lets deal with your claim that we cant know if the blood is male or female. If you had bothered to do any further research you would have found that there were more advanced tests done to see whether this was a male or female. .
Furthermore, we can't even tell if the blood spots are Male or from the Near East. To Quote Raymond Rogers
;
It is almost certain that the blood spots are blood, but no definitive statements can be
made about its nature or provenience, i.e., whether it is male and from the Near East.
SHROUD OF TURIN
Other more technical tests could have and most probably have come later that did show good evidence
that the blood was Male blood and AB.
SHROUD OF TURIN
1995 - Dr. Victor Tryon, assistant professor of microbiology and director of the university of Texas
Center for Advanced DNA Technologies isolated Signals from three different human male genes using polymerase
chain reaction techniques. The samples were taken from the "blood Globs" found on the shroud.
Originally Posted by Christian-Catholic
the shroud has 3d spatial information encoded into the image and it disappates at 10 centimeters which is an indication that the image wasnt formed by body to cloth contact while the blood stains and the faint flower images were formed by contact with the shroud.
I've done a number of searches and have found no evidence of your claim. Considering I have gone through the trouble thus far to provide evidence to counter your claims I demand the source of this information
.
How hard could it be to use Google ? Ok time for another spoonfeeding session. Open up wide wittle one
The shroud image was run through the vp8 image analyzer and any photograph run through it would be
all messed up because they contain no 3d information on them
Inexplicable 3D Optical Illusion Phenomenon
In 1976, research physicists John Jackson and Eric Jumper along with Kenneth Stevenson, Giles Charter, and Peter Shumacher, examined a photograph of the Shroud with the VP-8 Image Analyzer at the Sandia Scientific Laboratories in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
It had long been suspected that the image densities of images on the Shroud represented spatial information; that is, the lighter and darker tones of the images represented distance rather than traditional representations of light as highlights, lowlights and cast shadows. See What do we mean when we say the images are 3D encoded?
The VP-8 Image Analyzer confirmed those suspicions. The photograph of the Shroud, unlike any regular photograph, drawing or painting, was dimensionally encoded.
A normal black and white photograph (or monochrome photograph of any single color) is an image of varying amounts of reflect
ed light. Light colored surfaces approach white and dark surfaces tend towards black.
The Shroud image, however, is a height-field. At the same time, it acts like a photographic negative.
Closeness appears darker (a dark yellow color) and distance is lighter.
The tip of the nose is dark because it was presumably close to or touching the linen at the time the image was formed.
The recesses of the eyes, being farther away, are lighter.
Further:
What do we mean when we say the images are 3D encoded?
Similarly the images on the Shroud of Turin can be plotted into a three-dimensional terrain representation.
But, and this is important to understand, paintings and photographs of the human form including the face,
cannot be so plotted. There is probably no more important test of any attempt to recreate the images on the Shroud,
either to test a hypothesis or to attempt to show how a forger might have created the image, then to see if the image
is a height-field. If it won't plot correctly, it is not at all like the image on the Shroud.
Originally Posted by Christian-Catholic
the shroud has 3d spatial information encoded into the image and it disappates at 10 centimeters which is an indication that tOriginally Posted by Christian-Catholic
Microscopic dirt found on the knees are indictative of the man falling (exactly as how the gospels describe Jesus falling).
I cannot find any evidence to this claim either.
AS I have shown before, just because you couldnt find it doesnt mean it isnt there.Your speaking of ineptitude? so far
You have shown that you cant research diddly esxcept for old evidence and pseudoclaims that only make claims that try to throw some doubt
into the shroud.So much for the vaunted intellect and research methods of the atheist
More on the Dirt of the Shroud of Turin « Shroud of Turin Blog
The top left is the heel of the right foot, which registered the strongest dirt signal (Wilson & Schwortz, 2000, pp.92-93)]
As historian Ian Wilson explains, the "1978 STURP [Shroud of Turin Research Project] examination discovered,
"the Shroud is significantly dirtier at the soles of the feet than anywhere else on the cloth" and
"analysis of particles of limestone
adhering to the Shroud" shows that it "that spectrally has
a `signature strikingly similar to limestone samples from ancient Jerusalem tombs" which is more
"evidence that rather than being a `cunning painting
the Shroud really was used somewhere in the environs
of Jerusalem to wrap the dirty and bloody corpse of a man who had just been crucified" (my emphasis):
Perhaps the most tantalizing glimpse of all, however, came from reflectance spectroscopy work carried out by the
husband-and-wife team Roger and Marty Gilbert in the course of the 1978 STURP examination. As they ran their equipment
up and down the man of the Shrouds image the spectra they obtained proved relatively regular except when they reached
the sole of the foot imprint on the back-of-the-body half of the cloth. Suddenly the spectra changed dramatically.
Something in the foot area, and particularly around the heel, was giving a markedly stronger signal than elsewhere,
but what? When optical physicist Sam Pellicori was summoned to view the area under the portable microscope the answer
proved as chilling as it was obvious. Dead-pan, Pellicori pronounced, `Its dirt! As might have been expected in an
individual who had had even his sandals taken away from him, the man of the Shroud had dirty feet.
During the March 2000 Turin sacristy viewing I and others, even with the unaided eye,
could see the Shroud is significantly dirtier at the soles of the feet than anywhere else on the cloth, this dirt
very visible underlying the serum-haloed bloodstains that otherwise coat the same soles. So had the Gilberts stumbled
upon the very dirt from the streets of Jerusalem that had blackened the feet of Jesus of Nazareth two thousand years ago?
In fact analysis of particles of limestone also found adhering to the Shroud have been identified by optical
crystallographer Dr Joseph Kohlbeck as travertine aragonite that spectrally has a `signature strikingly similar to
limestone samples from ancient Jerusalem tombs, taken by archaeologist Dr Eugenia Nitowski.
[Kohlbeck, J.A. & Nitowski, E.L., "New Evidence May Explain Image on Shroud of Turin," Biblical Archaeology Review,
July-August 1986, pp.18-29] From such a variety of different directions, there is therefore the most striking evidence
that rather than being a `cunning painting, some time in its history the Shroud really was used somewhere in the
environs of Jerusalem to wrap the dirty and bloody corpse of a man who had just been crucified."
(Wilson, I. & Schwortz, B., "The Turin Shroud: The Illustrated Evidence," Michael OMara Books: London, 2000, p.92)
In particular, not only did "a sample of calcium taken from the Shroud in the very same foot area" turn
"out to be of the rarer aragonite variety, exactly as in the case of the samples taken from the Jerusalem tombs"
but both "also exhibited small amounts of strontium and iron, again suggesting a close match" indeed
"an unusually close match, the only disparity being a slight organic variation readily explicable as due to minute
pieces of flax that could not be separated from the Shrouds calcium" (my emphasis):
Scientists found other interesting features connected with the Shroud. Joseph Kohlbeck, an optical crystallographer
found particles of aragonite with small amounts of strontium and iron on the Shrouds fibers on the image of the foot.
With the help of archaeologist Eugenia Nitowski, he obtained samples of limestone from inside ancient tombs in and near
Jerusalem and subjected them also to microscopic analysis. He found the same substance. The aragonite on the Shroud
and in the tombs was an uncommon variety, deposited from springs, typically found in limestone caves in Palestine,
but not in Europe. The samples from the Shroud and the tombs provided `an usually close match,
suggesting to him and to Nitowski that the Shroud had once been in one of the `rolling-stone tombs
that were common in Palestine around the time of Christ and for several centuries before.
Kohlbeck observed that those who believe that the Shroud is a forgery need to explain how the very rare aragonite
found its way to the surface of the Shroud. [Kohlbeck & Nitowski, Ibid., pp.23-24]
(Ruffin, C.B., "The Shroud of Turin: The Most Up-To-Date Analysis of All the Facts Regarding the Churchs Controversial
Relic," Our Sunday Visitor: Huntington IN, 1999, p.103).
The bottom line is that, like the pollen, "no forger" back in the 14th century "would ever think of including such
details which would" not have been known "until this present age with its microscopic possibilities" as limestone on the
Shroud images feet being "a rare form of calcite also found near the Damascus Gate (i.e. the one closest to Golgotha)
in Jerusalem" (my emphasis):
Originally Posted by Christian-Catholic
The shroud has xray information in the hand,wrist, femur and parts of the head region to where you can actually see the teeth.
I also suspect you're lying about this. Considering that, as far as my knowledge of Science goes you cannot get an x-ray of a person from an impression. However, if you believe you're telling the truth please, PROVIDE THE SPECIFIC EVIDENCE. It's getting real trying coming up with nothing on these half-arsed claims of yours.
Even so, I can produce evidence to the contrary but what for? Even if the impression is authentically human, what do you have? An image of a random dude on a cloth. That's it.
First of all your doing really well picking on a general post, but I suspect your gonna have a harder time distorting the relevance of my posts now
second of all your lying big time about it being an image of a random dude on a cloth(as I have shown in my previous post). Please provide me one image like it
That matches the gospel account of Jesus to the letter and even goes further by correcting the middle age paintings
of the crucifixion by showing the nail wounds going through the wrists instead of the palms. Interesting isnt it how nails
through the palm couldnt hold the weight of a body up and the nails through the wrist could. Not that I would expect a biased
atheist thats married to a worldview that has no ultime meaning,purpose or love to do research that would fit the definition
of a free thinker lol.
Now the xray information
StayCatholic.com - Shroud of Turin
One such researcher is Dr. August Accetta, an obstetrician-gynecologist from southern California,
husband and father of three daughters and founder of the Shroud Center of Southern California (Shroudcentersocal.com).
First opened in 1996, the center is dedicated to discovering the truths within the Shroud. Accetta focuses on uncovering the mysteries that lie within the Shroud itself.
Accetta is particularly interested in the images photographic aspects, including its three-dimensional qualities and
its human anatomical features.
He has published four peer-reviewed papers on the Shroud in the area of nuclear imaging.
The doctors work with nuclear imaging demonstrates that in terms of the Shrouds inverse color intensity
(often described as being like a photographic negative, but actually a mere reversal of light and dark),
the image encodes only about the top 1.5 inches of the face and body in three dimensions.
Of equal interest to Accetta is the X-ray-like imaging upon the Shroud; the image reveals the roots of several upper teeth,
the metacarpal bones in the left wrist and the femur under the left hand. Furthermore, the image reveals bruising on the
cheek just below the left eye. Bruising, according to Accetta, is completely part of the body image,
not at all like the bleeding wounds that left blood residue on the surface of the Shroud.
Instead, Accetta has shown by injecting nuclear isotopes into his own bloodstream that he can produce a similar image,
complete with 3-D information, in photos taken by the gamma camera doctors use to make images of internal organs.
"The amount of radiation in the skin and bones," Accetta said, "correlates to the number of pixels on the Shroud."
For his part, Accetta grew up Catholic but left the Church as an agnostic in his youth, convinced that belief in God was
"pretty much just a way to deal with mortality." In spite of his skepticism, he was intrigued by a radio talk on the
Shroud in 1992 by Dr. Alan Whanger, professor emeritus at Duke University and chief researcher for the Council for Study
of the Shroud of Turin (duke.edu/~adw2/shroud). He met with Whanger and began to collect information, enthralled by the
"clarity" of the materials available. Nevertheless, it was not the Shroud itself but his study of it that made Accetta
a believer, he stressed. To know more about the Shroud, he had to study Scripture and Tradition.
Doctor Allen Whanger of the sturp team describes the x-ray information on the shroud image in this video
Dr Alan Whanger's Technique -- Possible Image Formation - YouTube
