The constitution is about to be shredded some more.

SkyWriting

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tz620q

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The Chief Justice is only required for the trial of a President.
Point #2 is - Fail


Those were your two points and they both fail investigation.
I recognize the method of creative fact-speaking though.
It's often used along with no citations.

"In the case of presidential impeachment trials, the chief justice of the United States presides." U.S. Senate: Impeachment.
I am responding to you; but really this question could go to all posting here. If you were going to be tried for something you allegedly did, would you want the U.S. Senate to be the judge and jury on a limited time span trial? Perhaps if we ponder this question, some of the hardened bias on both sides will evaporate. One of the reasons for the Chief Justice presiding at these impeachment trials is to give the semblance of impartiality to the proceedings.
 
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seeking.IAM

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If you were going to be tried for something you allegedly did, would you want the U.S. Senate to be the judge and jury on a limited time span trial?...

Goodness no. I'm not even sure I want the U.S. Senate involved in passing legislation. But I suppose that part is unavoidable. :sunglasses:
 
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SkyWriting

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I am responding to you; but really this question could go to all posting here. If you were going to be tried for something you allegedly did, would you want the U.S. Senate to be the judge and jury on a limited time span trial? Perhaps if we ponder this question, some of the hardened bias on both sides will evaporate. One of the reasons for the Chief Justice presiding at these impeachment trials is to give the semblance of impartiality to the proceedings.
The punishments are limited for that very reason.
 
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tz620q

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The punishments are limited for that very reason.
And you have rightly stated that the punishments are 1. Removal from office (which seems to have expired before the Senate could vote) and 2. Censure (which could carry the penalty of banning him from running for federal office again). We will see how this plays out; but I think the long term effects of this will be nil. The trial will find him not guilty again and the proceedings will be swept into the new cycle dust bin. The real trials will be for those people who actually rioted and stormed the capitol, inflicting harm on innocent police trying to stop them. I am hopeful that this will coalesce into trying the guilty without devolving into a witch hunt by the Dems for ways to discredit people who did not take part in this.
 
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tz620q

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Goodness no. I'm not even sure I want the U.S. Senate involved in passing legislation. But I suppose that part is unavoidable. :sunglasses:
Have you noticed how much time the legislature is taking recently doing judicial actions and not legislative actions? Our country is strong because our founding fathers created a three legged stool where each leg knew its job and supported the whole. Now the executive branch through executive orders is creating law. The judicial branch is ruling in ways that create law instead of interpreting it. The legislative branch is running hearing after hearing and trial after trial. Someone is sawing on the legs of our stool. That should be the question that all Americans should start asking themselves.
 
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Jaxxi

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I believe what they did was posted earlier in the thread and I am sorry, I agree with what happened to them.

As someone who is held to a higher standard, I know that my words can condemn me and so I am careful with what I say. I can criticize the president or a member of congress or whatever branch of the government. That will never get me into trouble. However, if I threaten a member of the government or I am part of a group that was inciting violence towards anything, I fully expect to face reprimand.

If they were removed for just being Republican then I would agree with you, but that isn't why they were removed. If they were Democrats I would expect them to face the same treatment.
Did you hear them threaten the government?I mean did they record them as proof that they were threatening people? If not it is hearsay. So you are saying 12 National Guardsmen threatened members of government and they have them all on tape or recorded? If that is what you are saying then their dismissal is understandable.
 
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SkyWriting

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And you have rightly stated that the punishments are 1. Removal from office (which seems to have expired before the Senate could vote) and 2. Censure (which could carry the penalty of banning him from running for federal office again). We will see how this plays out; but I think the long term effects of this will be nil. The trial will find him not guilty again and the proceedings will be swept into the new cycle dust bin. The real trials will be for those people who actually rioted and stormed the capitol, inflicting harm on innocent police trying to stop them. I am hopeful that this will coalesce into trying the guilty without devolving into a witch hunt by the Dems for ways to discredit people who did not take part in this.
Let's suppose 20 people died in the capital attack including both party leaders.
 
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tz620q

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Let's suppose 20 people died in the capital attack including both party leaders.
OK, are you proposing a hypothetical scenario and wondering what would have happened?
 
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SkyWriting

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OK, are you proposing a hypothetical scenario and wondering what would have happened?
Five people did die, I am just wondering how many more it would take? 2 children trampled maybe? A couple of politicians?
 
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tz620q

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Five people did die, I am just wondering how many more it would take? 2 children trampled maybe? A couple of politicians?
Let's look at the 5 who died during this riot.

Officer Brian Sicknick died due to injuries sustained during the riot, ostensibly from being hit in the head with a fire extinguisher.

Ashlii Babbitt died due to gun shot wounds from an unidentified (really??) officer while trying to climb through a broken window in the Capitol Building. Babbitt was unarmed.

Kevin Greeson died due to a heart attack while standing outside the west side of the Capitol Building.

Benjamin Philips died due to a stroke suffered while standing outside the Capitol Building.

Rosanne Boyland was trampled under police and protesters during the pushing outside the Capitol Building according to friends who were with her. Capitol Police gave her CPR in the Capitol Rotunda after the crowd had started to dissipate and had her transported to the hospital where she died.

I write this to dispel rhetoric with facts. There is enough rhetoric on both sides. The federal agencies will find and hopefully the courts will prosecute those who acted against the law that day; but it appears that of the 5 dead, only one (Ashlii Babbitt) was violating the law, while Officer Sicknick was supporting it.
 
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SkyWriting

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Let's look at the 5 who died during this riot.

Officer Brian Sicknick died due to injuries sustained during the riot, ostensibly from being hit in the head with a fire extinguisher.Ashlii Babbitt died due to gun shot wounds from an unidentified (really??) officer while trying to climb through a broken window in the Capitol Building. Babbitt was unarmed.Kevin Greeson died due to a heart attack while standing outside the west side of the Capitol Building.Benjamin Philips died due to a stroke suffered while standing outside the Capitol Building.Rosanne Boyland was trampled under police and protesters during the pushing outside the Capitol Building according to friends who were with her. Capitol Police gave her CPR in the Capitol Rotunda after the crowd had started to dissipate and had her transported to the hospital where she died.I write this to dispel rhetoric with facts. There is enough rhetoric on both sides. The federal agencies will find and hopefully the courts will prosecute those who acted against the law that day; but it appears that of the 5 dead, only one (Ashlii Babbitt) was violating the law, while Officer Sicknick was supporting it.

The permit for the rally clearly and specifically did not allow for a march to the capitol. So all 5 deaths were directly due to the insurrection. There were no "legal deaths" to be ignored or forgiven.

AT the rally the call to "Fight" was given 23 times. A call to "protest" - zero.
That's the reason for the trial proceedings right now.

But back to my question slathered in an oozing bowl of "rhetoric":
SkyWriting said:
Five people did die, I am just wondering how many more it would take? 2 children trampled maybe? A couple of politicians?
 
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BNR32FAN

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Well I use those monikers because they tend to be how our govt. is collapsing to. Conservative vs. Liberal is a far more accurate description. And the liberal socialist side is winning! They have the most campuses, professors, media sites, lawyers, and now more and more big business, as well as the deepest pockets.

We all knew this was coming, this is just part of fulfilling the prophecies.
 
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Isilwen

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We all knew this was coming, this is just part of fulfilling the prophecies.

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tz620q

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The permit for the rally clearly and specifically did not allow for a march to the capitol. So all 5 deaths were directly due to the insurrection. There were no "legal deaths" to be ignored or forgiven.

AT the rally the call to "Fight" was given 23 times. A call to "protest" - zero.
That's the reason for the trial proceedings right now.

But back to my question slathered in an oozing bowl of "rhetoric":
SkyWriting said:
Five people did die, I am just wondering how many more it would take? 2 children trampled maybe? A couple of politicians?
I see that this is not a discussion that will benefit anyone. Go with God.
 
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SkyWriting

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I see that this is not a discussion that will benefit anyone. Go with God.
SkyWriting said:
Five people did die, I am just wondering how many more it would take? 2 children trampled maybe? A couple of politicians? At what point would we hold Trump liable?

You can hide from the question. I don't mind.
 
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