The Consequences of Creationism

EvoDan · Jan 3, 2006

PrincetonGuy said:
...And do you believe that knowing God in a personal, meaningful and dynamic way is simply to have a warm and fuzzy feeling inside when praying?

I believe "knowing God" is a delusion, using anyone's definition.

LittleNipper · Jan 3, 2006

PrincetonGuy said:
It is my personal belief that the teaching of creation science is one of the most dangerous threats facing the evangelical Christian Church today. I believe that it is an especially dangerous threat because it makes evangelical Christians appear to be intellectually challenged baboons suffering from the late stages of dementia. I also believe that organizations like the ICR (Institute for Creation Research) and AiG (Answers in Genesis) make evangelical Christians appear to be not only grossly ignorant of the natural sciences, but liars and deceivers who are more than willing to commit any sin necessary in order to make the theory of evolution appear to be indefensible.

What is your take on this matter?

Actually, teaching students that they are related to baboons by birth supresses intelligent considerations and intellectual investigation. The sin is calling GOD a liar and that is a sin a church may have difficulity surviving.

AirPo · Jan 3, 2006

john crawford said:
This ought to be a short-lived thread.

So much for the predictive powers of YEC.

AirPo · Jan 3, 2006

LittleNipper said:
Actually, teaching students that they are related to baboons by birth supresses intelligent considerations and intellectual investigation.

How so?

The sin is calling GOD a liar and that is a sin a church may have difficulity surviving.

Then stop doing that.

PrincetonGuy · Jan 3, 2006

EvoDan said:
I believe "knowing God" is a delusion, using anyone's definition.

Is this merely a hunch on your part, or do you have some data that supports your belief?

PrincetonGuy · Jan 3, 2006

LittleNipper said:
Actually, teaching students that they are related to baboons by birth supresses intelligent considerations and intellectual investigation. The sin is calling GOD a liar and that is a sin a church may have difficulity surviving.

The theory of evolution does NOT include the theory or supposition that God is a liar. God never said that the theory of evolution is a false theory, nor did God ever say that He created the earth in six days. False and unbiblical notions of the inspiration of our Holy Scriptures have lead very many souls down the path of destruction and ultimate damnation.

The clearest teaching in the Bible regarding its inspiration in found in the first chapter of Lukes Gospel, and should not be forgotten when reading Genesis or any other book of the Bible.

Luke 1. Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us,
2. just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and servants of the word,
3. it seemed fitting for me as well, having investigated everything carefully from the beginning, to write it out for you in consecutive order, most excellent Theophilus;
4. so that you may know the exact truth about the things you have been taught. (NASB, 1995)

EvoDan · Jan 3, 2006

PrincetonGuy said:
Is this merely a hunch on your part, or do you have some data that supports your belief?

Well, it's a belief. That's why I used the word "believe."

But its also a belief that I think is supported by evidence.

A man stands before you and says that he hears a voice telling him to kill. Is he delusional or a fundamentalist? And how can you tell?

monkey88 · Jan 3, 2006

LittleNipper said:
Actually, teaching students that they are related to baboons by birth supresses intelligent considerations and intellectual investigation. The sin is calling GOD a liar and that is a sin a church may have difficulity surviving.

Evolution deos not oppose religion, it's seperate and a person can both believe in god and the neo-darwinist theory of evolution.

PrincetonGuy · Jan 3, 2006

EvoDan said:
Well, it's a belief. That's why I used the word "believe."

But its also a belief that I think is supported by evidence.

A man stands before you and says that he hears a voice telling him to kill. Is he delusional or a fundamentalist? And how can you tell?

I most certainly would not jump to a conclusion without know the facts.

EvoDan · Jan 3, 2006

PrincetonGuy said:
I most certainly would not jump to a conclusion without know the facts.

Exactly. Produce some facts for your biblegod, and then I'll tell you that you are not delusional.

PrincetonGuy · Jan 3, 2006

EvoDan said:
Exactly. Produce some facts for your biblegod, and then I'll tell you that you are not delusional.

Please allow me to quote a tidbit from the writings of the Apostle Paul:

Rom. 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
17. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
19. because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
21. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22. Professing to be wise, they became fools,
23. and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.
24. Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them.
25. For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26. For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
27. and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
28. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
29. being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips,
30. slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,
31. without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful;
32. and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

EvoDan · Jan 3, 2006

PrincetonGuy said:
Please allow me to quote a tidbit from the writings of the Apostle Paul.

All testimony: highly edited, translated, transcribed, revised, redacted, and refuted testimony.

Not a FACT in site...

EvoDan · Jan 3, 2006

PrincetonGuy said:
Please allow me to quote a tidbit from the writings of the Apostle Paul:...

BTW, do you know the difference between a teacher and a preacher?

A preacher exorcises the thinkers, and a teacher exercises your thinker.

john crawford · Jan 3, 2006

Tomk80 said:
Browse through the rest of the website. The evidence is right there. Your unwillingness to study it or inability to understand it does not make it false.

The phylogenetic trees and so-called fossil "evidence" presented by the Smithsonian of African apes progressively evolving into African people is rather more evidence of neo-Darwinist racial prejudice and bigotry in depicting the origin of African people from apes than evidence of it actually ever happening.

http://culturesofscientificrevolutions.wikispaces.com/Human%20Origins%20-%20Paleoanthropology

http://www.soulcare.org/Creation/Sciam-Racism.html

http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/127

PrincetonGuy · Jan 3, 2006

EvoDan said:
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All testimony: highly edited, translated, transcribed, revised, redacted, and refuted testimony.

Not a FACT in site...

How many groundless suppositions are you going to post in this thread? The integrity of the first chapter Romans is VERY well established and shows NO signs of redaction and it MOST CERTAINLY has NOT been refuted.

Yes, it has been translated into hundreds of languages. Here is the Greek text:

Rom 1:16Οὐ γὰρἐπαισχύνομαιτὸ εὐαγγέλιοντοῦ Χριστοῦ·δύναμιςγὰρΘεοῦ ἐστίνεἰςσωτηρίανπαντὶ τῷ πιστεύοντι, ᾿Ιουδαίῳ τεπρῶτονκαὶ ῞Ελληνι.

Rom 1:17δικαιοσύνηγὰρΘεοῦ ἐναὐτῷ ἀποκαλύπτεταιἐκπίστεωςεἰςπίστιν, καθὼςγέγραπται·ὁ δὲ δίκαιοςἐκπίστεωςζήσεται.

Rom 1:18᾿Αποκαλύπτεταιγὰρὀργὴ Θεοῦ ἀπ᾿οὐρανοῦ ἐπὶ πᾶσανἀσέβειανκαὶ ἀδικίανἀνθρώπωντῶντὴνἀλήθειανἐνἀδικίᾳ κατεχόντων,

Rom 1:19διότιτὸ γνωστὸντοῦ Θεοῦ φανερόνἐστινἐναὐτοῖς·ὁ γὰρΘεὸςαὐτοῖςἐφανέρωσεν.

Rom 1:20τὰ γὰρἀόρατααὐτοῦ ἀπὸ κτίσεωςκόσμουτοῖςποιήμασιννοούμενακαθορᾶται, ἥτεἀΐδιοςαὐτοῦ δύναμιςκαὶ θειότης, εἰςτὸ εἶναιαὐτοὺςἀναπολογήτους,

PrincetonGuy · Jan 3, 2006

Rom 1:21διότιγνόντεςτὸνΘεὸνοὐχὡςΘεὸνἐδόξασανἢεὐχαρίστησαν, ἀλλ᾿ἐματαιώθησανἐντοῖςδιαλογισμοῖςαὐτῶν, καὶ ἐσκοτίσθηἡ ἀσύνετοςαὐτῶνκαρδία·

Rom 1:22φάσκοντεςεἶναισοφοὶ ἐμωράνθησαν,

Rom 1:23καὶ ἤλλαξαντὴνδόξαντοῦ ἀφθάρτουΘεοῦ ἐνὁμοιώματιεἰκόνοςφθαρτοῦ ἀνθρώπουκαὶ πετεινῶνκαὶ τετραπόδωνκαὶ ἑρπετῶν.

Rom 1:24Διὸ καὶ παρέδωκεναὐτοὺςὁ Θεὸςἐνταῖςἐπιθυμίαιςτῶνκαρδιῶναὐτῶνεἰςἀκαθαρσίαντοῦ ἀτιμάζεσθαιτὰ σώματααὐτῶνἐναὐτοῖς,

Rom 1:25οἵτινεςμετήλλαξαντὴνἀλήθειαντοῦ Θεοῦ ἐντῷ ψεύδει, καὶ ἐσεβάσθησανκαὶ ἐλάτρευσαντῇ κτίσειπαρὰ τὸνκτίσαντα, ὅςἐστινεὐλογητὸςεἰςτοὺςαἰῶνας·

PrincetonGuy · Jan 3, 2006

Rom 1:26Διὰ τοῦτοπαρέδωκεναὐτοὺςὁ Θεὸςεἰςπάθηἀτιμίας. αἵτεγὰρθήλειαιαὐτῶνμετήλλαξαντὴνφυσικὴνχρῆσινεἰςτὴνπαρὰ φύσιν,

Rom 1:27ὁμοίωςτεκαὶ οἱ ἄρσενεςἀφέντεςτὴνφυσικὴνχρῆσιντῆςθηλείαςἐξεκαύθησανἐντῇ ὀρέξειαὐτῶνεἰςἀλλήλους, ἄρσενεςἐνἄρσεσιτὴνἀσχημοσύνηνκατεργαζόμενοικαὶ τὴνἀντιμισθίανἣνἔδειτῆςπλάνηςαὐτῶνἐνἑαυτοῖςἀπολαμβάνοντες.

Rom 1:28Καὶ καθὼςοὐκἐδοκίμασαντὸνΘεὸνἔχεινἐνἐπιγνώσει, παρέδωκεναὐτοὺςὁ Θεὸςεἰςἀδόκιμοννοῦν, ποιεῖντὰ μὴ καθήκοντα,

Rom 1:29πεπληρωμένουςπάσῃ ἀδικίᾳ, πορνείᾳ πονηρίᾳ πλεονεξίᾳ κακίᾳ, μεστοὺςφθόνουφόνουἔριδοςδόλουκακοηθείας, ψιθυριστάς,

Rom 1:30καταλάλους, θεοστυγεῖς, ὑβριστάς, ὑπερηφάνους, ἀλαζόνας, ἐφευρετὰςκακῶν, γονεῦσινἀπειθεῖς,

PrincetonGuy · Jan 3, 2006

Rom 1:31ἀσυνέτους, ἀσυνθέτους, ἀστόργους, ἀσπόνδους, ἀνελεήμονας·

Rom 1:32οἵτινεςτὸ δικαίωματοῦ Θεοῦ ἐπιγνόντες, ὅτιοἱ τὰ τοιαῦταπράσσοντεςἄξιοιθανάτουεἰσίν, οὐ μόνοναὐτὰ ποιοῦσιν, ἀλλὰ καὶ συνευδοκοῦσιτοῖςπράσσουσι.

john crawford · Jan 3, 2006

TheBear said:
Pay particular attention to the lower right of the chart.

Yes, it's assumptions and premises there are also racially prejudiced and biased.

TheBear · Jan 3, 2006

john crawford said:
Yes, it's assumptions and premises there are also racially prejudiced and biased.

But you refered to the chart as an authority, to support your claims. It's pretty disengenuous of you to pick parts that may support your claims, and disparage the other parts which don't.

Lying for Jesus again?

The Consequences of Creationism

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