormyOne]

Notwithstanding Christ's warning, men have sought to uproot the tares. To punish those who were supposed to be evildoers, the church has had recourse to the civil power. Those who differed from the established doctrines have been imprisoned, put to torture and to death, at the instigation of men who claimed to be acting under the sanction of Christ. But it is the spirit of Satan, not the Spirit of Christ, that inspires such acts. This is Satan's own method of bringing the world under his dominion. God has been misrepresented through the church by this way of dealing with those supposed to be heretics. {COL 74.1}

 

[StormyOne]

The tares closely resembled the wheat while the blades were green; but when the field was white for the harvest, the worthless weeds bore no likeness to the wheat that bowed under the weight of its full, ripe heads. Sinners who make a pretension of piety mingle for a time with the true followers of Christ, and the semblance of Christianity is calculated to deceive many; but in the harvest of the world there will be no likeness between good and evil. Then those who have joined the church, but who have not joined Christ, will be manifest. {COL 74.3}


The tares are permitted to grow among the wheat, to have all the advantage of sun and shower; but in the time of harvest ye shall "return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth Him not." Mal. 3:18. Christ Himself will decide who are worthy to dwell with the family of heaven. He will judge every man according to his words and his works. Profession is as nothing in the scale. It is character that decides destiny.

 

[StormyOne]

"But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses." Matt. 6:15. Nothing can justify an unforgiving spirit. He who is unmerciful toward others shows that he himself is not a partaker of God's pardoning grace. In God's forgiveness the heart of the erring one is drawn close to the great heart of Infinite Love. The tide of divine compassion flows into the sinner's soul, and from him to the souls of others. The tenderness and mercy that Christ has revealed in His own precious life will be seen in those who become sharers of His grace. But "if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His." Rom. 8:9. He is alienated from God, fitted only for eternal separation from Him. {COL 251.1}

 

[StormyOne]

We are not forgiven because we forgive, but as we forgive. The ground of all forgiveness is found in the unmerited love of God, but by our attitude toward others we show whether we have made that love our own. Wherefore Christ says, "With what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged; and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again." Matt. 7:2. {COL 251.4}

 

[Vaudois]

One of the cardinal factors of a born again christian that I often have driven home to my heart these past few years is the principle that one's words and deeds portray the condition of one's heart.

Or as the Word puts it "A good tree bringth forth good fruit...Ye shall know them by their fruits."

A thorn-bush cannot yield apples. Tying apples to thorn-bushs will not make the bush actually grow apples or fool the harvesters.

In another way, one could say "Whatever your words say is what you are. Speak cruelty, you are cruel. Speak peacefully, you are at peace with God and man. Speak confusedly, you are confused. Out of the heart so a man speaketh."

Therefore if a group that is organized, such as this thread's theme is all about, or not organized, speaks ill of other christians, then there is illness within the soul somewhere. This has little to do with rights, opinion, interpretations or disagreements. It has to do with cutting others to have your own way.

"But there were some who sought [Christ's] society, feeling at peace in his presence, because he never contended for his rights. Tho he loved his brethren, yet they hated him, and manifested the most decided unbelief and contempt." {ST, August 6, 1896 par. 8}

"Jesus did not contend for His rights. Often His work was made unnecessarily severe because He was willing and uncomplaining. Yet He did not fail nor become discouraged. He lived above these difficulties, as if in the light of God's countenance. He did not retaliate when roughly used, but bore insult patiently." {DA 89.4}

 

[Seraph1m]

..."Jesus did not contend for His rights. Often His work was made unnecessarily severe because He was willing and uncomplaining. Yet He did not fail nor become discouraged. He lived above these difficulties, as if in the light of God's countenance. He did not retaliate when roughly used, but bore insult patiently." {DA 89.4}

Would you mind explaining who is "contending" for rights? Please be specific because I do not see the point of your commentary?

Peace

 

[honorthesabbath]

Notwithstanding Christ's warning, men have sought to uproot the tares. To punish those who were supposed to be evildoers, the church has had recourse to the civil power. Those who differed from the established doctrines have been imprisoned, put to torture and to death, at the instigation of men who claimed to be acting under the sanction of Christ. But it is the spirit of Satan, not the Spirit of Christ, that inspires such acts. This is Satan's own method of bringing the world under his dominion. God has been misrepresented through the church by this way of dealing with those supposed to be heretics. {COL 74.1}

Dearest Stormy--I hope that you are not insinuating that those "established doctrines" are referring to the TRUTH'S that we hold so dear are you? In other words, state of the dead--the Sabbath--IJ--etc? Sometimes EGW's writings are taken grossly out of context.

I'm wondering if you could be more specific please.

 

[Vaudois]

Hey, Seraph1m!
If you read this whole thread, I have been attempting to focus on why groups like Creation SDAs contend for the right to take the Church's name as their own.

Splinter groups who fight for rights in the christian world are not following Christ's example. Groups are made up of individuals, and their personal spiritual hurdles reflect in fighting for rights.

 

[Seraph1m]

Hey, Seraph1m!
If you read this whole thread, I have been attempting to focus on why groups like Creation SDAs contend for the right to take the Church's name as their own.

Splinter groups who fight for rights in the christian world are not following Christ's example. Groups are made up of individuals, and their personal spiritual hurdles reflect in fighting for rights.

Peachy, just curious.

Is there some reason we are going on about what CSDA's believe if there are none here to defend why or what it is they believe?

ANYBODY here a "Creation SDA"?

 

[SassySDA]

Peachy, just curious.

Is there some reason we are going on about what CSDA's believe if there are none here to defend why or what it is they believe?

ANYBODY here a "Creation SDA"?

I haven't really seen that much written regarding what they do or do not believe. Most of the discussion has been about whether they, or any other "branch off" of the Seventh-day Adventist church, has the right to take the SDA name with them.

 

[TrustAndObey]

I haven't really seen that much written regarding what they do or do not believe. Most of the discussion has been about whether they, or any other "branch off" of the Seventh-day Adventist church, has the right to take the SDA name with them.

That's right, and don't let anyone distract you from the original topic of this thread.

As Adventists we have every right to discuss splinter groups, and what appears to be small groups that try to bear false witness by claiming they hold Adventist doctrine when they do not. These small groups are confusing people about what the true Adventist message is. Therefore we have the right, if not the duty, to let others know that.

SOP tells us that the church will start appearing to fail and that the conflict will come from within, correct? I'm sure none of us here are surprised by these splinter groups at all, but we do have the right and need to discuss them and their actions to see just how bad the problem is.

We talk about the beast power all the time without that power being here to "defend" itself. No group is or should be immune from discussion.

All denominations have branch offs and so be it, but when these groups come up with some "out there" doctrines, they should expect and get some kickback for it. Otherwise, it really would appear that they are more than willing to trash our beliefs, but become very defensive when their own are out on the table.

Correct me if I'm wrong everybody, but in this non-debate area a question can be asked, but once it's answered the asker needs to accept it and not debate the answer, correct? (Not that anyone is debating, I just want to make sure I'm clear on the rules here).