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Have fun.Psa 11:4 The LORD [is] in his holy temple, the LORD'S throne [is] in heaven: his eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.
ATTENTION BIBLE2: the third heaven is Paradise, as Paul so states in 2 Corinthians. Paradise is not the created Temple which is set in the created sun and in which there are "no delights/pleasures of life therein", as Enoch so states in Enoch 14, when He was taken to that temple before that throne in heaven. Enoch later saw the City of God in heaven, which is the Paradise Paul was taken up to.
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Guess I have to pop in once in awhile to show Bible2's posts are made without understanding of the matter as God has stated it in His word, for nothing in all Bible2's posts on the subject leads one to believe he has any understanding of the literal words God uses when He speaks of His own created temple set in the created sun, which God calls His own "dwelling place", as my previous posts do state.
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What does this have to do with Eschatology, though? Nothing but that in the last days all those signs in the sun seen below will be in part those things John saw in Revelation concerning the sun.
It was just a fun discovery of mine that I wanted to share with those who would be interested in doing their own studies to see if these things be so. Bible2 has no interest in seeing if these things be so, as he uses his own reasonings to deny the possibility of God stating what He means and meaning what He says, on the subject.
But-
God heeded Joshua, and the sun and moon stood still, in heaven. Bible2 cannot explain that without denying the thruth of the Word of God.
The stars in their courses fought against Sisera, but Bible2, according to his above beliefs, could never believe that fact about the stars in their courses fighting against Sisera.
Jos 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. [Is] not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Jos 10:14And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.
Hab 3:11 The sun [and] moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, [and] at the shining of thy glittering spear.
Jdg 5:19The kings came [and] fought, then fought the kings of Canaan in Taanach by the waters of Megiddo; they took no gain of money.
Jdg 5:20They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.
From God's created temple set in the created sun, His created angels who stand before the created throne come out, at the time of the bowl and trumpet judgments, during the tribulation:
Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Rev 16:18And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, [and] so great.
Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Rev 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Rev 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
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Since there are angels who can appear as pillars of fire, are those "angels of Light", then? and are those the angels standing before the LORD in His temple set in the sun, then?
We always have fun hereHave fun.
He "looks down" from that sanctuary in the heavens which He "pitched", and sometimes "comes down" from it, pre-incarnation, and has "come down" from there, in the incarnation, when He was *"stripped bare naked" of His glory which He had with the Father before the world was". He is now glorified with that Glory in the body of Second Man flesh, seated in the heavens; which seat Adam could not ascend to, as "Adam, son of God", after the fall There was a a throne of glory there reserved for Adam, human son of God, which throne Adam never ascended to and which the New Man has.We always have fun here
Matthew 5:18 "For amen I am saying to ye, till ever may-be-passing-away the Heaven and the Land, iota one or one horn not no may-be-passing-away from the Law, until ever ALL shall-be-becoming/genhtai <1096> (5638)" [Revelation 16/17/21:1,6]
Reve 16:17 and the seventh [*messenger] pours out the bowl of him upon the air and came out a Voice, great, from the Sanctuary of-the heaven from the throne saying "it has become"/gegonen <1096> (5754).
Psa 19:1 PSALM 19
To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David.
THE heavens declare the glory of God;
And the firmament makes known the work of His hands.
Psa 19:2 Day unto day utters speech,
And night unto night reveals knowledge.
Psa 19:3 There is no speech nor language
Where their voice is not heard.
Psa 19:4 Their linehas gone out through all the earth,
And their words to the end of the world.
He set His tabernacle in the sun,
Psa 19:5 Which is like a bridegroom going forth from his chamber,
And rejoices like a strong man to run its race.
Psa 19:6 Its rising is from one end of heaven,
And its circuit to the other end;
And there is nothing hidden from its heat.
The Douay-Rheims is frought with problems. To begin with, it is a translation of the Vulgate which is a translation of the Hebrew. To be blunt, its often not very good, and this verse seems to be a case in point. Jerome is a bit over-rated, I'm afrraid.Back for just a moment here, folks. I'm having a lot of fun while my internet is disconnected (I'm at the library to post today, and I only have a few minutes), and want to share a tidbit for those of you who are interested in these things. This may need to go in a different forum.....
In 1 Enoch 14, when Enoch has the vision of entering into the temple of God in heaven, He goes in to a most fantastic place (can't quote it at the moment, no time), in which there were no delights of life, but which was surrounded by tongues of fire, and built of Crystal, with the path of the stars above. Please read the passage to see what Enoch said. Also, in another part of Enoch He speaks of that crystal house of God (which has an inner house where the created throne in the created temple in the created heaven sits). Then, after reading that passage, check out the RC version of the OT, Psalm 18:5 (which is Psalm 19, 4, in the KJV).
It says; "He set His tabernacle (temple) in the sun".
That place Enoch went into had no delights of life, and it is not the place where the City of God is, where angels eat Manna and the ancients pray for the sons of men in intercession, and where Enoch longed to go and where He was translated to the garment of Glory and allowed to go.
Now, where is that city of God?????
Translator bias translates the passage to state what it does not state in the original.The Douay-Rheims is frought with problems. To begin with, it is a translation of the Vulgate which is a translation of the Hebrew. To be blunt, its often not very good, and this verse seems to be a case in point. Jerome is a bit over-rated, I'm afrraid.
Here are 5 fairly literal English translations of the Hebrew, all of them say, "tent" or "tabernacle for the sun". Figurative language for the "dwelling place" of the sun, not God.
Yes, there is a created heaven where God sits. It is not in the sun nor Psalm 19:4.
Of course we do not agree with his opinions, but his quote of the Greek Septuagint proves that the Septuagint He read and used stated that in the sun has He set His tabernacle"And in the sun has He set His tabernacle. There is a transposition here. For it is of the second coming that the discourse is. So, then, we must read what is transposed in its due sequence: And he, as a bridegroom issuing from his chamber, will rejoice as a giant to run his way. From heaven's end is his going forth; and there is no one who shall hide himself from his heat; and then, He has set His tabernacle in the sun.
Enoch chapter 14 And I went in till I drew nigh to a wall which is built of crystals and surrounded by tongues of fire: and it began to affright 10 me. And I went into the tongues of fire and drew nigh to a large house which was built of crystals: and the walls of the house were like a tesselated floor (made) of crystals, and its groundwork was 11 of crystal. Its ceiling was like the path of the stars and the lightnings, and between them were 12 fiery cherubim, and their heaven was (clear as) water. A flaming fire surrounded the walls, and its 13 portals blazed with fire. And I entered into that house, and it was hot as fire and cold as ice: there 14 were no delights of life therein: fear covered me, and trembling got hold upon me. And as I quaked 15 and trembled, I fell upon my face. And I beheld a vision, And lo! there was a second house, greater 16 than the former, and the entire portal stood open before me, and it was built of flames of fire. And in every respect it so excelled in splendour and magnificence and extent that I cannot describe to 17 you its splendour and its extent. And its floor was of fire, and above it were lightnings and the path 18 of the stars, and its ceiling also was flaming fire. And I looked and saw therein a lofty throne: its appearance was as crystal, and the wheels thereof as the shining sun, and there was the vision of 19 cherubim. And from underneath the throne came streams of flaming fire so that I could not look 20 thereon. And the Great Glory sat thereon,
Chapter 71]
1 And it came to pass after this that my spirit was translated
And it ascended into the heavens:
And I saw the holy sons of God.
They were stepping on flames of fire:
Their garments were white [and their raiment],
And their faces shone like snow.
2 And I saw two streams of fire,
And the light of that fire shone like hyacinth,
And I fell on my face before the Lord of Spirits.
3 And the angel Michael [one of the archangels] seized me by my right hand,
And lifted me up and led me forth into all the secrets,
And he showed me all the secrets of righteousness.
4 And he showed me all the secrets of the ends of the heaven,
And all the chambers of all the stars, and all the luminaries,
Whence they proceed before the face of the holy ones.
5 And he translated my spirit into the heaven of heavens,
And I saw there as it were a structure built of crystals,
And between those crystals tongues of living fire.
6 And my spirit saw the girdle which girt that house of fire,
And on its four sides were streams full of living fire,
And they girt that house.
7 And round about were Seraphin, Cherubic, and Ophannin:
And these are they who sleep not
And guard the throne of His glory.
8 And I saw angels who could not be counted,
A thousand thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand,
Encircling that house.
And Michael, and Raphael, and Gabriel, and Phanuel,
And the holy angels who are above the heavens,
Go in and out of that house.
Look at Numbers 25:4. I deleted all the words added for understanding, and look at what is left.Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Rev 14:17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
Rev 15:5 And after that I looked, and, behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened:
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
HA! -I enjoyed your responseOkay, so, I didn't realize you were loaded for bear. ;-)
I just thought you were only going by the verse from the Vulgate.
I'll have to look into this a bit further.
Well, you DID catch me by surprise!HA! -I enjoyed your response
That's pretty odd, don't you think?the CCEL.org website said:[sup]1[/sup] The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be [sup]2[/sup] living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. And he took up his parable and said -Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is [sup]3[/sup] for to come.
We are studying Enoch chapter by chapter, verse by verse and correlating Enoch to the OT and NT [how I wish we had a link to the earliest copies of Enoch in its original words in its various translations, and a concordance!], and I never thought that when we got to the astronomical chapters we would get so much out of them as we are. We've just done chapters 71 and 72, and see that indeed the sun and moon and stars are signs set in the heavens which teach us about the seasons of creation -from beginning to end- and about the parables of the righteous and the wicked and their ends...Well, you DID catch me by surprise!
The very idea of the created dwelling place of God being in the sun has an appeal to it. There's a symmetry to it and it seems to fit a lot of things. I'm going to have to ponder and pray about it, and thank you for the info.
BobB
I forgot to say how much I appreciated this post.We are studying Enoch chapter by chapter, verse by verse and correlating Enoch to the OT and NT [how I wish we had a link to the earliest copies of Enoch in its original words in its various translations, and a concordance!], and I never thought that when we got to the astronomical chapters we would get so much out of them as we are. We've just done chapters 71 and 72, and see that indeed the sun and moon and stars are signs set in the heavens which teach us about the seasons of creation -from beginning to end- and about the parables of the righteous and the wicked and their ends...
The light created on day one is a shadow/sign of the Everlasting YHWH; the sun on day four is a shadow, sign, of the Sun of Righteousness, the Bridegroom [who is come in flesh] and who is the Glory of the unseen YHWH and who has the Glory of the Unseen YHWH, without measure: but the moon is a type and shadow of the bride, the Redeemed, who get the glory in definite measure in this present creation but receive the greater glory when we are regenerated in bodies.
And the dark side of the moon is a shadow of the sinners and transgressors who never see the face of the Great Glory and so can never reflect a definite measure of that Glory.
I'll check out your site.
I didn't see your reply. I'm glad you did.I forgot to say how much I appreciated this post.
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