The Conscience

[CalledOutOne]

"There is some light remaining in the conscience, and though the heart be extremely evil, willing to deceive, [and] will be deceived, yet the conscience has some kind of tenderness and faithfulness left in it, unless by long custom in sin it be made senseless and stupid. I readily yield that conscience is corrupted also in a great measure by the Fall…. But yet still ’tis a great mercy that conscience does so much as it does; the light might have been totally extinguished, and the Lord might have suffered us to have run full speed in our wicked ways to destruction without any monitor within to check or control us."
Nathaniel Vincent​

Thoughts on the conscience?

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

"There is some light remaining in the conscience, and though the heart be extremely evil, willing to deceive, [and] will be deceived, yet the conscience has some kind of tenderness and faithfulness left in it, unless by long custom in sin it be made senseless and stupid. I readily yield that conscience is corrupted also in a great measure by the Fall…. But yet still ’tis a great mercy that conscience does so much as it does; the light might have been totally extinguished, and the Lord might have suffered us to have run full speed in our wicked ways to destruction without any monitor within to check or control us."
Nathaniel Vincent​

Thoughts on the conscience?

Sounds like the distinction between Total Depravity and Utter Depravity.

 

[Tigger45]

I would agree with this from a soul perspective but not a spirit one. As far as our spirit is before regeneration we were dead. Now for as far as the soul goes we were created in God's image and I see glimmers of love, compassion and charity in unbelievers. Now mind you I am a Christian and believe Jesus is the only way to the Father and unbelievers have to receive Him as Lord and Savoiur to be saved.

 

[bsd058]

Here is a site in which some people regard the conscience as described by the Bible. Not saying I agree that all of these verses talk about the conscience, but some do.

What Does the Bible Say About Conscience?

Noting Rom 2:15, I believe that a part of God's common grace is that the conscience of unbelievers shows the law of God at work. It's not completely gone, but only because of His grace.

 

[Ceridwen]

The conscience of the natural man is an idol factory. It tells him to reject Christ and his sacrifice, and instead to hope that divine justice is always rehabilitative rather than retaliatory.

The only way to experience the miracle of regeneration is to have your conscience transformed from a natural conscience to a Christian conscience. That means what you used to call "good," you must now call "bad." And vice versa.

Luke 16:15 New International Version (NIV)
What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight.

Proverbs 14:12, 16:25 (New International Version)
There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.

In order for your heart to be regenerated, you must love what you used to hate, and you must follow a way that you used to believe was wrong. The conscience of a natural man is a compass that points in the opposite direction. To follow it will take you directly to hell.

 

[twin1954]

The conscience of the natural man is an idol factory. It tells him to reject Christ and his sacrifice, and instead to hope that divine justice is always rehabilitative rather than retaliatory.

The only way to experience the miracle of regeneration is to have your conscience transformed from a natural conscience to a Christian conscience. That means what you used to call "good," you must now call "bad." And vice versa.

Luke 16:15 New International Version (NIV)
What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight.

Proverbs 14:12, 16:25 (New International Version)
There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.

In order for your heart to be regenerated, you must love what you used to hate, and you must follow a way that you used to believe was wrong. The conscience of a natural man is a compass that points in the opposite direction. To follow it will take you directly to hell.

 

[twin1954]

I ask what does the conscience do? It regulates from fear not from morality. The conscience of the natural man takes the knowledge of God that is inate in all, His power and judgment, and stirs up fear and dread in the soul. Fear will always drive you away from God not to Him.

 

[CalledOutOne]

I ask what does the conscience do? It regulates from fear not from morality. The conscience of the natural man takes the knowledge of God that is inate in all, His power and judgment, and stirs up fear and dread in the soul. Fear will always drive you away from God not to Him.

I agree. I know that as Christians we fear God and I believe that means an actual fear with trembling, but it's not a phobia like some seem to have. When I tremble before God it's worship. I don't want to stop. (Looks like I got off topic).

Back to the topic of the conscience: I can see how the conscience is from God and that it illuminates some moral truth. Obviously the non-believer knows he is doing wrong as he is doing it. But I'm not sure if it is the conscience that says, "run from God", but the corrupt heart's response to the conscience. All the conscience is, is our sense of right and wrong. It is something that God gave every man; however it would seem that if the heart (which is the will) is evil, then I the sinner will turn and run from God.
All conscience means is knowledge of right and wrong. It is not a force that drives a man to or from God. It is the heart that generates fear and the heart that runs from God.

As far as the conscience being corrupted, I can think of a few verses that talk about the wicked man continuing in sin and searing his conscience so the next time he does that sin he won't recognize that it is wrong. When I was a kid I remember lying to my parents for the first time like the depraved heathen little monkey that I was. At first I knew it was wrong and my heart generated a worldly type of guilt. However, I made it a habit to lie to my parents and sooner or later it stopped bothering me. My heart was so wicked that it started disseminating my conscience (is that the right way to use that word?).

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

The conscience of the natural man is an idol factory. It tells him to reject Christ and his sacrifice, and instead to hope that divine justice is always rehabilitative rather than retaliatory.

The only way to experience the miracle of regeneration is to have your conscience transformed from a natural conscience to a Christian conscience. That means what you used to call "good," you must now call "bad." And vice versa.

Luke 16:15 New International Version (NIV)
What people value highly is detestable in God’s sight.

Proverbs 14:12, 16:25 (New International Version)
There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.

In order for your heart to be regenerated, you must love what you used to hate, and you must follow a way that you used to believe was wrong. The conscience of a natural man is a compass that points in the opposite direction. To follow it will take you directly to hell.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I agree. I know that as Christians we fear God and I believe that means an actual fear with trembling, but it's not a phobia like some seem to have. When I tremble before God it's worship. I don't want to stop. (Looks like I got off topic).

Back to the topic of the conscience: I can see how the conscience is from God and that it illuminates some moral truth. Obviously the non-believer knows he is doing wrong as he is doing it. But I'm not sure if it is the conscience that says, "run from God", but the corrupt heart's response to the conscience. All the conscience is, is our sense of right and wrong. It is something that God gave every man; however it would seem that if the heart (which is the will) is evil, then I the sinner will turn and run from God.
All conscience means is knowledge of right and wrong. It is not a force that drives a man to or from God. It is the heart that generates fear and the heart that runs from God.

As far as the conscience being corrupted, I can think of a few verses that talk about the wicked man continuing in sin and searing his conscience so the next time he does that sin he won't recognize that it is wrong. When I was a kid I remember lying to my parents for the first time like the depraved heathen little monkey that I was. At first I knew it was wrong and my heart generated a worldly type of guilt. However, I made it a habit to lie to my parents and sooner or later it stopped bothering me. My heart was so wicked that it started disseminating my conscience (is that the right way to use that word?).

Couple thoughts, God writes His law on hearts (Ro 2:15), but man in his natural corrupt state is at enmity with God (Ro 8:7), hostile to God, dead in sin (Eph 2:1) in all of his being. Here are a few passages specifically referring to the conscience:

In 1 Tim 4:2 we read of some "having their own conscience seared".

In Titus 1:15 we read: "To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled."

According to Heb 10:22 "let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water."

If the conscience were neutral in regard to right and wrong, good and evil, we wouldn't read words like "evil" describing conscience.

 

[Ceridwen]

the conscience is from God and that it illuminates some moral truth. Obviously the non-believer knows he is doing wrong as he is doing it.

It is not true that the nonbeliever's conscience correctly calls "wrong," what we call "wrong." His conscience tells him that evil is goodness, and that goodness is evil. For example, the pagan who worships the pagan gods (think Socrates, for example) believes that it is right to do so. When presented with the divine Trinity, he would believe that it is wrong to worship the divine Trinity.

The conscience of the nonbeliever cannot see any value or logic in living the Christian life or converting to Christianity. His moral conscience tells him to remain what he is. That is why it actually takes a miracle for a nonbeliever to convert to Christianity. Because, from within his desire, conscience, and reason, there is nothing about salvation that is appealing. Only by a miracle can he perceive the divine qualities as "good" rather than "evil."

God calls upon a nonbeliever to do what is wrong in his eyes and to ignore the dictates of his heart. The alternative is condemned by the Bible: "In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes." Judges 17:5 If anyone should think to himself, "I will do well enough if I follow the dictates of my heart," Yahweh will not pardon him. His wrath shall burn against him. And all the curses written in the book will come upon him. Deuteronomy 29:18-20 (New Jerusalem Bible)

 

[bsd058]

Why do children have a concept that stealing is evil? When something is taken from them, they throw tantrums since they feel a wrong has been done to them. Even in their own selfishness, they are able to perceive what is right and wrong; the proof of this is in the fact that they act like they are wronged. (Basic argument taken from Augustine's Confessions)

On the other hand, lawlessness, as pointed out by Ceridwen, is definitely prevalent in the heart of men. They are definitely bound to do evil. (Rom 3) While I do think they know what is good in their hearts, I believe they suppress this truth in their unrighteousness. (Rom 1) They have to. They are rebels by nature.

 

[CalledOutOne]

Couple thoughts, God writes His law on hearts (Ro 2:15), but man in his natural corrupt state is at enmity with God (Ro 8:7), hostile to God, dead in sin (Eph 2:1) in all of his being. Here are a few passages specifically referring to the conscience:

In 1 Tim 4:2 we read of some "having their own conscience seared".

In Titus 1:15 we read: "To the pure all things are pure, but to those who are defiled and unbelieving nothing is pure; but even their mind and conscience are defiled."

According to Heb 10:22 "let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water."

If the conscience were neutral in regard to right and wrong, good and evil, we wouldn't read words like "evil" describing conscience.

Good point. I hadn't remembered Hebrews 10:22.
The thing is, I am more than willing to accept that the conscience can be evil, but in what way does it manifest its depravity? Obviously it is the heart that generates false religions.
Also, how the the conscience a driving force like the heart is?
I guess you could say that the conscience affects the heart as the flesh affects the heart meaning that it has an influence over the will.

Common misconception to clear up: Many Christians say that they still sin in their flesh, but that is the wrong understanding. Christians are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit and cannot shift back and forth to being in and out of the flesh any more than they can shift in and out of salvation. When the Christian sins, the flesh rises up and acts contrary to his will (ie. his heart which is regenerate) and has influence over his will.

In the same way, I can see how the conscience can have the same affect over the will of the non-believer; however even in acting in alignment with their conscience, they are sinning since everything done outside of faith is sin (Rom. 14:23).

Although, this is just a deduction off of very few Scriptures.
Thoughts?